nacho

Not that I know. Is there quarantine quarters in Sweden?!

Fredrik74

Nope.

Unless you count your own home.

GUWonder

About paying for taxis, not usually. Forsakringkassan reimburses some taxi fares for some people for healthcare reasons, but I don’t recall hearing anyone doing that to go from Arlanda to home due to being a positive case or presumed positive for this coronavirus. I did hear something about a bus being provided to get some positive and presumed positive skiers back from some airports to their homes, but I’m not sure if that was part of the privately booked transport, government-arranged transport or government-reimbursed transport.

I know people who seemed to go in and out of Stockholm without issues all of these months, and there didn’t seem to be any massive “wall them up” project in place from what I could see.

RedChili

Shops in both Norway and Sweden were open, so there was no difference there. Which means that Denmark was probably the only Nordic country with closed shops. But even though shops and supermarkets have been open in Sweden the entire time, they were more or less empty in March and April. Supermarkets were full, of course, but I would guess that supermarkets were full also in Norway and Denmark. When people stopped eating in restaurants and schools, most families actually spend more time shopping in supermarkets. So, I can't see how this could have been a factor.

Official gatherings were initially limited to 500 in Sweden, and then reduced to 50, but most places with much less than 500 people cancelled immediately. Although Denmark had 10 people, I don't think that the difference between 10 and 50 made much of a difference. Writing fines on the beach is just silly. The virus spreads far easier indoor than outdoor, so banning a group of friends from meeting on the beach or in the park doesn't really accomplish anything other than getting easy income for the government.

People's perception of covid-19 was much the same in all of Scandinavia. And a virus doesn't care about what your perception is. On the contrary, panic and fear lowers your immune system, so a population that feared covid-19 would at least theoretically be more vulnerable to the virus. But I know lots of Swedes that were terrified, too.

The government communications in Sweden was basically the same as everywhere else in Europe. When Trump banned all direct China-U.S. flights in January, everybody called him a racist and claimed that they would never do the same. And then in the middle of March, when they saw the T.V. footage from Italy, suddenly all of Europe panicked, including the Swedish government. They had daily press meetings telling the population how serious the virus is. There has also been lots of dissenting voices in Sweden the entire time, telling people that it's far more serious than the government says. I have several Swedish Facebook friends that have virtually done nothing else than spreading doomsday covid-19 posts since the middle of March.

So, no, I really cannot see how the slightly tougher lockdown restrictions in Denmark and Norway made much of a difference.

CPH-Flyer

On the 18th of April in interviews, Anders Tegnell was still arguing that he was aiming for herd immunity. That is not a different strategy than the rest of the Nordic region?

On the 18th March, Anders Tegnell still saw no need to close down buffets at company canteens, or have hand sanitiser ready before going to the buffet. Based on him inviting TV crews to make interviews over lunch at FHM's canteen.

The approach in Sweden has been far more casual, and only recommended, where as the other countries have mandated far more restrictions. There was an editorial in one of the news papers arguing just as there was no law against eating fluesvampe, it was the right approach to expect people to know how to behave.

I'd say the main difference in approach is probably that the other Nordic countries did not rely on the goodness of human nature, but made sure that there was laws to back up the necessary steps.

What I am not sure about in the Swedish steps, how much work from home was put in place? For a couple of months, basically everyone I know in Denmark were forced to work from home. Of course a number of functions needed to be carried out and can't be done from home, but apart from those types of jobs, people were not allowed to go to the office.

GUWonder

I saw some Swedish law firms had a couple of weeks where the admin staff was working from home and were sort of putting on a show of following the recommendations; and yet those same law firms had at least some lawyers working in the offices for all but maybe 1-5 weekdays during this year. I am sure some will try to tell me most or all those lawyers in those offices were maybe working on essential work that can’t be done remotely, but I’m not buying it given what I know of the practice areas.

