Coronavirus in Sweden
Aug 5, 2020, 12:30 am
#856
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The fact that so many of the, in their own eyes, tolerant and open minded middle class persons are the worst when it comes to this is an interesting topic but we'll move into /PR territory quickly if I explain my thoughts on that.
Aug 5, 2020, 3:27 am
#857
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I'm not sure how you can claim that Sweden "sees it as pandemic over" or "the propaganda in Sweden is as strong." This is, as far as I can tell, the first time that my personal opinion has been labeled "Swedish propaganda," and I'm not even Swedish.
The definition of pandemic is "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population." Right now, most residents of Sweden are living completely normal lives, going to work, shops, beaches and meeting their friends. In my home region of Uppsala, only 27 people are hospitalized due to covid now. That's about 0.007% of the population. The situation is similar in most other Swedish regions. I really have a hard time seeing how 0.007% can be called "an exceptionally large part of the population." And that number is decreasing day by day.
Vacationers returning from Spain won't affect Sweden at all. The virus has already run its course in Sweden, there hasn't been any significant import of the virus since the middle of March, and vacationers generally speaking don't come into contact with the local population in such a way that they will be infected.
Most pandemics are over in a month. This pandemic has lasted much longer because of the lockdown. Swedes that haven't been infected by now -- five months after the start of the pandemic -- won't be infected at all. Lockdown countries are in a different stage. In those countries, the virus hasn't run its course yet, and that's why there are falling numbers in Sweden and rising numbers basically everywhere else.
The definition of pandemic is "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population." Right now, most residents of Sweden are living completely normal lives, going to work, shops, beaches and meeting their friends. In my home region of Uppsala, only 27 people are hospitalized due to covid now. That's about 0.007% of the population. The situation is similar in most other Swedish regions. I really have a hard time seeing how 0.007% can be called "an exceptionally large part of the population." And that number is decreasing day by day.
Vacationers returning from Spain won't affect Sweden at all. The virus has already run its course in Sweden, there hasn't been any significant import of the virus since the middle of March, and vacationers generally speaking don't come into contact with the local population in such a way that they will be infected.
Most pandemics are over in a month. This pandemic has lasted much longer because of the lockdown. Swedes that haven't been infected by now -- five months after the start of the pandemic -- won't be infected at all. Lockdown countries are in a different stage. In those countries, the virus hasn't run its course yet, and that's why there are falling numbers in Sweden and rising numbers basically everywhere else.
People are free — regardless of citizenship — in Sweden too to be “more loyal than the king” or not even when it comes to the Swedish response to the virus. Not that freedom being exercised is freedom from consequences.
You’ve already covered that you’re from Norway and live in Sweden. I’ve also noted that I am not Swedish and am from the US.
Aug 5, 2020, 7:21 am
#858
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I'm not sure how you can claim that Sweden "sees it as pandemic over" or "the propaganda in Sweden is as strong." This is, as far as I can tell, the first time that my personal opinion has been labeled "Swedish propaganda," and I'm not even Swedish.
The definition of pandemic is "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population." Right now, most residents of Sweden are living completely normal lives, going to work, shops, beaches and meeting their friends. In my home region of Uppsala, only 27 people are hospitalized due to covid now. That's about 0.007% of the population. The situation is similar in most other Swedish regions. I really have a hard time seeing how 0.007% can be called "an exceptionally large part of the population." And that number is decreasing day by day.
Vacationers returning from Spain won't affect Sweden at all. The virus has already run its course in Sweden, there hasn't been any significant import of the virus since the middle of March, and vacationers generally speaking don't come into contact with the local population in such a way that they will be infected.
Most pandemics are over in a month. This pandemic has lasted much longer because of the lockdown. Swedes that haven't been infected by now -- five months after the start of the pandemic -- won't be infected at all. Lockdown countries are in a different stage. In those countries, the virus hasn't run its course yet, and that's why there are falling numbers in Sweden and rising numbers basically everywhere else.
The definition of pandemic is "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population." Right now, most residents of Sweden are living completely normal lives, going to work, shops, beaches and meeting their friends. In my home region of Uppsala, only 27 people are hospitalized due to covid now. That's about 0.007% of the population. The situation is similar in most other Swedish regions. I really have a hard time seeing how 0.007% can be called "an exceptionally large part of the population." And that number is decreasing day by day.
