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Coronavirus in Sweden

Coronavirus in Sweden

Old Apr 15, 2020, 4:14 pm
  #181  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Density, demographics, lifestyle habits, testing (of even the hospitalized & dead), mitigation efforts, timing and exposure to virus and viral load are not uniform.
No offense, but that's just a very partial list of possible factors, which doesn't get us much closer to an explanation.

Note that the number of fatalities in Belgium is is a shocking 40 times higher than in Greece, for a population that's only 10% greater. Even if every single factor you mention, plus a bunch of others, conspired against Belgium (not likely) it is still an astounding difference.

No doubt this will be carefully studied by all sorts of experts in due course. I await their findings with bated breath. As someone with a strong libertarian streak who values his personal freedom, I'm pleased to do so in Sweden (a socialist country I'm otherwise often all too happy to criticize harshly), and not a country that has incarcerated the entire population. The social democrats in Spain and Italy have taken measures that would have done Franco and Mussolini proud, and Macron has gone for a Gulag la franaise, trying to turn the whole country into a giant Le Vernet. Admittedly some of those politicians have belatedly realized that sledgehammering the economy with one hand and throwing billions of taxpayer money at it with the other is not the brightest plan they have ever come up with, so now they are trying to backpedal a bit. Problem is, they have painted themselves into a corner attempting to convince their populations to lock themselves up for their own and everybody else's good, so now they are frantically looking for some light at the end of the corona tunnel to justify loosening the reins a bit. Except for Macron, he wants to keep pounding the French economy to smithereens for another month. Not surprising, as I suspect his one and only ambition ever has been to surpass de Gaulle, Mitterand and Chirac in arrogance. Or even the Roi Soleil for all I know. A very challenging goal, but I would not put it beyond him.

Johan

Last edited by johan rebel; Apr 15, 2020 at 5:00 pm Reason: typos
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Old Apr 15, 2020, 4:46 pm
  #182  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Given Swedens population has been mostly trending downward In age in recent years.
Seriously?

Where on earth did you get that from? Just a wild guess? Wishful thinking?

You know what? SCB has all the stats online, just a few clicks away, and you can customize the data almost any which way. It's a cinch, but I've done the work for you:



As you can see, in recent years Sweden's population has not been trending anywhere in age. It's is as stable as it gets. If you want to look further back you can go do so yourself, but I've included the years with huge inflows of migrants, which is what is relevant here. That influx has not made the slightest difference. Quite possibly because all these ensamkommande have been hogging the limelight, yet behind the scenes they have been busy importing their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and assorted other aged relatives. It all evens out.

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Old Apr 15, 2020, 4:48 pm
  #183  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Stuffing people into more dense areas and accommodations may result in increased viral load risk and thus increased likelihood of serious harm and death with the virus.
Yep, and a less idiotic immigration policy would have resulted in a lot less stuffing.

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Old Apr 15, 2020, 4:53 pm
  #184  
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Originally Posted by RedChili
Although the trend perhaps has been downward in age in recent years, as you claim.
He claims wrongly, the evidence contradicts him.

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Old Apr 15, 2020, 5:21 pm
  #185  
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Originally Posted by johan rebel
Not sure what the difference is between an immigrant in quotation marks and one without, but they are indeed dying in disproportionate numbers.

- Somalis in Sweden (apparently overreprensented by something like 700%, which is a horrific figure).

- Blacks in the US.

- Orthodox Jews in the US and Israel.

In the two first instances the wacko woke are of course lining up to shout "racism", but they are wrong as usual.

When Religion and Culture Kill: COVID-19 in the Somali Diaspora Communities in Sweden

Do COVID-19 Racial Disparities Matter?

When it comes to Jews the woke maintain a studious silence, no surprises there either.

