LoveTravelling

Hi,
We are planning a trip to the Nordic countries in May/June this year. We are a couple in our mid-30's, and we will be taking my parents (in their early 60's) along as well. We live in Australia and visiting the Scandinavian countries has been on our bucket-list for quite some time. All of us are interested in nature, scenic beauty and sight-seeing along with exploring new places. After reading a few comments and suggestions on this and other forums, we decided to add in Finland and St Petersburg too to the itinerary, however since we have no idea about Northern Europe, we would appreciate feedback on my draft itinerary below, along with any other tips / recommendations / feedback you might have.


June 11 - Arrive in Copenhagen
June 12 - Explore Copenhagen
June 13 - Explore Copenhagen and take a ferry to Stavanger, Norway
June 14 - Explore Stavanger - night in Stavanger
June 15 - Travel to Bergen - night in Bergen
June 16 - Explore Bergen - night in Bergen
June 17 - Take the scenic train from Bergen to Voss and Flam via Mydral - spend night at Flam
June 18 - Explore Flam - then either travel to Balestrand or Stryn
June 19 - Explore Balestrand / Stryn
June 20 - Travel to Geiranger - night at Geiranger
June 21 - Explore Geiranger - night at Geiranger
June 22 - Travel from Geiranger to Oslo - either via scenic train or air
June 23 - Explore Oslo - travel overnight to Stockholm to save time
June 24 - Explore Stockholm
June 25 - Explore Stockholm
June 26 - Travel from Stockholm to Helsinki - night in Helsinki
June 27 - Explore Helsinki
June 28 - Travel from Helsinki to St Petersburg
June 29 - St Petersburg
June 30 - St Petersburg back to Helsinki
July 1 - Return flight to Australia


Questions -
- Is it advisable to go in May rather than June? We want to witness snow-capped mountains, however I've read that a few attractions are closed in May, hence I have pencilled in June in this draft itinerary
- Is it worth having a stop-over at Flam or is any other place advisable or do we skip this altogether? We are flexible for our trip to be between 15 - 20 days
- Do we really need to spend 2 nights in Geiranger - is there enough to do
- Should we toss this itinerary around, and rather take the scenic train from Oslo - Bergen, rather than the scenic train from Bergen to Flam? Which is the best route for scenic train
- Which is better - Balestrand or Stryn
- While travelling between capital cities, which is the best way to travel for example from Oslo to Stockholm, etc considering budget, ease of travel
We do not want to over-spend and have a tight/reasonable budget set aside for this trip.
Please advise, if we have missed any important scenic location or are spending far too much time in one place compared to another and which will be more worthwhile.


Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

ksu

June is probably better than May weatherwise, but note that the attractions not open in May might not be open in early June either: June 20 - August 20 tends to be the main summer holiday period here.

As for your suggestion to take a ferry from Copenhagen to Stavanger: there isn't one! Copenhagen has a ferry to Oslo, if you want to go to Stavanger, you'll have to head to Hirtshals in Jutland (on the "top" of mainland Denmark). This is a 5 h 30 min train journey from Copenhagen which probably be nice as you get to se "all" of Denmark. The ferry leaves at 20.00 from Hirtshals on June 13 (www.fjordline.com), so you probably should leave Copenhagen on the 10.54 train. Hirtshals is a day-trippy-touristy fishing village, so good for a couple of hours waiting. Note that the walk from the railway station to the port is couple of hundred meters. The ferry continues to Bergen after Stavanger (arr. SVG 06.30, arr. BGO 12.30). I think, with your rather crowded itinerary, I'd be inclined to drop Stavanger and go directly to Bergen.

The ferry from Copenhagen to Oslo leaves at 17.00 https://www.dfdsseaways.no/

Neither Flĺm, Balestrand, Geiranger or Stryn are particularly interesting in themselves. It iis the scenery that counts. In Geireanger I'd try to take a fjord cruise, i.e. on a ferry. But you should also research how you plan to get around. If you do not have a rental car, you should really research the bus and boat time tables very carefully. And here the difference between early June and late June timetable van be very noticeable!. E.g. Flĺm-Stryn only has two daily buses (only one on Sundays, and in the evening at that) you'll have to change twice and the trip takes 4 h 20 minutes. Timetables for buses and boats in Sogn og Fjordane (including Stryn, Balestrand, Flĺm) is at www.kringom.no

Oslo-Bergen is very scenic. The Flĺm line is a branch line from the Oslo-Bergen mainline, thus can be done from either Bergen or Oslo. You shold do it though.

