B.U.M.P Program
Feb 12, 2006, 4:20 pm
#16
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Originally Posted by wldtrvlr
Would you be so kind to post a link to that thread. I remember it also and although it is old, NWA's computers have not really changed that much in the last couple of years.
Many agents are unaware of all the programs offered by NWA and directions from a knowledgable source are always helpful.
Many agents are unaware of all the programs offered by NWA and directions from a knowledgable source are always helpful.
Feb 12, 2006, 6:31 pm
#17
Original Poster
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Updates
I have been to the airport, and have some (but not all) information.
HP does charge $50 for a paper ticket. I expect more on the order of $10-$15. But then again - who am I to set the prices. Anyway - after America West said that, I decided not to pay the $50 just to get hosed later.
So, I headed over the DTW World Gateway and joined the line... Even with the NE being disrupted, there wasn't much turmoil in the ticketing area. Once I reached an agent, I brought up the B.U.M.P program. Of course, she hadn't heard of it.
When I mentioned she might find more information at "GATO TKT BUMP" she gave me a hard look and said, "where did you find that information." Knowing the response, "oh, some guy/gal on the internet told me about it" would just torpedo anything I wanted, I mentioned a friend of mine was an agent and she told me about it. I don't know if she believed me, but she typed away and started reading. I suggest you tread lightly when mentioning what to look for it under. Everytime I mentioned that to an agent unsolicited, they got very defensive.
The line behind me was growing longer and we all know the staffing situation at airports these days - in the end, she said, "this is complicated, and I don't really have time right now to figure it out. The Reservations line can help you much better than I can. You should go call them". When I called the 1-800 res line, they said the "GATO TKT BUMP" code was an airport-only code, and wouldn't work on their system.
So - this is what I found out:
1. Yes, the program does exist and "Bring Us More Passengers" is the name. She had never heard of it.
2. "GATO TKT BUMP" is the correct page or reference in the computer AT THE AIRPORT. Apparently the 1-800 res agents use a "different" system so that code doesn't work on their system. The "rate desk" didn't know anything either.
3. It is only available on the same day of departure.
4. Only good for same origin/destination/stopovers. I asked about connections like PHX/MSP. She didn't say anything - I suspect that stopovers address multi-day stopovers rather than a connection.
5. She didn't ask about paper tickets - she asked if I had information about my ticket - I replied that I had the ticket # and record locator. That seemed to satisfy her.
6. She specifically said that America West was "eligible as part of the program".
Question for wldtrvlr - when you attempted this with the UAL ticket - did it take a long time for the agent decide if it could be done? Did the agent in IAD spend a while checking fare codes or calling anyone else?
Anyway - I'm not sure what I'm going to do tomorrow. The NWA flight that would work is at 9am while my HP flight is at 5pm. If I can't get on NWA, that means a lot of sitting at the airport. I'll let you all know what happens.
HP does charge $50 for a paper ticket. I expect more on the order of $10-$15. But then again - who am I to set the prices. Anyway - after America West said that, I decided not to pay the $50 just to get hosed later.
So, I headed over the DTW World Gateway and joined the line... Even with the NE being disrupted, there wasn't much turmoil in the ticketing area. Once I reached an agent, I brought up the B.U.M.P program. Of course, she hadn't heard of it.
When I mentioned she might find more information at "GATO TKT BUMP" she gave me a hard look and said, "where did you find that information." Knowing the response, "oh, some guy/gal on the internet told me about it" would just torpedo anything I wanted, I mentioned a friend of mine was an agent and she told me about it. I don't know if she believed me, but she typed away and started reading. I suggest you tread lightly when mentioning what to look for it under. Everytime I mentioned that to an agent unsolicited, they got very defensive.
The line behind me was growing longer and we all know the staffing situation at airports these days - in the end, she said, "this is complicated, and I don't really have time right now to figure it out. The Reservations line can help you much better than I can. You should go call them". When I called the 1-800 res line, they said the "GATO TKT BUMP" code was an airport-only code, and wouldn't work on their system.
So - this is what I found out:
1. Yes, the program does exist and "Bring Us More Passengers" is the name. She had never heard of it.
2. "GATO TKT BUMP" is the correct page or reference in the computer AT THE AIRPORT. Apparently the 1-800 res agents use a "different" system so that code doesn't work on their system. The "rate desk" didn't know anything either.