Johan
While the article does not mention all the specific diseases where African Americans and Caucasian are over represented, it does seem to me that the examples tend towards being affluent lifestyle driven diseases in the case of Caucasian over representation. Whereas Covid-19 and probably a number of other diseases where the African Americans are over represented is due to the inability to afford basic healthcare.
So I'd say that specific article is trying to gloss over a big problem in the US. Social disparity in the heathcare system. Whether that is systemc racism or not is another point.
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Old Apr 16, 2020, 3:02 am
  #186  
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Originally Posted by johan rebel
He claims wrongly, the evidence contradicts him.

Johan
I’m not in the business of making stuff up and engaging in petty insults or of even being angry and hateful. And SCB.se is what was used.

He or she, how do you deal with the following (other than to realize SCB is its own mess):
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Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 16, 2020 at 3:29 am
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Old Apr 16, 2020, 4:24 am
  #187  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
He or she, how do you deal with the following (other than to realize SCB is its own mess):
I'm really puzzled about how you get those numbers: I tried the same search now in both Swedish and English, and I get the same figures as Johan Rebel (although with one extra decimal):
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Old Apr 16, 2020, 4:48 am
  #188  
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Originally Posted by RedChili
I'm really puzzled about how you get those numbers: I tried the same search now in both Swedish and English, and I get the same figures as Johan Rebel (although with one extra decimal):
Sometimes it comes back with the numbers shown above and sometimes something different when making minor changes.

And this comes back at times when breaking it down by sex too
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Old Apr 16, 2020, 5:37 am
  #189  
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In Sweden, if someone is a confirmed or presumed case of this virus, are the other members of the household (with the confirmed or presumed case) prevented (by the Swedish government) from going to work?
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Old Apr 16, 2020, 9:23 am
  #190  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
In Sweden, if someone is a confirmed or presumed case of this virus, are the other members of the household (with the confirmed or presumed case) prevented (by the Swedish government) from going to work?
From what I know, no.
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Old Apr 17, 2020, 5:36 am
  #191  
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Originally Posted by nacho
From what I know, no.
That must be great for the public health when more and more offices in Sweden seem to have more and more employees back in the office. The nicer bikes seem to be showing up parked more and more often around office buildings than was the case earlier this week; and more and more car parking spots are being taken up for the office buildings this week than last week.

Sweden’s total number of dead from this virus so far as of yesterday was 1333, an increase of 170 from the prior day’s number. 90 minutes from now, there should be an update again for the number of dead with this virus in Sweden.

The case count In southern Sweden seems to be rising and rising along the Oresundstag train’s main trunk line from Copenhagen into Skne: Malmo, Lund, Hassleholm. And the southern Swedish case counts increasing almost seem to be akin to rush hour passenger flows coming off the train from Denmark — more getting off in Malmo than in Lund; more getting off in Lund than in Hassleholm; and then Hassleholm acting as a branch dividing traffic heading east and west.

Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 17, 2020 at 3:24 pm
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Old Apr 17, 2020, 6:02 am
  #192  
 
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Originally Posted by nacho
Don't think they are doing any right now because of the virus.
Oh yes they are, as a fresh victim for speeding 17KM/H over the limit. Receiving the usual treatment as if I had committed a real crime.

About parking - have you seen those microscopic newly built villa quarters (like 140 sqm)? They don't even have space for 2 cars in their driveway and roads in those neighbourhoods is only wide enough for a trash collection truck to go through. In those places visitors will have to use guest parking which might not be free or there are like 3 slots for 20 houses or something like that.
Yes, because building parking is going to add more cars on the roads which requires the government to spend tax payer money on infrastructure and roads instead of things they want to spend it on. Sweden still naively thinks that by not making parking spaces available, people will opt for alternatives. Even if those alternatives add anywhere between 1-3 hours to a one-way journey.

In Denmark there's a place called Oersted (close to the Fields mall), the kommun didn't plan enough parking for all residence and they actually stood up and complained and now Copenhagen kommun has done something to solve the problem.
Swedes would never speak up and Swedish municipalities don't cave for comments or protests.

