jinabe

Feels like I got ripped off, but NW reservation agents says it is not so... I still think I got short-changed

Recently, my credit card was billed $74.62 for a series of transactions indicated below.

Total value of original ticket (AZO-TUS) $449.96……(A)
PD887 Coupon $-75.00
Adjusted value/Credit card charged $374.96…... (B)

Total value of the ticket reissued (AZO-PHX) $399.58…… (C)
Price Difference $ 24.62…… (B-C)

Reticketing fee $100.00....(D)

Adjusted value $124.92....(B-C + D)

Minus $50 TCV I supplied -$50.00
============================================
$74.62 charged to CC

Yes, I know it is a long series of transactions, but that is how NW charged me $74.62 after I got the ticket re-issued. Here is my problem.

Northwest Airlines determined the price difference of these two tickets based on the new ticket’s value (C - $399.58) and the adjusted value of the original ticket AFTER PD887 Coupon has been applied (B - $374.96). So, price difference was determined as $24.62 ($399.58 - $374.96 = $24.62). My contention is that the above calculation method is incorrect. Instead, the correct method should compare the straight values of original and the new tickets, i.e. (A) $449.96 and (C) $399.58.


PROPOSED METHOD OF CALCULATION

Total value of original ticket (AZO-TUS) $449.96……(A)
Total value of the ticket reissued (AZO-PHX) $399.58…… (C)
Price Difference $-50.38…… (A-C)

Reticketing fee $100.00....(D)
Adjusted value $49.62 (A-C + D)

Minus $50 TCV I supplied -$50.00
==================================================
$0.38 NWA owes me

The proposed method produces a refund of $0.38. Please note that this is the same amount I would have received from NWA had I NOT used the PD887 coupon in the original ticket purchase. One of NWA reservation agents I talked to vehemently claimed that this method was not correct, I was “not making sense” and “didn’t know what I was talking about”. I have endured these humiliating comments and not being listened to, but was never able to get her to see the simple fact below.

Had I not spent the $75 PD coupon, NWA would have refunded me $0.38, as the above calculation shows. Employing NWA's logic (first calculation), I gave up $75 coupon value to NWA, and I now owe $74.62 to NWA. So, in short, I gave up the $75 PD coupon, PLUS I end up owing more money to NWA than had I not spent the PD coupon?

Intuitively, this is a flawed logic. It is flawed because the current calculation method used by NWA compares reduced ticket value of the original ticket (including coupon value) to a straight ticket value of the new ticket (not including the coupon value). NWA should figure out the price difference by comparing the two straight values, and not mix those apples and oranges.

Maybe I am wrong, but the NWA reservation agent and I could never get on the same page, so I gave up talking to her. In her mind, she must've thought I was just trying to rip off NWA. Hey, at least writing about it made me feel listened to. Sorry if I confused you all.

channa

I understand your frustration, but I believe what NW charged you is correct. Typically, once a coupon is used, it's used, and they're not going to give you an exchange credit for more than you actually paid.

Essentially, NW adjusted your original fare by $75 at the time of ticketing to lower your cost basis. So when you go to refund or exchange that ticket, you have the new lower fare to apply.

Similarly, say you were to purchase a $100 item at a department store, and used a 20% off coupon, for a total spend of $80. If you decide next week you no longer want the item, you wouldn't expect that store to give you a $100 credit because the item was "worth" $100 when you bought it. You paid $80, you get $80 back, but the coupon is gone since it's been used. It's that simple. Better luck next time.

steve64

Hi,

While I can understand where you're going with this and do think you have a point, I think I'll side with NW on this one.

Consider this scenario...
You buy a sweater from a given Department Store Chain and used a "10% off any item today only" coupon (Yea ... I had to take my Mom all over town for the Day After Thanksgiving sales ). The sweater was to be a gift to your spouse. He/she opens it but it'sthe wrong size/color/whatever. You take it back but the store is out of them. They will be happy to refund the price you paid, but you've lost that 10% off any item coupon.

I can't think of any company that also refunds the "benefit of any coupons used". While you dont specifically state that you wanted the PD887 applied to the new ticket, in essense that's what you're asking for (a $75 difference). I can't imagine any company ever calculating a refund the way you ask (give credit for the full price even tho you didn't pay full price).