3. It is only available on the same day of departure.
4. Only good for same origin/destination/stopovers. I asked about connections like PHX/MSP. She didn't say anything - I suspect that stopovers address multi-day stopovers rather than a connection.
5. She didn't ask about paper tickets - she asked if I had information about my ticket - I replied that I had the ticket # and record locator. That seemed to satisfy her.
6. She specifically said that America West was "eligible as part of the program".
Question for wldtrvlr - when you attempted this with the UAL ticket - did it take a long time for the agent decide if it could be done? Did the agent in IAD spend a while checking fare codes or calling anyone else?
Anyway - I'm not sure what I'm going to do tomorrow. The NWA flight that would work is at 9am while my HP flight is at 5pm. If I can't get on NWA, that means a lot of sitting at the airport. I'll let you all know what happens.
Feb 12, 2006, 9:23 pm
#18
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by wldtrvlr
At one time NW had some HP coded flights, they may still. If that is the case they would almost have to have an interline agreement.
Last day to earn miles for travel on eligible Northwest Airlines flights 3/31/2006
http://www.nwa.com/freqfly/earn/airfl.shtml#americawest Effective March 31, 2006, Northwest and America West will no longer have a reciprocal frequent flyer agreement.
Last day to earn/redeem miles on America West 03/31/06
Last day for award travel on America West 03/31/07
Earning/Redeeming Miles
All America West-operated flights between the United States and Mexico/Canada/Alaska as well as Northwest-coded flights between Phoenix/Las Vegas and Los Angeles/San Francisco when connecting to Northwest Airlines flights to/from Asia.
Feb 12, 2006, 9:55 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Denver, CO
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used it on a continental eticket in sfo without a problem--they were able to pull the ticket over.. at lax was not successful (with a continental eticket)..this was oct 05.
Feb 12, 2006, 11:57 pm
#20
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,039
I've traveled DTW-ANC every summer since 2000 (my first trip was my high school graduating class's senior trip... I guess they were seeking a place where booze, sex & beautiful women weren't prevalent 
. ) I've never paid more than $350 out-of-pocket. DL (and sometimes AA) always seems to have the cheapest-of-cheap fares on this route... in fact I just purchased my summer ticket last week for less than $330; it's going for about $399 right now.
I usually seek out DL's 763 from ATL and sit in Y... I don't mind the trip, but if NW was going for the same price, I'd probably go with NW instead since EUA seems easy to get on this route (they always seem to be selling upgrades at the gate during the seasonal route's run).
. ) I've never paid more than $350 out-of-pocket. DL (and sometimes AA) always seems to have the cheapest-of-cheap fares on this route... in fact I just purchased my summer ticket last week for less than $330; it's going for about $399 right now.I usually seek out DL's 763 from ATL and sit in Y... I don't mind the trip, but if NW was going for the same price, I'd probably go with NW instead since EUA seems easy to get on this route (they always seem to be selling upgrades at the gate during the seasonal route's run).
Originally Posted by sbagdon
DTW-ANC *is* painful, fairs as high as $1800. If you've got the time or stomach for it, NWA has lots of availability via ORD-ANC, starting at $345 (save $2 for going through MDW). I looked at this as a domestic MR, accepting I'd have to hop through ORD/MDW to get there. Push the envelope, and you can get there for less the $500.
Last edited by Bagels; Feb 12, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Feb 13, 2006, 12:39 am
#21
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OAK
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Posts: 2,504
how does this program benefit NWA? If the ticket is not endorsed by other airline, how does NWA get money for the ticket? Whats to prevent other airlines from taking non-endorsed tickets if this can be an extra source of revenue?
Feb 13, 2006, 11:23 am
#22
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: fort worth, tx AA Gold,Best Western-Diamond, HH- Gold, Marriott-Silver
Posts: 2,737
Originally Posted by iaflyer
Question for wldtrvlr - when you attempted this with the UAL ticket - did it take a long time for the agent decide if it could be done? Did the agent in IAD spend a while checking fare codes or calling anyone else?
He was aware of the program but did not actually get to the point where he tried to take over the ticket.
