Mauibaby2008

I pay $20 an hour to clean a 3 bedroom unit which is about $60 every time. ~$150 a clean? That’s just ridiculous ! I would do it myself at that rate ...

Finkface

It is in Hawaii and that is average. Friends of mine pay a lot more. I can't do it myself from Canada

Different markets, different prices. They charge this in Hawaii because a) they can and b) it is a huge market of vacation rentals so it isn't the same as, say, a condo in a small town or a not-so-busy market where you can find one person to come in and do it. It is all done by agencies who do a lot of units and can just swap out linens rather than having someone spend 2 hours doing laundry. And same day turns mean they have a 2-3 hour window to get it done.

Plus, reliability is huge when you don't live there. I need to know that it will be ready by the time my next guest arrives.

You would be surprised. I often go down myself after some of my guests and the place is so clean you could eat off the floor. And these are guests who stay for a month or more. But in any case, the amount of work for the cleaners is the same - change the beds, change the towels, clean the bathroom and kitchen, sweep and wash the floors and lanai, dust, put out toiletries and welcome basket etc. One night or 20 nights doesn't alter that.

jackal

The worst mess I've ever had from guests was that three-day rental I mentioned before.

I've had multiple 10-day guests that have resulted in my housekeeper texting me, "These guys left it so clean!"

But regardless, except for pig-sty people who leave grease stains everywhere and create a literal mountain of laundry, how does an overnight guest who leaves the property relatively clean save my housekeeper any time? She still has to:

Wash all the linens and other laundry
Scrub and sanitize toilets, showers, sinks, vanity, backsplashes
Clean mirrors
Scrub bathroom floor
Stage soaps and towels
Clean all the appliances, counters, cabinets, tables, and chairs
Scrub and sanitize sinks, countertops, and backsplashes
Clean (or at least wipe down) appliances
Clean inside fridge and microwave
Mop the kitchen floor
Put all dishes away and organize cupboards
Stage kitchen with towels, rags, soap, coffee/filters, etc.
Dust window sills, furniture, blinds, picture frames, knicknacks, lamps, etc.
Vacuum carpets in entire property
Vacuum furniture (and under furniture)
Wash the sliding glass door
Put new sheets/pillowcases on both beds
Wipe off patio set
Clean grill
Etc.

She's doing all of that between every guest. So, someone doesn't really use the kitchen much...she's still scrubbing all the counters and sinks and wiping off appliances and everything. Anything less and she risks missing something and then the next guests complain about the cleanliness of the property. There's not a lot of room there for economizing, unless perhaps it's a single person or couple who stays a single night and only uses one of the bedrooms and doesn't use the kitchen or touch the second bedroom or bathroom at all.

But then that introduces a whole host of complications. Do we not bill guests for cleaning until after the housekeeper reports back? Do we quote a cleaning fee up front but say it's only an estimate, or do we put in big letters that cleaning fees are assessed separately and later (and yet still deal with credit card chargebacks because the charge is unfamiliar)? How do we track all that and make sure the charge goes to the right person and isn't forgotten about?

Ultimately, the way it's being done now has become a convention in the vacation rental world because it works. It varies by market, but a separate and flat cleaning fee is the norm. It's the clearest for the guest and simplest for the owner, and it comes out close enough in 90% of the cases. And even in the other 10% of cases, the guests are still getting a better deal than they would in another form of lodging--a five-night stay might cost (pre-tax) $560. What kind of hotel is a guest going to find two rooms at $56 per night at? Certainly not one that not only offers huge rooms, brand-new high-end mattresses, jacuzzi tubs, and a large living space (with pull-out sofa) and full kitchen. Even the cheapest EconoLodge in my area is regularly more than that.

I could buck the trend and try to do something different (and "fairer") for the cleaning fee, but why would I do that when all my competition is doing the same thing and all it would do is significantly increase confusion and my workload?

rickg523

I use Airbnb - as well as other short term rental agencies - regularly. Whole place only. Any stay of more than 3 nights is usually booked as an STR.
I treat closing up the same as when I stay with friends or relatives. Strip the bedding, pull the duvet straight, pile the linens, including towels, in one place. Load the dishwasher. Toss out any remainder toiletries instead of leaving them in the shower. And collect or remove the trash (owner's choice). I'm not vacuuming or dusting, just leaving the place ready to clean.
I do this while making sure I've collected all my stuff. I get more spread out in a rental than in a hotel room.
I just do this because it's how I roll, but to me, it seems bad reviews as a tenant would be a constraint on my choice of property. I choose carefully and never book without good communication with the owner. Invariably, I'm booking very popular places, well located, comfortable, and well managed. These properties can pick and choose their tenants. The biggest hack for STR's is making sure the two parties are "simpatico." This is someone's place, not a hotel room, and the entire transaction - from selection, to booking to checking out - has a different context than booking a room. The more you try to treat short term rentals like hotel bookings, the higher your chance of disappointment.

ChinaShrek

Yes, if you want my business. Otherwise, I can stay in a hotel or a resort for a similar price. Better yet, pay me the $130 and I will clean the small one bedroom unit myself.

jackal

Frankly, I don't think most VRBO owners are looking for one-night stays.

10 one-night stays is 10 times the work for me as one 10-night stay. 10 times as many people to contact with directions and access codes, 10 times as many payments to keep track of, 10 times as many things that can accidentally go wrong (overbooking, dealing with damage claims, whatever).

To be honest, I'd rather have three three-night stays with a vacant day (90% occupancy) than 10 one-night stays (100% occupancy).

Yes, Airbnb handles some of that stuff better and with less work for the owner than VRBO/etc. (collecting payments, automatically sharing lock codes, etc.), but it's still work (and worry) for the owner when people check in and out.