Balestrand is better than Stryn, but on the same fjord as Flĺm..

As for night travel between Oslo and Stockholm, there is no night train anymore, and I would not recommend going by night bus

I might suggest a different routing. I am rather fond of the express boats in Norway and you can get a nice cruise on Sognefjorden this way:

June 11 - Arrive in Copenhagen
June 12 - Explore Copenhagen
June 13 - Explore Copenhagen and take a ferry to Oslo
June 14 - Explore Oslo
June 15 - Travel to Flĺm (train Oslo-Myrdal-Flĺm) - night in Flĺm
June 16 - Explore Flĺm - 15.30 express boat to Bergen night in Bergen
June 17 - Explore Bergen
June 18 - Explore Bergen,
June 19 - Explore Bergen, in evening (20.00) Hurtigruten to Geiranger (coastal steamer, should be booked quickly, some dates already sold out. www.hurtigruten.com)
June 20 - Arrive Geiranger 13.25- night at Geiranger
June 21 - Explore Geiranger - bus to Ĺndalsnes (AFAIK should be a bus by way of Trollstigen) - overnight
June 22 - From Ĺndalsnes: several possibilities: scenic train to Trondheim or back to Oslo. To Ĺlesund for Art Noveau architecture. Bus to Molde and then over Eide to Kristiansund to travel the famous Atlantic Road. Trondheim has trains/planes to Stockholm. Ĺlesund and Kristiansund both have airports with several daily flights to Oslo.

LoveTravelling

Thanks you so much for your detailed reply.


I would go ahead with your suggestion and drop Stavanger from my itinerary as it seems to be too much of a hassle and appears similar to Bergen anyways.


I am now considering flying from Copenhagen either to Oslo or Bergen to start the Norway leg of our journey. If Oslo - Bergen scenic train is better than the scenic train from Bergen, I would take that route and visit Oslo first rather that my original plan of Bergen first. In that case, instead of returning back to Oslo, after we visit Geiranger, we can hire car and drive to the nearest airport and fly directly to Stockholm, or as you mentioned take the scenic train to Trondheim and fly to Stockholm. What would you recommend would be the best option and itinerary routing?


Also, if I have to chose between visiting Balestrand and Biksdal glacier, which would you recommend is better and where should we stay that night (as in the map they appear quite far from Bergen or Geiranger) We will rent a car to travel along the scenic routes.


I was not aware that a few attractions might yet be closed in early June. Thanks for that information. Would there be a link to a website with a list of attractions that are closed in June? In that case, we can consider postponing our trip by a couple of weeks or visiting the other countries like Sweden, Finland first and then travel to Norway. Will we be able to see snow-capped mountains if we travel in late June?


Thanks once again for the useful links and pointers. I really appreciate it.

ksu

I think you misunderstood me. Flĺmsbana (the scenic railway down to Sognefjorden from Myrdal to Flĺm) is more scenic than the Oslo-Bergen line, but as Flĺmsbana is a branch line of the Oslo-Bergen line it is impossible to travel on the line without travelling on parts of the Oslo-Bergen line. The exception would be a R/T from Flĺm to Myrdal (the junction of the Oslo-Bergen line with Flĺmsbana) as Myrdal is only accessible by train. The Oslo-Myrdal part of the journey is IMHO more scenic than the Bergen-Myrdal part, but it is the Myrdal-Flĺm journey that is important!