At LAX a friend and I were doing CO MR's from LAX-MCI last year on the Z fares. He had an AA ticket from MSP-LAX-MSP (even though a NW gold) and I had a NW ticket DFW-LAX-DFW. As I went to check in we asked if NW could take over his AA ticket through the BUMP program and the agent was willing to do it, and knew about the program, but he did not have time to go get the paper ticket from AA (several terminals away at LAX). So with 2 attempts both agents were knowledgable and agreeable to do it, it just did not work out.
Feb 13, 2006, 11:27 am
#23
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: fort worth, tx AA Gold,Best Western-Diamond, HH- Gold, Marriott-Silver
Posts: 2,737
Originally Posted by amartin1979
how does this program benefit NWA? If the ticket is not endorsed by other airline, how does NWA get money for the ticket? Whats to prevent other airlines from taking non-endorsed tickets if this can be an extra source of revenue?
Topics such as this are disscussed in the older threads, but no one wants to post the link and I don't feel like searching so I will mention what I remember of the disscussion.
IIRC all the airline tickets are cleared through the same clearing house. Although endorsements are supposed to be checked for in the clearing apparently the $ is just dispersed to whatever airline submits the tickets. I assume that applies to both the E-ticket and the paper ticket.
With so many interairline agreements and people constantly being accomodated on other airlines (generally with endorsement) they must not pay much attention to it.
I have also heard that airlines are somehow "blocking" the e-tickets from different airlines to prevent widespread implementation of programs like this. So that at times you have to get the paper ticket. With the paper ticket in hand though it is much easier for another airline to honor it.
Last edited by wldtrvlr; Feb 13, 2006 at 11:30 am
Feb 13, 2006, 1:43 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 6
Ticket Acceptance Rules
Originally Posted by Ted Striker
I have learned a lot about fares and endorsements since the last conversation on this topic way back.
In order to get any money from a ticket (regardless of the carrier/flight/date/time on the coupon), ONE of the following must apply:
1. Coupon must be on 012 stock
2. Coupon coupon must show NW as marketing carrier
3. Fare must be fully endorseable (these hardly exist anymore)
4. Coupon must bear validated endorsement from marketing carrier*
* This is the complicated one. NW, like most airlines, have voluntary and involuntary endorsement agreements with any other related carriers. SkyTeam, for example has a blind endorsement waiver in place between its members (regardless of the reason for reroute/reissue, the coupon does not have to bear marketing carrier's endorsement). However, NW will have something like this in place with most codeshare partners as well, although probably not a blind waiver. For example, some agreements require there to be no local representation of the original carrier before NW can use the coupon without endorsement.
Now if NW tries to clear another carrier's coupon and none of the above apply, it's usually handled on a case-by-case or airline-by-airline basis. Working for DL at JFK, coupons needing endorsements (agents trying to be helpful would often put somebody on a DL transatlantic flight due to misconnection and pull an OA transatl coupon) would often be returned to the FTO a few weeks later because they failed to clear.
In order to get any money from a ticket (regardless of the carrier/flight/date/time on the coupon), ONE of the following must apply:
1. Coupon must be on 012 stock
2. Coupon coupon must show NW as marketing carrier
3. Fare must be fully endorseable (these hardly exist anymore)
4. Coupon must bear validated endorsement from marketing carrier*
* This is the complicated one. NW, like most airlines, have voluntary and involuntary endorsement agreements with any other related carriers. SkyTeam, for example has a blind endorsement waiver in place between its members (regardless of the reason for reroute/reissue, the coupon does not have to bear marketing carrier's endorsement). However, NW will have something like this in place with most codeshare partners as well, although probably not a blind waiver. For example, some agreements require there to be no local representation of the original carrier before NW can use the coupon without endorsement.
Now if NW tries to clear another carrier's coupon and none of the above apply, it's usually handled on a case-by-case or airline-by-airline basis. Working for DL at JFK, coupons needing endorsements (agents trying to be helpful would often put somebody on a DL transatlantic flight due to misconnection and pull an OA transatl coupon) would often be returned to the FTO a few weeks later because they failed to clear.
The rules you state above 1 through 4 are fairly accurate--as applies to international travel ONLY.
