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Coronavirus in Sweden

Coronavirus in Sweden

Old Mar 31, 20, 8:03 am
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer
Champagne is the item I stocked up on. I the end I'd not worry about being able to buy sustinence of some kind. But I could worry about running out of champagne.... Imagine having to get US sparkling wine, oh the horror.
In the time of a coronavirus, isn’t the hot import drink Corona or is it a cold Corona?

Maybe it’s time to drive to re with a car full of Corona in a cooler?

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 31, 20 at 8:09 am
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Old Mar 31, 20, 8:05 am
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GUWonder - I was going to PM you the delivery address for the toilet paper, but apparently you can't accept PMs any longer because you have too many... Delete some maybe?
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Old Mar 31, 20, 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer
Champagne is the item I stocked up on. I the end I'd not worry about being able to buy sustinence of some kind. But I could worry about running out of champagne.... Imagine having to get US sparkling wine, oh the horror.
It is called Champagne in the US. Even if it was made in New York City (Get a rope --- who got that reference?)
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Old Mar 31, 20, 12:06 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
In the time of a coronavirus, isnt the hot import drink Corona or is it a cold Corona?

Maybe its time to drive to re with a car full of Corona in a cooler?
What about taking a ferry to Gotland?

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Bus drivers in Sweden have been trying to shift passenger entry and exit through just the middle and or back doors of the bus. That gets in the way of counting passengers .... especially when the bus turns out to be close to full or full enough to impair aisle visibility to the back.

There are plenty of coughing people on the Swedish buses at least by measure of what seems to have gone on at some Swedish bus stops this morning. And most of them seem to be working age or retirement age locals who dont get commonly perceived here as immigrants just by looks.

The notion that Swedes dont play fast and loose with the rules is amusing, especially in the land where punishment for wrongdoing is a borderline joke .... more of a joke for some than for others. The rule at various places is if the person has symptoms, dont show up here for 2 days or something like that. But people try to toy with that too, as with the following example:

Using medicines to try to mask symptom is even being done to kids to send them off to school and daycares; and once the parents drop them off or the kids otherwise get to school, many of the parents/guardians just claim they cannot pick up kids until close to the usual pick-up times .... and the backup contact usually a Swedish grandparent or aunt/uncle may say they are unavailable or self-isolating. More likely to happen on the predictable days of the week.

I would love nachos take on what happens if daycares are closed in Sweden for the virus situation and it coincides with when the weather is bad. Maybe the demand for anti-anxiety medications would skyrocket from people who cant handle kids despite fully milking the Swedish system related to kids in a country where the practical burden of raising children is so little for so many?

No surprise that Systembolaget seems to have managed to be one of the highest traffic stores during this time, although I would be surprised if they arent struggling too.

Someone took this picture in a SL bus this morning.

A lot of parents should be working from home because the government has recommended to do so, it's the perfect scenario for those who want to get rid of their kids - save the commute and kids are still out of the way. Some one said 9 months after lockdown there might be a lot of newborns, I think it's the opposite - there might be more divorce because people see each other too much and the kids are driving them nuts

Originally Posted by fassy
Not a great fan of the Guardian in general anymore but this article sums it up pretty good:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ockdown-europe
Yeah some patriots/speech police think the Guardian is tabloid.

Originally Posted by JR67
People are starting to ask: are others stupid and paranoid? Or is Sweden doing it wrong?

Yes. On both counts.
Agree - there's no need to close borders, but if I have to pick one, I'd rather be paranoid.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by nacho
Yeah some patriots/speech police think the Guardian is tabloid.
Not sure what you are trying to say? That I'm a patriot and speech police because I do not like the journalism style of the Guardian and think they often drift to far to one end of the spectrum? That is a very bold statement and actually speech policing itself.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 4:10 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by nacho
I saw some footage on TV when they introduced it, there was a staff making sure no more than 10 people getting onto a bus from its first stop. I guess any driver should be able to count to 10.
Public transportation has been classified as a crucial sector for society to work (so that health workers can get to their jobs, people can buy groceries, etc), and because of that, most Swedish buses today don't let passengers board or disembark through the front doors, and the bus drivers don't sell any tickets, to reduce the risk of passengers infecting the bus drivers. Remember that most bus drivers in normal cases come face-to-face with hundreds of passengers every day. If all bus drivers would get sick, you would soon find yourself in a situation where the hospitals would be without many of their staff, and people wouldn't be able to buy food.