One-way rentals can be very expensive here. If you are doing the Hurtigruten solution, I would actually recommend you not to get off the boat at Geiranger at all. Even though there are some nice views when you get up in the Mountains, the most interesting is the Fjord cruise. I would recommend you to go back with the ship to Ĺlesund (specify second stop when booking) and stay overnight there. Ĺlesund is a nice Art Noveau town, with many hotels (Radisson SAS and Thon Ĺlesund are very close to the quay), pick up a rental car in Ĺlesund and drive Trollstigen and Atlanterhavsveien before flying from Ĺlesund to Stockholm (connecting in Oslo)


http://www.briksdalsbre.no/

Choose Briksdal. You have already seen Sognefjorden in Flĺm. The link is to the Mountain Lodge, and the webpage also have information on transportation to the glacier (starting in May, but reservation only). The closest hotel other than the lodge (which only has a handful of rooms) is Olden Fjordhotel (haven't stayed there): http://www.olden-hotel.no/. Also not too far away is Hotel Alexandra in Loen, one of the most famous hotels in Norway. http://www.alexandra.no/no/framside.aspx Briksdalsbreen is a major local attraction. If the logde is full, I'd go for the Alexandra.


Don't know of any unified list. I would not gamble on snee-capped mountains that late. This has not been a snow-rich Winter, I'm afraid.

LoveTravelling

Thank you so much once again for your detailed reply. It is proving so useful and helping me plan my trip better.


We were hoping to see snow-capped mountains during our trip. Do you think, we should plan our trip a month earlier in May rather than June, if that gives us a better chance of viewing snow capped mountains?


In your knowledge, along our route, what attractions could we be missing out on, in the places we will be visiting, if they are closed? I'm wondering if I should give more importance to the attractions which will open later on in June Vs. scenic beauty ...


Based on your recommendations, I'm thinking of a revised itinerary as follows -


June 11 - Arrive in Copenhagen
June 12 - Explore Copenhagen
June 13 - Explore Copenhagen and take last flight to Oslo
June 14 - Explore Oslo
June 15 - Scenic train from Oslo - Mydral - Flam - night in Flam
June 16 - Flam - Sojnefjord cruise, then Express boat to Bergen,
June 17 - Explore Bergen - night in Bergen
June 18 - From Bergen take Hurtigruten to Alesund - pick up car in Ĺlesund
June 19 - Drive to Briksdal (night in accom wherever we get near Briksdal, eg Loen)
June 20 - Visit Briksdal glacier
June 21 - Probable drive to Geiranger
June 22 - Drive back to Alesund
June 23 - Fly to Stockholm
June 24 - Explore Stockholm
June 25 - Explore Stockholm
June 26 - Travel from Stockholm to Helsinki - night in Helsinki
June 27 - Explore Helsinki
June 28 - Travel from Helsinki to St Petersburg
June 29 - St Petersburg
June 30 - St Petersburg back to Helsinki
July 1 - Return flight to Australia


Thanks a lot for your help and assistance.

ksu

I think that your itinerary looks nice for the Norway part. Be sure that you take the Hurtigrute to the second port call at Ĺlesund, so that you get the cruise. The Hurtigrute Bergen-Ĺlesund is mostly a night sailing, so in order to get value for the money for the sailing, you should not get off when the ship calls at Ĺlesund the first time, but take the ship to Geiranger and back.

After Briksdal/Loen I'd drive to Geiranger by way of Stryn on RV 15 and then FV 63 (i.e. the non-ferry route as you have already cruised on the Hurtigrute. from Geiranger drive to Ĺndalsnes (FV 63) using the ferry Eidsdal - Linge, driving the most famous road in Norway, Trollstigen. From Ĺndalsnes it is an easy drive back to Ĺlesund.

I wouldn't necessary stay overnight in Geiranger, but might as well consider Ĺndalsnes. Note that it probably would be wise to prebook hotel rooms - refundable by all means! Hurtigruten and train Oslo -Flĺm MUST be prebooked as far in advance as possible. You might also have to prebook Flĺm-Bergen boat and Sognefjorden cruise.

If you intend to take Hurtigruten to Geiranger and back, you cannot do that in May - that part of the journey is only from June 2 onwards (the tourist ferry from Hellesylt runs in May, though). Trollstigen is a summer road only. It opened on May 20 last year.

tsastor

I'll continue from Norway with this idea:

June 22 - Drive back to Alesund
June 23 - Fly to Stockholm, explore Stockholm
June 24 - Explore Stockholm
June 25 - Explore Stockholm, take night ferry with Seaside cabin to Helsinki
June 26 - Explore Helsinki
June 27 - Take morning fast train from Helsinki to St Petersburg, explore
June 28 - Take hydrofoil to Peterhof, explore the imperial summer palace
June 29 - Explore St Petersburg, take last train back to Helsinki
June 30 - Take a deep breath in Helsinki
July 1 - Return flight to Australia

LoveTravelling

Thanks both for your kind replies.