I think the job situation in Southern Sweden might affect the illegals - either they don't have jobs anymore or they are more in demand because people don't want to pay taxes. Some said there's a high demand in delivery services, and they need people now (the problem is whether delivery jobs will still be there after the mess).
If Swedes would get used to actually getting things delivered to their houses instead of a ICA Maxi 14KM away from their homes then the demand will stay. The absurd practice of having a mail service that doesn't deliver mail or packages is ridiculous. The fact that courier companies have adopted that same practice is even more absurd. Especially during times of a pandemic nobody should be asked to queue up with others to collect essentials such as their deliveries.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
The economic damage from this virus situation in Sweden is going to really put the squeeze on Malmo schools. I wonder what additional barriers to entry Vellinge will try to put up on school kids from other areas. Border control at the bridge to Ljunghusen wont be sufficient for the Vellinge crowd on the Hollviken side of the bridge. Maybe border control near Tygelsjo?

Prepare the school kids for worse school meals.
Or start charging for education and stop providing free food at school like normal countries. Give folks the money back through tax reductions and put your taxes in line with other Western countries (not other Nordic countries).
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Old Apr 17, 2020, 6:26 am
  #193  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose


Swedes would never speak up and Swedish municipalities don't cave for comments or protests.



If Swedes would get used to actually getting things delivered to their houses instead of a ICA Maxi 14KM away from their homes then the demand will stay. The absurd practice of having a mail service that doesn't deliver mail or packages is ridiculous. The fact that courier companies have adopted that same practice is even more absurd. Especially during times of a pandemic nobody should be asked to queue up with others to collect essentials such as their deliveries.



Or start charging for education and stop providing free food at school like normal countries. Give folks the money back through tax reductions and put your taxes in line with other Western countries (not other Nordic countries).
Speaking up against Anders Tegnell’s “business (almost) as usual” approach to this coronavirus results in Swedes speaking up against critics of what is going on in Sweden. The fan club for Sweden’s ways at this time are quite an interesting mix of otherwise strange bedfellows. The trickle of people coming to play tourist (including VFR tourist) In Sweden at this time includes those motivated to support Sweden’s current approach to this pandemic.

Social distancing in Sweden continues to be a joke, including because of the kind of rubbernecking to be encountered when engaged in various routine activities. The rubbernecking with delivery of packages (and even some letter type mail) is a great case in point. And even as online grocery store orders are actually delivered to Swedish homes directly, the sort of interesting thing is that the stores can’t seem to handle a surge in online orders and delivery; and they mess up a lot in various ways (with some people not even knowing that their order is cancelled in full because one or more items is out or stock). Doesn’t it seem like packages/delivery/online ordering get mishandled at a much worse rate in Sweden than in say the US and Canada?

The inclusion of food at school — as bad as it is — and the “ban” on students bringing in outside food for school time meals may actually be a useful public health measure. It may sort of spare some kids from an unhealthy meal; and it at least means all kids in school have access to at least one baseline meal a day made available to them. A lot of kids unfortunately don’t get provided proper food even at home, and a lot of bad food habits come from home. And given that obesity is a major factor in who gets hit the worst from this novel coronavirus, and given that good public health measures at school too reduce long-term health care costs, the idea of scrapping public schools and included meals (which at least are to be set to a standard of some sort) should seem a worse idea now than ever before.

Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 17, 2020 at 6:34 am
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Old Apr 17, 2020, 4:54 pm
  #194  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose
Oh yes they are, as a fresh victim for speeding 17KM/H over the limit. Receiving the usual treatment as if I had committed a real crime.

Yes, because building parking is going to add more cars on the roads which requires the government to spend tax payer money on infrastructure and roads instead of things they want to spend it on. Sweden still naively thinks that by not making parking spaces available, people will opt for alternatives. Even if those alternatives add anywhere between 1-3 hours to a one-way journey.

Swedes would never speak up and Swedish municipalities don't cave for comments or protests.