Vacationers returning from Spain won't affect Sweden at all. The virus has already run its course in Sweden, there hasn't been any significant import of the virus since the middle of March, and vacationers generally speaking don't come into contact with the local population in such a way that they will be infected.
Most pandemics are over in a month. This pandemic has lasted much longer because of the lockdown. Swedes that haven't been infected by now -- five months after the start of the pandemic -- won't be infected at all. Lockdown countries are in a different stage. In those countries, the virus hasn't run its course yet, and that's why there are falling numbers in Sweden and rising numbers basically everywhere else.
With a 7 day rolling average of 225 before this, I doubt the numbers are looking like coming down further just yet.
Aug 6, 2020, 3:37 am
#859
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I keep my fingers crossed. If I'd been an epidemiologist, I don't think that I would be willing to make such predictions in front of a TV-camera, but I'll take my chances in an anonymous frequent flyer forum! 
Because all of these were infected last week, long before I wrote that post, but they were only tested this week! HA! I got you! 
No, but seriously, the numbers have come down for quite some time now. Right now, it's easier to get tested than ever all over Sweden, and people are mostly living completely normal lives. I can tell you from my personal experience: In the final two weeks of March, the streets, restaurants and buses of Uppsala were almost completely empty. And in the end of March, the infection rate skyrocketed. Now, the streets, restaurants and buses are almost completely full -- in fact, much more crowded than in a normal summer, due to the fact that most residents have a staycation -- and "nobody" wears a face mask. So, based on those observations, you would expect ten times more infections compared to the end of March. But instead, we're seeing the totally opposite.
Compare that to other European countries, like the countries mentioned in the NRK article I linked to, where infection rates are rising rapidly, in spite of the fact that most people in those countries wear face masks.
There's actually some truth to your statement, "they are not Swedes." Immigrants have been heavily overrepresented among infected people, both in Sweden and in other countries. 140 people have been confirmed infected in Aarhus over the past week, and many of these have a Somali background.
No, but seriously, the numbers have come down for quite some time now. Right now, it's easier to get tested than ever all over Sweden, and people are mostly living completely normal lives. I can tell you from my personal experience: In the final two weeks of March, the streets, restaurants and buses of Uppsala were almost completely empty. And in the end of March, the infection rate skyrocketed. Now, the streets, restaurants and buses are almost completely full -- in fact, much more crowded than in a normal summer, due to the fact that most residents have a staycation -- and "nobody" wears a face mask. So, based on those observations, you would expect ten times more infections compared to the end of March. But instead, we're seeing the totally opposite.
Compare that to other European countries, like the countries mentioned in the NRK article I linked to, where infection rates are rising rapidly, in spite of the fact that most people in those countries wear face masks.
There's actually some truth to your statement, "they are not Swedes." Immigrants have been heavily overrepresented among infected people, both in Sweden and in other countries. 140 people have been confirmed infected in Aarhus over the past week, and many of these have a Somali background.
Aug 6, 2020, 6:07 am
#860
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I keep my fingers crossed. If I'd been an epidemiologist, I don't think that I would be willing to make such predictions in front of a TV-camera, but I'll take my chances in an anonymous frequent flyer forum!
Because all of these were infected last week, long before I wrote that post, but they were only tested this week! HA! I got you!
No, but seriously, the numbers have come down for quite some time now. Right now, it's easier to get tested than ever all over Sweden, and people are mostly living completely normal lives. I can tell you from my personal experience: In the final two weeks of March, the streets, restaurants and buses of Uppsala were almost completely empty. And in the end of March, the infection rate skyrocketed. Now, the streets, restaurants and buses are almost completely full -- in fact, much more crowded than in a normal summer, due to the fact that most residents have a staycation -- and "nobody" wears a face mask. So, based on those observations, you would expect ten times more infections compared to the end of March. But instead, we're seeing the totally opposite.
Compare that to other European countries, like the countries mentioned in the NRK article I linked to, where infection rates are rising rapidly, in spite of the fact that most people in those countries wear face masks.
There's actually some truth to your statement, "they are not Swedes." Immigrants have been heavily overrepresented among infected people, both in Sweden and in other countries. 140 people have been confirmed infected in Aarhus over the past week, and many of these have a Somali background.
Because all of these were infected last week, long before I wrote that post, but they were only tested this week! HA! I got you!