I had a look at the Hurtigruten timetable and it does look good and fits in well with our schedule. We will take that and get off at the second port call at Alesund. Thanks heaps for your valuable suggestion.


Thanks tsastor for your suggestions. I had not thought about a ferry from Stockholm to Helsinki, that's a good idea. In your opinion, in Sweden, other than Stockholm, are there any other places which are beautiful and would be good to fit in?


For the Helsinki to St Petersburg route, I read that only if we arrive by cruise/ferry on the St Peter line, we can get the visa free entry to St Petersburg. Do you reckon if we travel by train as you suggested we can get the visa-free entry?


Thanks once again for all the information.

tsastor

Yes! I was thinking about that, but it seems that you want to see the stunning scenery of mountains and fjords in Norway and maybe be a little more urban towards the end of your trip? If you fly into Stockholm, then of course there are picturesque places in that area as well. If you arrive late at ARN, then maybe instead of heading straight to Stockholm, you would like to experience some nice Swedish small town "stämning"? IIRC Sigtuna is the oldest town in Sweden and beautifully situated by the lake. OTOH from Stockholm it is easy to take a day trip with a steamer or tour boat to the vast archipelago. See http://www.waxholmsbolaget.com/visitor/

No, visa free travel is limited to cruises. I would suggest getting a visa because the availability of suitable cruises next summer will be extremely limited. Also, you will need to spend a night on the ship in each direction.

LoveTravelling

Thanks once again. Yes, we definitely plan to visit the archipelago while at Stockholm.


I was hoping to book tickets online for the Helsinki - St Petersburg ferry, however the St Peter's line website doesn't seem to have that option. Is there any other easy way to book this? If the cabins are comfortable, we don't mind sleeping on the ship, compared to the hassle and paperwork of applying for a visa


Another question - Would it be better to hire a car in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, St Petersburg, Oslo or is public transport easily available and all the tourist attractions easy to get to via public transport? Should we buy some kind of coupons or cards to make it more economical?


Thanks for all the valuable information.

ksu

Do NOT hire a car. All the Scandinavian capitals have well-developed public transportation opportunities, there are high tolls to enter the city by car (at least in Oslo - have never driven in the others) and parking is very expensive. Buy a daily pass - there are possibilities to buy various tourist tickets which includes som admission to museums. Personally, I'd buy a 24 hour ticket from an automat. I do not know Helsinki and St. Petersburg, but I presume that the same applies there as well.

tsastor

Let me set this straight. At the moment there is no way I can recommend you to book this option. St.Peter line has sold their other ship and released conflicting information about their cruises next summer. I would not be surprised if they wouldn't take place at all. If they do sail, there will probably only be departures twice a week with a two night cruise on Saturdays and a cruise with two nights on board and one night in a hotel in St.Petersburg on Wednesdays. Once everything is confirmed, they will have online booking.

If you book now, there is a big chance you will be into a lot more hassle than applying for a visa would be. I got my visa through a travel agency. It involved my passport, a photograph and filling out a form. In a couple of weeks I had my visa glued to my passport. YMMV

LoveTravelling

Thank you both so much again. Very useful information.


I'm glad, I won't need to hire a car in the cities.


Wow, I had no idea the St Peter's line has so many issues. So other than this, there is no other way to travel visa-free to St Petersburg?

tsastor

Other than cruises, nope, unless you want to take your chances through the forests.

Kallio

Actually there is, but not from helsinki but rather from Lappeenranta through Saimaa canal. There used to be only cruises to formerly Finnish town of Vyborg but now ther have also cruises all the way to St Petersburg.

http://www.saimaatravel.fi/en/cruises-vyborg
http://www.saimaatravel.fi/en/visa-free-petersburg

Edit: looking more closely the actual cruise still goes only to Vyborg and tour continues with a bus to St Petersburg where you would spend two nights. But still e visa free way to visit St Petersburg and see little more of Finland as well.