Radiocycle

If the AFA and NW do not reach consensual agreement on a new FA contract how might CHAOS affect NW pax?

RC

starflyer

Probably the same way that it affected passengers on other airlines where the FAs utilized CHAOS. Why would it be any different?

fromYXU

Might I suggest that it would be like chaos....

Really, flying A to B to C, get to B on time but B to C is cancelled because of lack of FAs. That sort of nasty surprises. I think that CHAOS works best as a concept - no passengers wants to find themselves into. It hurts the airline, and ultimately the FAs find themselves out of a job. Because it was an illegal strike action they will get nothing in the end.

rwill11

Well if they want to hit NW in the pocket book, to get their point across loud and clear and at the highest cost. I would presume that there will be lots of delays and cancellations on all the asian and european routes. Otoh. these fa's with the primo gigs might be the 20% that didnt say hell no. should be an interesting 60 days.

humanoid94

I have just spent about 30 minutes trying to find some sort of scholarly analysis of the CHAOS strike against Alaska Airlines and there really isn't much out there. I did find a talk by some Wash U professors from 2003, which seem to indicate that CHAOS alone had little impact on AS operations or more importantly their ultimate settlement with the union.

My guess is that if the FA do make use of CHAOS it will have next to no impact on for the vast majority of travelers. Whether or not it causes people to book away from NW is open to debate, but this strike could certaintly be a catch-22 for the union. If it is not effective then they will have lost much of their leverage with the airline. If it is too effective, however, they may put NW in chapter 7 and suddenly be looking fondly at those $17/hour jobs with UA.

NWAFA

Here is an explanation of CHAOS. Mesaba's Flight Attendants are also in dire straits.

CHAOSTM
What is CHAOS? CHAOS - Create Havoc Around Our SystemTM - is a strike action that may
take many forms. It may call for a mass walkout for a day or a week at a time, with no
advanced notice to the company or to the passengers. We may strike a certain domicile or
a certain piece of equipment. We may strike the entire system for 15 minutes, or strike all
of the odd numbered gates in Minneapolis for a day. Or, as AFA did with success at
Alaska Airlines, we may ask Flight Attendants to walk off individual flights at random and
with no warning. CHAOS is a strategically planned and targeted set of actions designed to
use our strengths to put pressure on management.

The Railway Labor Act (RLA) is the federal law that governs labor relations in the airline
industry. The RLA is a different law from the National Labor Relations Act, which governs
most other industries in the United States. The Railway Labor Act is designed to deal with
the unique nature of the transportation industry. When it comes to labor disputes during
traditional (Section 6) Contract negotiations, the RLA calls for a process that includes a
30-day “cooling-off” period prior to a strike. Once that 30-day period is over, the RLA
allows the parties involved to engage in “self-help.” The 30-day cooling off period does
not apply in this situation as a strike is a legally permissible response to the Bankruptcy
Court rejection of our Contract. Striking is a form of self-help, and the RLA gives strikers
options that aren’t available to workers in other industries, such as intermittent strikes
(CHAOS) and secondary picketing. The Supreme Court of the United States has reinforced
on a number of occasions the unique authority that the RLA grants to strikers.

Why CHAOS and not a traditional strike? CHAOS maximizes our impact on management,
and minimizes the risk to Flight Attendants. Unlike a traditional strike, Mesaba
management will not be able to predict when and where we will strike. Management will
not know if we will conduct a mass strike, strike certain flights, strike certain cities, or
conduct a mass strike for 15 minutes. CHAOS also allows Flight Attendants to continue to
work and receive a paycheck right up until the strategic strike and then return to work
again. CHAOS protects against the use of re- placement Flight Attendants. For example,
roving one-day strikes at one domicile at a time would foul up the whole system, but going
back after a day would guard against the deployment of replacements. By selectively
striking only on layovers, at certain cities or on certain days when staffing is at a minimum
and there is a lack of available Flight Attendants, even a single striking crewmember could
shut down a flight. Targeted strikes against specific types of aircraft or specific routes on
a given day make it very difficult for the company to plan its schedule and react to CHAOS
actions.