No, but seriously, the numbers have come down for quite some time now. Right now, it's easier to get tested than ever all over Sweden, and people are mostly living completely normal lives. I can tell you from my personal experience: In the final two weeks of March, the streets, restaurants and buses of Uppsala were almost completely empty. And in the end of March, the infection rate skyrocketed. Now, the streets, restaurants and buses are almost completely full -- in fact, much more crowded than in a normal summer, due to the fact that most residents have a staycation -- and "nobody" wears a face mask. So, based on those observations, you would expect ten times more infections compared to the end of March. But instead, we're seeing the totally opposite.
Compare that to other European countries, like the countries mentioned in the NRK article I linked to, where infection rates are rising rapidly, in spite of the fact that most people in those countries wear face masks.
There's actually some truth to your statement, "they are not Swedes." Immigrants have been heavily overrepresented among infected people, both in Sweden and in other countries. 140 people have been confirmed infected in Aarhus over the past week, and many of these have a Somali background.
Aug 8, 2020, 3:37 am
#861
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So, we finally have some concrete figures of GDP from 2Q 2020 to compare how different countries' economies have fared during the lockdown.
It's not surpirising that total lockdown countries have fared the worst. Italy's GDP has been set back to the level of Q3 1993, Greece to Q1 1997, Portugal to Q4 1998, Spain to Q1 2002, and France to Q2 2006. In these countries, we will likely see the implosion of the entire society within the near future. The totally irresponsible lockdown has ruined these countries.
More moderate lockdown countries like Germany has been set back to Q4 2010 and to Switzerland Q4 2012. These countries will also see a dramatic financial collapse. The governments will have to make very tough and hard cutbacks in the future.
The countries that fared best are those that remained more or less open. South Korea has been set back to Q4 2017, and Sweden to Q1 2015. The United States is back to Q4 2014 (although, with such a huge country, there's a huge difference between the individual states). Sweden must make painful cutbacks to welfare in the future, but not nearly as much as the lockdown countries.
It's not surpirising that total lockdown countries have fared the worst. Italy's GDP has been set back to the level of Q3 1993, Greece to Q1 1997, Portugal to Q4 1998, Spain to Q1 2002, and France to Q2 2006. In these countries, we will likely see the implosion of the entire society within the near future. The totally irresponsible lockdown has ruined these countries.
More moderate lockdown countries like Germany has been set back to Q4 2010 and to Switzerland Q4 2012. These countries will also see a dramatic financial collapse. The governments will have to make very tough and hard cutbacks in the future.
The countries that fared best are those that remained more or less open. South Korea has been set back to Q4 2017, and Sweden to Q1 2015. The United States is back to Q4 2014 (although, with such a huge country, there's a huge difference between the individual states). Sweden must make painful cutbacks to welfare in the future, but not nearly as much as the lockdown countries.
Aug 8, 2020, 5:45 am
#862
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Denmark and Norway’s numbers don’t count? Afraid of the comparison between Sweden and its closest Scandinavian neighbors that locked out the average Swede/Swedish resident for most of this summer?
Norway’s GDP numbers are out around the 25th of August.
Have you looked at the price performance of the Oslo housing market relative to that of the Stockholm housing market over the January-August period in local currency terms? In USD terms?
Norway’s GDP numbers are out around the 25th of August.
Have you looked at the price performance of the Oslo housing market relative to that of the Stockholm housing market over the January-August period in local currency terms? In USD terms?
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 8, 2020 at 5:51 am
Aug 8, 2020, 6:57 pm
#863
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So, we finally have some concrete figures of GDP from 2Q 2020 to compare how different countries' economies have fared during the lockdown.
It's not surpirising that total lockdown countries have fared the worst. Italy's GDP has been set back to the level of Q3 1993, Greece to Q1 1997, Portugal to Q4 1998, Spain to Q1 2002, and France to Q2 2006. In these countries, we will likely see the implosion of the entire society within the near future. The totally irresponsible lockdown has ruined these countries.
More moderate lockdown countries like Germany has been set back to Q4 2010 and to Switzerland Q4 2012. These countries will also see a dramatic financial collapse. The governments will have to make very tough and hard cutbacks in the future.
The countries that fared best are those that remained more or less open. South Korea has been set back to Q4 2017, and Sweden to Q1 2015. The United States is back to Q4 2014 (although, with such a huge country, there's a huge difference between the individual states). Sweden must make painful cutbacks to welfare in the future, but not nearly as much as the lockdown countries.