If Swedes would get used to actually getting things delivered to their houses instead of a ICA Maxi 14KM away from their homes then the demand will stay. The absurd practice of having a mail service that doesn't deliver mail or packages is ridiculous. The fact that courier companies have adopted that same practice is even more absurd. Especially during times of a pandemic nobody should be asked to queue up with others to collect essentials such as their deliveries.

Or start charging for education and stop providing free food at school like normal countries. Give folks the money back through tax reductions and put your taxes in line with other Western countries (not other Nordic countries).
Did you speed in a 40km/h zone? Come to Malmo if you love to speed. I have seen police speeding all the time, so I just drive behind them they can't really give me a ticket.

Once I order tyres online and the closest pick up point was 40 minutes away! That's not free delivery. I had been paying school fee in an international school but it changed to crap so I had to move the kids to a public school to hang on. Just because you pay doesn't mean you get better education, they can suddenly cut teaching down to 2 hours math, english and science per week for grade 7-9 (IGCSE). Some parents just shut up and hire private tutor and school fee just to stay in a prestige school.

I think they can put money on healthcare, first buy a few ventilators, then a few ambulance.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Speaking up against Anders Tegnells business (almost) as usual approach to this coronavirus results in Swedes speaking up against critics of what is going on in Sweden. The fan club for Swedens ways at this time are quite an interesting mix of otherwise strange bedfellows. The trickle of people coming to play tourist (including VFR tourist) In Sweden at this time includes those motivated to support Swedens current approach to this pandemic.

Social distancing in Sweden continues to be a joke, including because of the kind of rubbernecking to be encountered when engaged in various routine activities. The rubbernecking with delivery of packages (and even some letter type mail) is a great case in point. And even as online grocery store orders are actually delivered to Swedish homes directly, the sort of interesting thing is that the stores cant seem to handle a surge in online orders and delivery; and they mess up a lot in various ways (with some people not even knowing that their order is cancelled in full because one or more items is out or stock). Doesnt it seem like packages/delivery/online ordering get mishandled at a much worse rate in Sweden than in say the US and Canada?

The inclusion of food at school as bad as it is and the ban on students bringing in outside food for school time meals may actually be a useful public health measure. It may sort of spare some kids from an unhealthy meal; and it at least means all kids in school have access to at least one baseline meal a day made available to them. A lot of kids unfortunately dont get provided proper food even at home, and a lot of bad food habits come from home. And given that obesity is a major factor in who gets hit the worst from this novel coronavirus, and given that good public health measures at school too reduce long-term health care costs, the idea of scrapping public schools and included meals (which at least are to be set to a standard of some sort) should seem a worse idea now than ever before.
Yeah the 67 deaths today gives the AT fan club a big booze. About school food: I don't know what other schools are like, but the 2 schools in Malmo that my kids went to have lunch included. They also have a "cafe" where you can buy cup noodles, toast, etc. sort of borderline ok food. Then the public school allows everyone over 12 to go out to Direkten/BK/McD to buy lunch since they are allowed to go out. Most kids bought things from these places because the public school lunch is disgusting. Protein replacement for meat at least once a week, soggy salad with unknown dressing. Remember Malmo is cutting budget like hell and at the same time they want to be great to the environment and various dietary requirements, so it's easy for them to just go vegetarian instead of no pork, no beef crap. No dietary or religious reason for not eating plant based protein so plant based protein it is for whatever they can.

It's different in DK, you can order food but it's insanely expensive. The snack option is like DKK 25 and if you want anything close to normal you are at least paying DKK 50 a day. 20 schools day a month then you are out 1000DKK per kid + school fees etc. and that's expensive.
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Old Apr 19, 2020, 3:43 pm
  #195  
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I wonder what they serve Jain students, as they are vegetarians who are restricted from eating some kinds of vegetables.

Deaths from this virus in Sweden went up (by 29) to 1540 since yesterday. But Swedish reports from weekends and holidays are unlikely to be complete since timely reporting is off when Swedes are more likely to be off from work. But it seems like the worst of the hit this season in Stockholm may be coming closer to an end, or so AT would have us believe.
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