If a ticket is to be accepted by a carrier, the coupon(s) must specify the accepting carrier in the "Carrier" box or must have the carrier code "YY", which designates any carrier. If the accepting carrier is NOT named in the "Carrier" box, then it is the passenger's responsibility to get an endorsement from either the carrier named in the "Carrier" box or the issuing carrier, if different--in other words by the carrier they were supposed to fly on or by the carrier who issued the ticket.
Failure to get an endorsement for the coupon(s) may very well result in the accepting carrier not getting paid. There are many exceptions within the different world alliances, some having broad rules for acceptance of tickets, especially full-fare and under involuntary reroute conditions. But, even then, not all carriers within an alliance will necessarily endorse the coupons in question, nor participate in the endorsement-waiver program within that alliance.
Most of the Asian and Central/South American carriers are notorious for not endorsing coupons for customers, even in involuntary reroute situations, thereby putting the onus on the customer(s). If they refuse to endorse the coupon(s), the carrier that may have brought you in late is helpless to do anything for you, other than possibly providing amenities. Otherwise they would not only not get paid for the coupon, but would have to pay another carrier to get you where you are going, which is just not a wise business decision and would result in a substantial loss.
If you CAN get an endorsement, which must contain a stamp of some kind with the carrier's name or code, all restrictions on the ticket are overridden. Here's an example: say the ticket says "Non-Endorsable", but the carrier endorses it to another carrier anyway; the accepting carrier WILL get paid. But it MUST have the endorsement stamp on the coupon(s) being accepted--no verbal endorsements or handwritten endorsements without a stamp can be accepted.
Now that covers the basics of the international rules. As for domestic, it is very simple, and the above rules DO NOT APPLY.
Any ticket issued by a US/CA carrier, for space wholly within the US/CA, may be accepted by ANY US/CA carrier, without any endorsement of any kind needed, and the accepting carrier will be paid the fare value as shown on the ticket. Obviously, in involuntary reroute situations, on free/mileage tickets, the accepting carrier may want an endorsement on the coupon(s), but they can call and get a verbal endorsement from the original carrier, handwriting it themselves, although that is really not necessary. The accepting carrier can simply handwrite the involuntary reroute endorsement and take the coupon(s). All those little endorsement restrictions up in the upper-left corner basically mean nothing in this situation.
Rules on ticket acceptance for US/CA carriers has changed dramatically over the last few years, and it has become much simpler, although it seems this information has not been spread around very widely throughout my peers.
But put simply, if your ticket is made out to HP, and you go to UA or DL or AA or whoever, they can accept the ticket (if they wish to!) and will get paid the face-value amount shown on the ticket coupon(s). NO ENDORSEMENT IS REQUIRED. PERIOD. Nothing!!! They can simply take the ticket and put you on the airplane.
But, again, that is up to the accepting carrier. If you have a $39.00 ticket and want to move over to another carrier, where they are charging $200.00, they may refuse to accept the ticket or charge you the difference. And if you are changing dates, you will probably get charged the penalty fee of the carrier you are trying to fly. And, unless it is an involuntary situation, they are more than likely going to refuse to accept free/mileage tickets with no fare value.
But the point here is that there is no endorsement required for domestic US/CA travel when the ticket was issued by a US/CA carrier. You may get an argument from the Customer Service Rep or Supervisor, but the rules apply to ALL US/CA carriers--they WILL get paid.
But, please note that this all applies in a world of paper tickets. With the industry going entirely paperless in the very near future, this will not be as easy. The original carrier will have to "push" control of the coupon"s" to the accepting carrier, which they may not do in a voluntary situation (unless it is a full-fare ticket, and then they MUST, as there are no restrictions).
Your only option in this case would be to go to the original carrier and have them print the coupon(s) to take to the accepting carrier. However, I believe most all carriers charge to print E-tickets these days. In this case, it would be best to check with the carrier you want to fly with first and make sure they'll accept the ticket before you go through this expense--they don't refund your money once the ticket is printed! And in the future, you may not even have that option!!!
Trust me, though--if someone missed their AA flight or they don't want to wait for DL's later flight, and want to fly us, I take the ticket and put them on the airplane. It's money in our pocket and it certainly leaves the customer with a good impression. They'll certainly think about flying us next time!
