FWAAA

Indeed. What we have here is a gross overreaction to simple refusals to obey the rules. And the FAs certainly don't have a monopoly on "overactive imagination paranoia/hysteria." The sky marshals were drinking from the same cup that morning.

zoonil

I think this summarizes the pages and pages of discussion we have been having. It is a crisp summary of what happened!


Also, makes me wonder why this discussion is prolonging for so long, when discussions pertaining to 12+ flight diversions have quelled within a few posts (many didn't even last a day!)

yogimax

"Simple refusals to obey the rules." Think about what you have just said.

What in the world is a "simple refusal?" And how is the crew to determine the difference from a "simple refusal" and a "complex refusal?"

Sorry, but if don't obey the rules on an airplane, it cannot be "simple."

MikeMpls

When they know everything, have unspecified contacts in the airline industry, and "manage" prison riots, there is no need to check.

I wonder if it's not time for the mods to lock this thread until/unless some new information comes to light from Dutch or U.S. authorities?

Yaatri

Oh my aren't we touchy? Firstly I never called anyone stupid, even though I am sure there are stupid people, some are even members of the airline crew. But that is not issue here. Being there is not an issue either. If it is, then may I ask you, were you there? I still maintain that some crew are indeed guilty of stupidity, which, by the way is not the same thing is calling you or any one stupid. If you are taking it personally, it's your problem not mine.
As for going through training, going throuigh training does not necessarily mean the person "got it".

Armchair passenger or not, collective arm chair passengers is what airline buisness is all about. You have respect the passengers, even if they are Muslims. If you don't, you are guilty of overreaction to say the least.

yogimax

Of course, you have to respect all human beings - Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, whatever...

Inappropriate behavior on a flight, however, has nothing to do with race or religion. If it happens to be the case that ten Jews or ten Christians are refusing to turn off their cel phones after take-off and are admonished by a crew member, is that anti-semitism or anti-Christian bias? Of course not!
It is the behavior, not the race or religion, which is being judged!

Yaatri

Now what makes you invent what I might do when nothing was happening other than display of overreaction? If this were the first time or the 10th time when paranoia drove decisionmaking because someone who was eiither Muslim or looked like one, you might have a case.

Yaatri

Because certain FA's look at this as "class" struggle. They, and some others feel they have to attack anyone, put words in their mouth if the blatter critcise the behaviour of the crew. I suppose they will threaten to have a union vote next.

Yaatri

Simply splitting hairs.

yogimax

No, just the facts! Please define and give examples of a "simple" refusal to obey.

Never mind, I'm afraid you just don't get it...

skylady

If I recall, there was a case a few years ago on Southwest where the pax took it upon themselves to restrain a young man by stepping on his airway. Paranoia is not a one way street.

MarcoPolosFootprints

All I can say is that after speaking with AFA union representatives, there is a lot more to the situation than has been released to the media, as often is the case. Apparently the Dutch governement, at strong insistence by KLM, has kept the details repressed in order not to further negatively impact the airline industry. I can tell you from personal experience, I have been involved in emergency situations that were subsequently reported on by the media. It is almost surrealistic to read a third hand account of a situation in which you were personally involved, especially when the reporting bears little resemblance to what really transpired. Honestly, and I try to practice this as well, but when you are judging or commenting on a situation of which you have no first hand involvement, a reserved judgement is the most prudent course for intelligent people. Unless any of the posters here have first hand or insider knowledge of what transpired, judgements in either direction are irresponsible and simply are being put forth to further an pointless, argumentative exercise.

thezipper

This thread seems to have run its course and I'm closing it...

thezipper
NWA Moderator