It's not surpirising that total lockdown countries have fared the worst. Italy's GDP has been set back to the level of Q3 1993, Greece to Q1 1997, Portugal to Q4 1998, Spain to Q1 2002, and France to Q2 2006. In these countries, we will likely see the implosion of the entire society within the near future. The totally irresponsible lockdown has ruined these countries.
More moderate lockdown countries like Germany has been set back to Q4 2010 and to Switzerland Q4 2012. These countries will also see a dramatic financial collapse. The governments will have to make very tough and hard cutbacks in the future.
The countries that fared best are those that remained more or less open. South Korea has been set back to Q4 2017, and Sweden to Q1 2015. The United States is back to Q4 2014 (although, with such a huge country, there's a huge difference between the individual states). Sweden must make painful cutbacks to welfare in the future, but not nearly as much as the lockdown countries.
2nd quarter in the US had an annualised negative growth of 32%, something the chart by itself struggles to convey. Of course a lock down vs a relatively open society has a different effect on the financial performance in both short term and long term. So will the human toll have as well.
I do hope that many countries will do a detailed and reasonably balanced studies on the actions taken, and impact it resulted in. To fully understand if they could have done better. The impartiality of those studies I can worry about. Though in the end, there will not be a cookie cutter, one fits all answer to this.
Aug 9, 2020, 12:22 am
#864
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Well, I didn't make this graph, so I don't know why Norway's and Denmark's numbers are not included.
Aug 9, 2020, 12:47 am
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Aug 9, 2020, 1:13 am
#866
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I haven't looked at those figures, but my gut feeling is that in USD terms, Sweden has fared better since NOK has lost about 10% compared to SEK in this period. But anyway, I'm not sure of the relevance, as housing prices are based on the future expectations of the majority, and the majority of people are always wrong anyway.
Aug 9, 2020, 1:22 am
#867
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Don't misunderstand me. I'd really like to see those numbers.
I haven't looked at those figures, but my gut feeling is that in USD terms, Sweden has fared better since NOK has lost about 10% compared to SEK in this period. But anyway, I'm not sure of the relevance, as housing prices are based on the future expectations of the majority, and the majority of people are always wrong anyway.
I haven't looked at those figures, but my gut feeling is that in USD terms, Sweden has fared better since NOK has lost about 10% compared to SEK in this period. But anyway, I'm not sure of the relevance, as housing prices are based on the future expectations of the majority, and the majority of people are always wrong anyway.
A strong SEK isn’t all that beloved by Swedish exporters, given what it means for their business. Although that comes down to their inputs and related import dependency for exporters of goods more than for service exporters.
Aug 9, 2020, 1:26 am
#868
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U.K. government report says that a net 13.500 people died because of the lockdown in five weeks from March to May.
About 16.000 people died from the lockdown. Among them are 10.000 that died because they were discharged from hospitals prematurely, and 6.000 that died because they didn't see medical treatment in time due to fear of contracting the virus at the emergency ward. They were basically scared to death because of all the fear mongering from the prophecies of a coronavirus apocalypse.
At the same time, 2.500 lives were spared due to factors such as a fall in air pollution and a decrease in road deaths.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ronavirus.html
About 16.000 people died from the lockdown. Among them are 10.000 that died because they were discharged from hospitals prematurely, and 6.000 that died because they didn't see medical treatment in time due to fear of contracting the virus at the emergency ward. They were basically scared to death because of all the fear mongering from the prophecies of a coronavirus apocalypse.
At the same time, 2.500 lives were spared due to factors such as a fall in air pollution and a decrease in road deaths.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ronavirus.html
Aug 9, 2020, 1:34 am
#869
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I would say that both the NOK and SEK are pretty weak. Some people talk about a weak currency as a blessing for exports, but they forget that it also means that investors are less willing to invest in that country and currency (I myself have only meagre savings in NOK or SEK), and a weakened economy overall due to the fact that imports are more expensive. Most Swedes don't see any of the increased export profits, but the price increases on imported goods make a big dent in their private economy, leading to less spending power.
Aug 9, 2020, 1:41 am
#870
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The SEK is near a 2 year high against the USD, and it strengthened against the USD during this pandemic. A stronger SEK makes for imports being cheaper than they would otherwise be, ceteris paribus.
The housing markets provide for meaningful economic indicators. And comparing their moves between these Scandinavian countries during this pandemic tell a story about how the national economies have done during this year to date.
The housing markets provide for meaningful economic indicators. And comparing their moves between these Scandinavian countries during this pandemic tell a story about how the national economies have done during this year to date.