Feb 13, 2006, 2:00 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Programs: CO Platinum HHonors Diamond Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,312
AWESOME first post laxjetbear! Welcome to FT and we hope you'll be around for quite some time to come. 
peace,
~Ben~
peace,
~Ben~
Feb 13, 2006, 2:44 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OAK
Programs: UA Gold MM / AS MVP Gold
Posts: 2,504
are the other airlines aware of NWA's BUMP program? If so, why arent they trying to stop it by making sure their tickets cant be used for this purpose?
Originally Posted by wldtrvlr
Topics such as this are disscussed in the older threads, but no one wants to post the link and I don't feel like searching so I will mention what I remember of the disscussion.
IIRC all the airline tickets are cleared through the same clearing house. Although endorsements are supposed to be checked for in the clearing apparently the $ is just dispersed to whatever airline submits the tickets. I assume that applies to both the E-ticket and the paper ticket.
With so many interairline agreements and people constantly being accomodated on other airlines (generally with endorsement) they must not pay much attention to it.
I have also heard that airlines are somehow "blocking" the e-tickets from different airlines to prevent widespread implementation of programs like this. So that at times you have to get the paper ticket. With the paper ticket in hand though it is much easier for another airline to honor it.
IIRC all the airline tickets are cleared through the same clearing house. Although endorsements are supposed to be checked for in the clearing apparently the $ is just dispersed to whatever airline submits the tickets. I assume that applies to both the E-ticket and the paper ticket.
With so many interairline agreements and people constantly being accomodated on other airlines (generally with endorsement) they must not pay much attention to it.
I have also heard that airlines are somehow "blocking" the e-tickets from different airlines to prevent widespread implementation of programs like this. So that at times you have to get the paper ticket. With the paper ticket in hand though it is much easier for another airline to honor it.
Feb 13, 2006, 11:04 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Grand Rapids
Programs: NW Plat, HH Sliver, Mariott Silver
Posts: 420
This is very interesting information. I am trying to go to SLC in the next month and UA has by fare the best fare. I can't get my company for good reason to pay an extra $200 for me to fly NW....... So should I try to use this program on the way out to SLC or just on the way back????
Feb 13, 2006, 11:44 pm
#28
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 355
Spot on, laxjetbear! Indeed I was in international ticketing, NOT domestic. It's so hard to admit that I missed such a huge set of rules.
I hear you about running around trying to get those endorsements after-the-fact. I got saddled with that a few times, and my success rate was very low! Aerosvit, Egypt and Turkish were pretty bad.
I hear you about running around trying to get those endorsements after-the-fact. I got saddled with that a few times, and my success rate was very low! Aerosvit, Egypt and Turkish were pretty bad.
Feb 13, 2006, 11:57 pm
#29
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Originally Posted by rashby
This is very interesting information. I am trying to go to SLC in the next month and UA has by fare the best fare. I can't get my company for good reason to pay an extra $200 for me to fly NW....... So should I try to use this program on the way out to SLC or just on the way back????
Feb 14, 2006, 1:26 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Programs: Priority Club (Platinum)
Posts: 166
In the end...
In the end, I didn't attempt it.
There were several reasons - there was 8 hours between the flight on NW and HP. Due to transportation to the airport, that would of been time sitting in the airport (old terminal at that!). Second - it's likely that I'll earn some or all of the miles in NW. Finally - I thought (correctly) that I could get to the airport earn and get exit row seats - which would be as nice as NW FC if I had been upgraded.
However, I felt like I was letting FT down a bit - although I hope that some of the information I got from the agent helps others.
I would suggest for anyone else trying this - get to the airport early and expect a lot of "oh, we have no idea of what you speak of" but with the information page listed earlier, it should make it easier.
There were several reasons - there was 8 hours between the flight on NW and HP. Due to transportation to the airport, that would of been time sitting in the airport (old terminal at that!). Second - it's likely that I'll earn some or all of the miles in NW. Finally - I thought (correctly) that I could get to the airport earn and get exit row seats - which would be as nice as NW FC if I had been upgraded.
However, I felt like I was letting FT down a bit - although I hope that some of the information I got from the agent helps others.
I would suggest for anyone else trying this - get to the airport early and expect a lot of "oh, we have no idea of what you speak of" but with the information page listed earlier, it should make it easier.