By the way, it seems like a lot of Swedes were so annoyed by The NY Times article about the coronavirus outcome in Sweden that they tried to rip it apart (or otherwise wanted to pile onto supporting that effort). Amusingly, the attempts to tear it apart have already been shredded — not that it will convince people who struggle with objectivity and default to state action support. Bashing The NY Times and other major foreign media outlets for coverage of Sweden (on this coronavirus situation) has come into vogue in Sweden from the very crowd that are wholehearted SVT/SR fans. They are sounding a lot like the US President when it comes to the coronavirus situation and media coverage of such.

So when will the Swedish king be giving Anders Tegnell the Seraphim Medal or some other civil award for his gallantry in the face of this pandemic? Maybe it should be an award for chutzpah.

RedChili

I've never seen Tegnell argue for flock immunity, but I've seen him claiming that flock immunity would be a by-product of the approach. There's a vast difference between those two.

I don't remember when they closed down buffets in Sweden. Do you?

If Tegnell really said what you claim about hand sanitisers, it's irrelevant. Every single place in Sweden where people were gathering, was trying to buy hand sanitisers in the middle of March, but they were not available. In the end of March, a large shipment of hand sanitisers were confiscated in Poland on the way to Norway. Whatever Tegnell said or didn't say about hand sanitisers, the fact is that those places that could buy them had them available. But a lot of places in both Norway and Sweden (and I suspect Denmark too) had no sanitisers because it wasn't available. At my Swedish employer, people were stealing bottles and bringing them back home because of the fear of covid-19 and because the pharmacies didn't have any for sale to families. People all over Scandinavia were washing hands and using sanitisers as much as possible from the middle of March.

The difference between laws and recommendations wasn't that big. No Scandinavian country had a law about washing hands or using hand santisers. No Scandinavian country had a law about gathering at home. No Scandinavian country had a law about individuals staying at least one meter away from strangers. No Scandinavian country had a law about how many people could go on the same bus. No law about social distancing. No law about working from home. No law against celebrating birthdays at home. No law about not blowing on the birthday cake candles. No law demanding online shopping. No law forbidding elderly people from meeting their relatives. No law about coughing in your arm pit. No law about not touching your face. I could go on and on with examples, but the fact is that in both Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, most measures were only recommendations. And people followed these recommendations everywhere.

In Sweden, people were recommended to work from home if possible. It was up to the employer to decide whether it was possible or not, both in Norway and Sweden. Are you claiming that the Danish government made a decision forbidding employers to bring in their employees to their offices?

CPH-Flyer

I think a lot of people in many countries have gotten a new view of what can and can't be done as remote work. Especially here in Japan.

While a lot of SMEs in Japan continued to bring people to the office due to lack of IT infrastructure and traditions. I have been surprised at how far the big companies have gone to support the governments target in reducing the load of people in rush hour. We are still basically working remotely. Though our numbers seems to start moving in the wrong direction, so we might have to go to stricter again.

I don't see why lawyers can't do a very serious chunk of their work remotely, the lawyers I know spend a large amoubt of time working from home out side of office hours, so I am sure the secure infrastructure is there.

CPH-Flyer

I am asking what the condition in Sweden ended up being, in the end, both in Denmark and Sweden employers had to manage the specific situation. What I am saying is that basically, everyone I know was sent home by their companies. With of course exceptions of doctors, people working in supermarkets, etc. where it is impossible to work from home. I don't know how the situation was for Sweden, how common was remote work? That might have been one major difference in the number of social contacts in the two countries.

Fredrik74

It was the same here too. People were sent home by their employers. My employer neved closed the offices in Sweden(only in countries where legally required) but people were told they should work from home and 90+% do. A handful people on my floor have refused to work from home but this is probably because they are senior finance managers(and obsessed about how important they think they are). The rest of the office has been virtually empty apart from the few essential workers(we have a few of those).

The situation has been similar for all my friends and family. Almost everyone who's an office worker works from home.

CPH-Flyer

Clear. Same same it seems.
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nacho

I don't know if buffets are closed in Sweden but I have seen several salad by the gram buffet is closed in grocery stores. IMO there's a huge difference between DK and SE - not just how people behave, but policies are just different. To name an example: Grocery stores in Denmark has a rule that only one customer's stuff can be on the band at the till at a time.