Just my 38 ...err... 2 cents worth
Steve

themicah

jinabe, your proposed method of calculation would be absolutely correct if you'd used a $75 voucher toward the original ticket at the published fare. But you used a coupon to reduce the original fare, then paid the reduced fare. If you look at your original receipt, it will not show the $75 coupon anywhere, but will merely show the reduced fare as a "promo fare" (indicating that some sort of special discount was used to reduce it below the regular published fare).

It definitely sucks to lose the value of a coupon like this, but unfortunately that's how NW does it. There have been reports on this board before of folks using PD coupons, then changing tickets and being unable to recoup the value of the coupons. Sorry we can't be of more help.

jinabe

Hey, all:

The cool thing about this board is that people listen and explain it in the way that I can comprehend. I wish the NWA agent had done it like you three had outlined so simply and yet so clearly -- perhaps then I wouldn't have gotten so defensive and frustrated.

I suppose the way I was viewing the "ownership" of PD certificate is not what it actually is. PD is indeed a discount coupon that NW provided for me to lower the base fare, and once used it is gone and NOT recoverable. The latter part is frustrating, but now I that I liken PD to a store coupon, I see my assertion is not so reasonable.

Thanks all for helping me learn this.

johnp012001

Now, I look at the analogy differently. If I buy a sweater during a 25% off sale, and decide later I like a different sweater better and want to exchange it, should I get the discounted price back, but have to pay full price for the replacement? I think the store should give me either discounted credit towards the discounted price on the new sweather, OR full credit towards the now full price on the new sweater.

NOLAnwGOLD

again, i agree with everyone else, if you are exchanging the on-sale sweater for the same one but a different size, then even-exchange. BUt for a completely different sweater, that is not on sale at the time of the return/exchange, you should get the discounted price towards the cost of the new sweater.

that's why if i like 2 on-sale sweater but really only want one but not sure which, i buy both and return one later

RedRadioFlyerWagon

Jinabe, while I understand your frustation with this situation, I must voice my agreement with Channa, Steve64 and themicah. They give you a good comparison of a purchase at an airline vs a clothing store. They have provided you with a good analogy to the situation.

To make the case even stronger, the sweater on sale could be on the store shelf for weeks or months and never be purchased by anyone...and you could go back to purchase it if you want....with risks of course. This does not apply to the airline industry because you can not use your ticket on a product that no longer exists. (and if you know how to refund the full fare on a ticket you bought at a discount rate 10 days ago, please let all of us know.)

For some strange reason, we travelers expect more from an airline than we do of our favorite restaurant, clothing store, car dealer or most any other for-profit business. I have never understood this point of view. You are not alone in this situation...there are many other travelers and Flyer Talk members that are guilty of this heightened perception of the travel industry than of the imbalance in our expectations.

Bottom line....I agree with Northwest on this one. If you believe and expect good customer service everywhere you spend your money (including the airlines), you might consider calling NW back and asking if they can tell you the name and city location of there NW agent that changed your ticket on the specific day you mention in your posting. An apology to the agent for being so difficult would be appropriate here. (No, I am not a NW reservation agent.....just a regular traveler like others on this site.)

If you get through to the NW reservation agent that assited you on this transaction, let the person who assisted you with your reseveration if you can speak to his/her supervisor and give a positive review of the agent. I know this is a time-consuming suggestion but this would not only sets your concense free of guilt for the anger directed at the NW agent, but it also tells the airline that they need a better explaination of this policy...and lastly, its possible that the service from this particular agent might improve if you let them know your current feelings.

I am aware that this a late add to the thread but felt it was worth contributing my opinion to the group.

TRVLRZ

What if you wore the above-mentioned sweater on the original NW flight? Would there be a depreciation charge on the sweater or the NW discount?

Sorry, I could not help it. Great analogy’s, I even understood them.

RedRadioFlyerWagon

Hey thanks for the reply TRVLRZ. You made me laugh out loud.

jinabe

Hi, all-

Shortly before I became convinced that NWA's stance was more logical than my original assertion, I had already sent a letter to their Customer Care department to explain my viewpoint. In the letter I did mention as a sidebar that the agent's choice of words at times was inappropriate, citing the exact language used.

Today, I received a letter from NWA, along with 3500 mi. bonus credit, apologizing for the agent's behavior. Nothing in the letter alluded to the logic of refund logic I presented (which is fine by me because I no longer subscribe to it), rather, I was surprised to see NWA's attention to the little sidebar story about the type of verbal exchanges we had. I commend NWA for listening to customers' voice (even when he was not quite on the mark). ^