Also remember that many city buses stop at 30-40 various bus stops during a single trip. If a bus driver is going to make sure that he has maximum 50 people on his bus, he would have to get up and walk through the bus to count the passengers at many of the bus stops, and he would end up in arguments with people who are not allowed to board. Can you imagine how long each bus trip would be, and can you imagine how much spit (with potential viruses) would fly through the air for every argument? No, the risk of infections would only increase with the extremely long bus rides that all passengers would have to endure.

The first bus stop is irrelevant. On most buses where I've been a passenger, in any country, most passenger buses go from one suburb through downtown to another suburb on the other side of town, with the largest passenger count in the middle of the journey.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 4:25 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Will Sweden wake up before or after the 2020 death count from this exceeds the national number of annual murders by 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x, or 20x?
I fail to see in what way a comparison with the number of homicides is at all relevant, but if you want to play the numbers game . . .

The annual number of homicides is a bit over 100, with a rising trend in recent years. Let's say 100 for the sake of argument. Number of corona fatalities as of today is 180 (officially, could have been over or under counted in any number of ways, but let's not go there for the moment). Looking at it it from a dispassionate and disinterested statistical perspective, that's not even a demographic blip. The number of deaths of all causes in Sweden on an average day is about 250. Even if the total number of corona fatalities would exceed the number of homicides by 20x, i.e. reach 2,100, that would only represent a 2.5% increase in the annual death rate. That's still demographically insignificant, especially given that the increase will be transient, and will lead to a slight decrease in deaths in subsequent years (those who succumb to corona in 2020 will not die of other causes later).

Let me be absolutely clear: dying of corona sucks. Slowly suffocating strikes me as one of the more unpleasant ways to go, I would not wish it on anyone. There are lots of excellent reasons for taking sensible measures to limit or slow the spread of the disease, and for ensuring that as many victims as possible get the best possible medical care (now there's a challenge for Sweden's totally disfunctional health care system!). Which measures are sensible and which are not I don't think anybody can say for sure. I certainly can't. There seems to be a lot of trial and error going on based on best guesses, educated or not. Politicians are completely out of their depth and as clueless as Joe Schmo, and there's plenty of divergence of opinion amongst all the experts (real or imagined) out there. One thing is for sure though: the measures taken so far have caused staggering damage to the world economy. And yes, that actually matters too.

As things stand, I'm pleased that I'm not incarcerated in many of the impromptu police states that have suddenly sprung up left and right all over the world. I may come to regret living in Sweden, or I may not. The future will tell.

Johan
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Old Mar 31, 20, 4:25 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
In the time of a coronavirus, isnt the hot import drink Corona or is it a cold Corona?

Maybe its time to drive to re with a car full of Corona in a cooler?
I have never been a great fan of Corona (the drink), though I have been inspired to buy a few over the last few weeks. That seems to be a shelf space in the supermarket that is always well stocked.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 4:47 pm
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Originally Posted by JR67
It is called Champagne in the US. Even if it was made in New York City (Get a rope --- who got that reference?)
Yes, the uncouth usage of the term in the US has not entirely escaped me.

Don't get that reference....
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Old Mar 31, 20, 6:04 pm
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One of the most interesting pieces that I've seen about covid-19 is this:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3544826

"Low Serum Cholesterol Level Among Patients with COVID-19 Infection in Wenzhou, China."