Can I be fired for participating in CHAOS? Mesaba cannot legally fire Flight Attendants for
participating in a legal strike action. AFA will not instruct Flight Attendants to begin strike
actions until we are satisfied that the legal justification for a strike has been met. If
management illegally fires anyone for participating in an authorized CHAOS strike, AFA
will go to court and fight to get your job back. When Alaska Airlines Flight Attendants were
fired for participating in CHAOS, they were reinstated because the court found the CHAOS
strategy to be lawful.

How would I be notified that I am to strike? This will depend on where or when the strike
is to occur. If your flight is to be targeted, you will be contacted by an AFA representative,
either upon check- in at the airport or by telephone. If you are out on a trip, you may be
contacted by telephone at the hotel. If all flights are going to be struck, anticipate a major
media announcement from AFA. If a strike is called, you will be notified. There will be no
possible way for you to get on a plane and not know that a strike has been called for your
flight. We are not on strike at this time; only take action if you are notified by AFA to take a
specific action. AFA will also ensure that you are advised of when to return to work.

What should we say to passengers who have questions about CHAOS? When you are
working, don't discuss CHAOS with anyone onboard the aircraft, including passengers,
deadheading crew, pilots or fellow Flight Attendants. If a strike involves one of your flights
you will be given instructions for what announcement should be made. You are never to
walk off an aircraft if there are passengers onboard unless a minimum crew remains with
the passengers per the F.A.R.s. The remainder of the crew may leave the aircraft only
when all passengers have deplaned. Safety must never be compromised.

NOLAnwGOLD

OK for all of us that don't immediately know what these boyz and girlz are talking about:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...likm_nwachaos/

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...tonessb_chaos/

martin33

In the case of a major imposed change in terms of work, a strike is legal. Deadly to the cash-poor company as a whole, yes. Illegal? no, not this time.

DanTravels

On the other other hand (we've got three now), the FA's on those runs are probably the most senior and the highest compensated, and have the most to lose if the status quo changes for the worse... I haven't talked to large numbers of FA's, but the senior (25+ year) ones I've talked to told me they were voting (or had voted) no. I'd expect the 20% to be the young and hungry ones who're hoping the senior ones will quit and make room for them to advance.

Exleftseat

For whatever it's worth. Management and
FAs are doing this on OUR back.
We are the paying or mileage using customers
and all we expect is to be transported from A
to B. If we are loyal customers we will stick
with NW ( we want the miles, right? ). If
mileage accumulation is of no concern then
NW inevitably will lose some, and maybe very
valuable biz.
Who wins? I sincerely hope we will not lose
another carrier. Too many have disappeared.

ContinentalFan

Thanks for the information. I had wondered if the 'cooling off' period could be invoked; I thought not, since the executive branch couldn't get mixed up with what the judicial branch is doing.

Is there not a way to bring an airline grinding to a halt without having mass walkouts or the like? If FA's enforced the letter of the law, it could cause problems. For example, making sure that the weight limits in overhead lockers were enforced; checking for every issue on the plane that might require a mechanic to come on board, thus delaying the flight, etc. It could cause the airline to slowly grind to a halt.

For passengers, I know it's not fun to get caught up in these things, but I place the blame for the NW debacle at the feet of management. FA's and other employees are getting criticized, but it's really management that nurtured this mess over time.

sbagdon

I've heard that referred to as "work to rule", when referring to union labor. You do exactly what you're contract says, and not a bit more. Or, in this case, everything the contract requires.

Steve B.

dan1431

Preface: I realize that at this point any answers are educated guesses at best but, I figure that NW Flyertalker's would be able to give me the best educated guesses available.

How real is some form of CHAOS in July occurring? I have tickets booked for the end of July from FLL-SFO and I am somewhat worried about missing my connection in DTW(I have given myself 3 hours of time in DTW originally) either because the crew walks out on one of my segments or a crew causes issues down the line and prevents one of my segments from taking off on-time or some combination there of.

I would prefer to earn CO miles thus I went with NW(the ticket is refundable)but I have found a similar fare with UA on a US codeshare and could fly them as another option if the threat of CHAOS is very real. Normally I would not care if I had issues as I could deal with it day of departure but, I have to meet people in SFO to drive up to Sonoma and thus really cannot afford to be late.

Thanks again for your thoughts,
Dan

NWAFA

How real is some form of CHAOS in July occurring?




Very real.

jimc_usa

My goodness I already thought a work to rule was in effect!
It seems that some FA's have already caused me to believe that!