milesrus

Does anybody have the fleet count. I am curious how many of the DC-9's and DC-10's are still in service. With the price of fuel surely they are headed for the boneyard?

fromYXU

Check out this NWA website for fleet information.

azj

Here's a link to the investor relations section on nwa.com:

http://ir.nwa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111021&p=irol-fleet

It's a little out of date however. There are about 99 CRJs and more 330s in the fleet.

NW has been in a DC10 replacement program for almost a year now. Those 330s were aquired for the 10s eventual replacement. And as long as NW can operate the Dc9s for less than the cost of a newly aquired airplane, despite its fuel ineficiencies, the 9s are sticking around for their useful life.

SRQ Guy

On the contrary, I rather suspect that even with very high fuel costs it's cheaper to buy more fuel than it is to make payments on new aircraft.

kidvintage

JetBlue would probably beg to differ...........

doglover

I'm not sure how JetBlue figures in here. They are focused primarily on relatively long-haul, high density routes that aren't appropriate for a little DC9.

Also, as a relatively new company they have to *acquire* new planes no matter what. They simply don't have any option other than lease or buy.

doobierw

The numbers from YXUs link look fairly close....the exception being the 742 fleet. As of 10 May, there are 7 active 742s. There are rumors of a new cargo initiative coming down the pike soon, so some of those might show back up in the freighter column. A330-300s are now at 7. DC-10s at 22, with 2 to be parked this year. Total aircraft for mainline right now at 450.....expected to be at 454 at year end with retirements/new deliveries.

As an aside, Jet Blue apparently has very favorable delivery terms on their aircraft and are fairly much flying them for free right now.......when they have to actually start paying for their aircraft, Wall Street will get a surprise.....

doglover

The latest 10-Q has the fleet as of the end of March:

NW Fleet as of 3/31/2004

milesrus

It isn't only the high cost of fuel, but the maintenance and parts on planes built in the 60's and 70's. In addition the DC-10 requires 3 people up front.

TopDawg4OU

I wanted to chime in and say thank you to all who have contributed to this topic. I love fleet information and logistics and hope to work with this full time, professionally someday.
So I'm completely fascinated with how airlines manage their fleets and am just beginning to learn the logistics and financial purposes behind it.

chalf

Older planes are also entirely paid for and largely depreciated. As a result, the only costs associated with them would be the ongoing maintenance, crew and other operating costs. While these costs would be higher than for new aircraft, the economics apparently work out for NW. Acquiring new aircraft would entail some sort of financing (as we all know that airlines don't have the cash sitting around for these things), whether through some sort of secured borrowing, securitization or even straight debt or loans. I would expect that bringing new aircraft on-line also entails additional costs in terms of flight and ground crew training, maintenance bases, spare parts stores, etc. Again, the bean counters at NW have made a conscious decision that for them the older aircraft are more cost effective.

fromYXU

Another real advantage to owning your fleet is the ability to store aircrafts quickly without real impact on cost. Nothing hurts like storing an aircraft you are leasing.

As stated above, Jetblue is not currently paying the real cost of the lease, that comes later. They are aggresive right now with new routes in order to build their revenue base. Will have to see how it works out in the future.

SRQ Guy

JetBlue doesn't have to make significant payments on their planes yet.

azj

NW has a no brainer business plan when it comes to their fleet. They only aquire new airplanes if they will instantly help the bottom line. That said, they do throrough research for the a/c that will fit their missions (330 vs 777). Then they choose the a/c and get financing for it. So, every plane is pre financed once it is delivered. In the case of retiring the 727s and DC10-40s - it make more financial sense to replace them with 319/320s and 752/753s than it did to keep flying them. So they will do the same thing with the 742s, DC9s and DC10-30s. When it becomes cheaper and more profitable to operate a newly aquired airplane, they will do so. Until then, they'll operate the current fleet.

IMO the 742 is a very dynamic airplane for NWA. They're all basically owned. So they can park them at a whim - a la SARS. They've also got NWA Cargo to play with - and we all know cargo is more lucrative than people. So if NWA can't make money stuffing butts in seats, they'll drop the cash to retrofit a cargo door and the other necessary a/c modifications and stuff boxes and palates on their decks. That is genius.

It's very interesting listening to the investor relations conference calls. One can learn alot and listen to how NWA does business compared to their competitors.


AZJ

Alpha Golf

What I find interesting is the contrast between NW and the other majors -- NW seems much happier keeping planes much longer (the -9s, last ones with -10s). I don't mind at all, but wonder why the difference.