It's written by a number of authors from Wenzhou, China, that found that there was "Low serum cholesterol level in the patients with COVID-19 in Wenzhou,
China." This may -- I stress may -- explain why so many elderly patients with high blood pressure are dying of covid-19. 75% of the dead in Italy had high blood pressure. Elderly patients with high blood pressure often take medication such as statins to lower their cholesterol. Cholesterol is important for the immune system to work properly. This could also explain why some elderly patients have almost no symptoms at all after contracting covid-19.

See also two Swedish experts who talk about the high risk factors on https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/l...coronasmittade

They're basically saying that researchers are puzzled about the fact that people with heart diseases and high blood pressure appear to be more vulnerable to covid-19 than people with chronic lung diseases.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 6:59 pm
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Originally Posted by fassy
Not sure what you are trying to say? That I'm a patriot and speech police because I do not like the journalism style of the Guardian and think they often drift to far to one end of the spectrum? That is a very bold statement and actually speech policing itself.
I'm so fed up with people reporting people and kick people out of a group because they are "negative/aggressive" or they simply don't like what the others are saying. Not sure "agree to disagree" exists in Sweden in general. It's so typical how an argument between 2 people starts and then it ended with mentioning SD or racist or right wing stuff (even the topic has nothing to do with either).

Originally Posted by RedChili
Public transportation has been classified as a crucial sector for society to work (so that health workers can get to their jobs, people can buy groceries, etc), and because of that, most Swedish buses today don't let passengers board or disembark through the front doors, and the bus drivers don't sell any tickets, to reduce the risk of passengers infecting the bus drivers. Remember that most bus drivers in normal cases come face-to-face with hundreds of passengers every day. If all bus drivers would get sick, you would soon find yourself in a situation where the hospitals would be without many of their staff, and people wouldn't be able to buy food.
Exactly - that's why you can't pack 50+ onto a bus (unless there are like 50 seats), and it's bad for everyone on the bus.

I did some googling and found this: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2020-03-10-nu...den-offentlige

Not everywhere in DK is able to do that: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-...kker-bekymring

Skanetrafiken abolished cash a while ago already - long before corona and now they cancelled the discount card and they said you can use your credit card to beep on the bus, a ride with like 3 stops costs you SEK 27 which is insane. A lot of people are really upset about the new system so they took it out on the bus drivers - I read that union for bus drivers in Skane told all their members to let people on for free if they feel threatened.

Now you can in practice ride the pagatog for free because they won't be anyone checking tickets because the ticket checkers don't want to risk getting the virus. The union of bus drivers in Sweden are already talking about half of the drivers might be going on sick leave.

The difference is in Denmark, you see someone is doing something - even though some doesn't work, but someone is trying. This is something I miss seeing in Sweden - there's no one helping to facilitate to help people to stick to the recommendations. Why don't they temporary lift skolplikt? That will help the packed bus to and from a lot of schools in the cities to make space to those who really need it.
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Old Mar 31, 20, 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer
I have never been a great fan of Corona (the drink), though I have been inspired to buy a few over the last few weeks. That seems to be a shelf space in the supermarket that is always well stocked.
Make sure you get a bottle of Virus vodka to go with it

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Old Mar 31, 20, 10:16 pm
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Originally Posted by nacho
Make sure you get a bottle of Virus vodka to go with it

I clearly will get that vodka if I find it somewhere. Though I don't use much vodka ever, I got a 1L Grey Goose as a gift back in December 2012, the main part of it is still left. No so for gin, that has a shorter shelf life. If that vodka is truly 750ML as declared, you get your Corona in mighty big bottles..... Impressed about that.

I did find a Lake Bajkal Russian vodka with pine nuts in it (actual pine nuts not artificial flavour) in my bar stash, I need to see what drinks that works well with...
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Old Apr 1, 20, 1:25 am
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Originally Posted by nacho
Exactly - that's why you can't pack 50+ onto a bus (unless there are like 50 seats), and it's bad for everyone on the bus.