I can see that people are keeping their distances when they shop and queue in DK. Regarding the "recommendation" - according to FHM they are like "regulations". I'm still puzzled because why can't they use a stricter term to make sure people follow their "recommendations"?

What's more frightening is that wearing a mask in Sweden can get you into trouble: https://www.thelocal.se/20200520/we-...ing-face-masks Somehow this has never made into Swedish media, and I wonder why.

My friends who use masks were harassed in various ways - being yelled at, coughed at. One reported that someone was taking a picture of her with her mask on.

Maybe it looks hilarious with mask on or it's useless or stupid, it doesn't justify reactions like this - it's just so wrong.

GUWonder

There was about 3-5 weeks this spring where a lot of office employees in southern and western Sweden were working from home most of the time for part of that period. It seemed like no one in governments was enforcing anything like that but a majority or super-majority of people were just following the recommendation anyway. In Stockholm, office employees were more likely to stay home than elsewhere in Sweden. But the public transit system during rush hour in the big 3 cities were often packed with people anyway going to offices, other jobs, school and so on.

RedChili

I checked it up, and it seems that buffets are still allowed in Sweden, if it's possible for the customers to pick up food without causing a crowd. In reality, though, I'm under the impression that all restaurants have closed down their buffets. People wouldn't eat at a buffet anyway.

I'm not sure if the band rule you're mentioning will have a positive effect. I don't see how a virus can transmit just because two people have their goods on the band at the same time. Both of them have picked up their tomatoes from the same shelf anyway. Something that would make a difference would be if all food was pre packaged, so that people can't touch fruit and vegetables that will later be bought by another customer. I would even say that this Danish band rule could make matters worse, as the lines will become longer, and people will remain in the store longer.

It would be really hard for the government to enforce which employer and which employee will have to work from home. That's basically the reason why working from home was a recommendation and not a law.

I would actually claim that most people cannot work from home. Among those that have to physically go to work are:

Health care
Transportation
Mechanics
Package, goods and mail delivery
Garbage disposal
Cleaners
Construction
Police, courts, customs, and prisons
Military
Shops and gas stations
Bakers, butchers, fishers, agriculture employees
Restaurants and catering
Security guards
Kindergarten employees
Teachers in schools that have physical classes

All of these sectors probably cover 90% of Swedish employees.

Even some office workers cannot work from home, such as people working in customer service that need to be connected to a physical switchboard. Also, banks would never allow their employees to work from home. Some people that need access to advanced programs, such as meteorologists, need access to their office.

CPH-Flyer

Danish teachers were in some cases working from home, and they certainly were working from home here in Japan. In Japan curriculum was continued, homework and assignments were assigned and online classes were held. Home work tasks were sent to the teachers for review, and feedback. Of children need to be a certain age before you can move to online classes, but with their use of IT tools to communicate with friends from a very early age, that certain age is probably lower than I would immediately assume.

Suddenly the time spent in front of the computer did have benefits.

Of course this does put some load on the parents as well, as monitoring on the home side is needed as well. But for my friends here in Japan it worked pretty smoothly. Though they would be the first to day it can't go on forever.

There is a huge back office part in both the police and immigration there is no reason why that could not be carried out from home. People will have to get used to not having the paper files, and work of electronic documents. Swedish courts installed a video conference network years ago to be able to have suspects appear in court with having to move them potentially huge distances from prison to court room. No reason why that could not be expanded to more of the court functions. Though something like this will put high requirements on the private residences of court staff, but at least facilities could be made to avoid bringing everyone in to the court room. My understanding from the judges I know, is that there is probably more office time than courtroom time anyway.

One thing I wil probably have gained from these months of working from home, I will print far less in the future, and review more on screen. Now that I have found good way to work with that. I think our assumptions about who can and can't work from home, has moved and will move further before we are through this.