I did some googling and found this: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2020-03-10-nu...den-offentlige

Not everywhere in DK is able to do that: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-...kker-bekymring

The difference is in Denmark, you see someone is doing something - even though some doesn't work, but someone is trying. This is something I miss seeing in Sweden - there's no one helping to facilitate to help people to stick to the recommendations. Why don't they temporary lift skolplikt? That will help the packed bus to and from a lot of schools in the cities to make space to those who really need it.
Well, a typical articulated city bus has about 48 seats with standing room for 98 according to this: https://www.dimensions.guide/element/articulated-buses

But if an articulated city bus should limit the number of passengers to 48 (or even lower), you would get the same problems as described above. No matter where you put the limit, if you do have a limit at all, the driver will have to check on each bus stop how many seats are available or how many people are in the bus before allowing people to board the bus, something that would take a lot of time, and both he and the passengers would be exposed to potential virus bearers for a longer time.

Also, during rush hours, I've sometimes seen articulated city buses being literally filled to the brim in Uppsala, i.e. around 150 people. I'm guessing that with universities and high schools closed (Uppsala has a lot of students), that this number is probably lower than usual right now.

But even with lower numbers, if you don't allow people to board the bus, you will have lots of people standing together in a huge crowd on the bus stop for a long time, waiting for the next available bus, and people fighting to get on the bus. If 100 people are waiting for a bus at a certain bus stop, and only 10 of them are allowed to board, you're going to have a huge infection risk for the people that are denied boarding. For some of the central bus stops in Uppsala, you can have up to 10 buses call at a single bus stop. Imagine if you have 100 people waiting for each of those 10 buses, and some of them have to wait an hour or two before there's a bus with enough available seats. No, in this case I would say that it's better not to try to limit the number of people on the bus at all. Let the people board the first bus immediately, and get on with it.

Buses in Uppsala stopped accepting cash several years ago, so that's not a problem here.

I don't think that skolplikt has so much to do with it. Most young kids go to schools that are close to their homes (at least my kids do) and don't need buses, they walk or take a bike. Kids in high school (gymnas) usually need a bus to get to school, but those schools are closed right now. Kids in classes F-9 usually don't take the bus anyway.

Here's the real irony of this situation: Uppsala was forced to reduce bus traffic on March 23 because there were so many sick drivers (https://www.ul.se/sidfot/om-ul/aktue...-fran-23-mars/), so that could actually lead to an increased infection risk for all passengers. I'm not sure if all the sick drivers are actually really sick, but Folkhalsomyndigheten has encouraged all workers to stay at home if they even have the slightest symptoms, such as a mild cough, a cold or a sore throat. So, what they're supposedly doing in Denmark, i.e. have extra buses, is completely impossible if the bus drivers actually follow the recommendations from Folkhalsomyndigheten. If bus drivers have a cold, and they follow the recommendations and stay at home because they don't want to infect their passengers, there will be more crowding on the remaining buses and a higher risk of passengers infecting each other.
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Old Apr 1, 20, 2:42 am
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Sure, and thats why driving demand down for public transit use at peak hours especially is critical. There are ways to alleviate the crowding and improve social distancing outcomes with public transit in Sweden, but the government is trying to do as little as possible to make sure it happens for this situation.

In other news, loads of Stockholmers have abandoned Stockholm to go to their cottages or wherever else they can settle in for a few weeks or longer. There are many more fully loading up at grocery stores in Skne. People who normally reside in the Hollviken-Ljunghusen-Falsterbo-Skanor area have even started to avoid certain grocery stores popular with Stockholmers and shifted to shopping in Svedala and places more off the beaten path instead.

Easter travel (or other) demand to go to Gotland at least seems to remain relatively strong.

SkiStar in Sweden has finally decided to close down all of its ski resort lifts as of Monday. It took them long enough.

Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 1, 20 at 2:49 am
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