So, with all due respect, most VRBO owners don't want your one-night stay--especially when you're now asking them to eat two-thirds of the cleaning fee and leave themselves with no profit. Even in the absence of a minimum-stay requirement, the cleaning fee helps to drive a longer average length of stay, which most owners want.

I've never been asked, but I've heard friends who are owners say that they've been asked by renters for a discount if they clean the property. For consistency's sake, that's not a good idea--owners depend on their housekeepers to keep everything at 100% all the time and rely on their housekeepers to be the eyes on the property in the owner's absence (both for maintenance issues as well as damage from guests).

Finkface

That's the thing. I don't. A one night stay is far more trouble than it is worth. My minimum stay is 7-10 nights,depending on the season. The only time I reduce it is if I have a small hole in my schedule and even then, the absolute minimum is 3 nights, and only if that's all I have open. I woud rather it sit empty than do a one night stay. So please, stay in that hotel - that's what a hotel is for.
Not a chance. I have no idea who you are and what your standard of cleaning might be. No way will I trust my reputation to you, nor would I do that to my next guests. What is my recourse if you just decide it's too much trouble to clean it or clean it well? Whatever it is, it is not worth the trouble for my next guests or the damage to my reputation for offering a first class product. Plus, where is the oversight if you decided to take some 'souvenirs' from my place? This is not some crappy room - it is a high end condo with top notch contents, including electonics that could easily be slipped into a suitcase. Or you forget to return the parking pass? The next guests pay the price for that if I don't have my cleaners come in and check that everything is ready for the next guests.

stc

It sounds like people should just agree to disagree about this. I for one don't see the charm or utility of Airbnb. My one experience was pretty horrible and I can't see it getting much better. If I can't get a room at full service hotel that cares about service, there is always Motel 6 or Red Roof Inn or Premier Inn or similar. But, my first choice will always be Starwood or Hilton or Marriott where I'm pretty sure to get consistent service and if I don't there is someone to try to fix it. In the mean time, I will continue to watch this train wreck.

jackal

I was in Montreal two weeks ago.

Hotels were starting at $150 per night for Super 8 or similar; $250 a night up to sold out for a Holiday Inn or similar.

I found an Airbnb with a kitchen and 3 beds in the McGill Ghetto for $75.

A few nights later, we ended up in rural Maine right as the leaves started peaking. Everything, even on Kayak, was either sold out or "call for availability." The few things that did show up were ramshackle motels that would normally go for $39.95--and they were $150. Airbnb found a room in a charming farmhouse for $45.

That's my recent experience as a guest. Charm? Not really. Utility? You betcha.

As for more upscale options and full vacation home rentals (which Airbnb is now working on, entering the market traditionally held by VRBO, etc.), it's a different demographic and crowd and appeal.

I have friends who have several vacation homes, one that is a stunningly beautiful house with 8 bedrooms. Sure, it rents for $500 a night, but try finding 8 hotel rooms at a decent property for $62.50 each--and then when all the family members there for the family reunion (or church groups or coworkers on a company retreat or whatever) want a place to meet, where are they going to go? Unless you rent a suite (which you won't get for $62.50), there isn't an easy place for everyone to gather: most hotels don't have living rooms with couches and chairs and tables, not to mention kitchens (cooking in the vacation home can significantly reduce dining expenses).

It isn't intended to compete with a hotel. It isn't intended to appeal to the solo business traveler. But whether a 2-bedroom condo or a 10-bedroom lakefront house with a view, it's intended to be a relaxing gathering place for families or large groups, and it's significantly more cost-effective and roomy than an equivalent number of hotel rooms.

My property is smaller, but my guests have mostly been families with multiple children, pairs of couples, adults taking an elderly parent along, and even two families traveling together (adults get the bedrooms and kids get the pull-out sofas). They're all people who appreciate the privacy of separate bedrooms, the space of the living room, and the availability of a full kitchen. (I've also had a fair number of people who booked my property because I accept pets.) Sure, most of them could stay in hotels, but they'd pay more and have less room.

It sounds like you're not the target market for a vacation home, and maybe too discriminating of a traveler to find value in the lower-cost options of a lower-end apartment or a room in someone's home. To each his own, but there is most definitely utility, and very often charm, in Airbnb (and other home rental services).

cbn42

Many of those things seem entirely unnecessary after a short stay. Does the mirror really need to be cleaned if no one has touched it? Do cupboards need to be organized if no one has used the kitchen? Does the carpet need to be vacuumed every time someone walks on it? I think there's a lot of room to improve efficiency here.

Yup, and that's really the bottom line. The "cleaning fee" really isn't a cleaning fee any more, it's just the "fixed" portion of the fee, along with the daily rate, which is the "variable" portion. Both portions of the fee are set based on market factors.

Depends on the type of property and location. In city centers, many apartments/rooms are typically rented out for a night or two.

Can you not send your housekeeper to verify that it has been cleaned? I'm sure that would cost significantly less. If anything has not, she could take a picture of it, clean it, and you could bill the guest.


I've had similar experiences. I can often get a self-contained apartment with living area and kitchen, for the same price as a room in a decent hotel. Alternatively, I can get a nice room in a private house for the same price as a dingy roadside motel.

I've used it for solo business travel, and know others who have as well. I think it will make inroads into the business market sooner or later, just as Uber started out targeting leisure traveleres and then attacked the business market later on.

jackal

Tell you what: come stay at my place, and I'll let the person before you clean my place if you swear and promise that you will give me a five-star review, no matter what.

The paragraph you quoted was prefaced by this:

We're sort of having two parallel conversations, here. Yes, city-center apartments do compete to some extent with hotels. Full-home vacation rentals tend not to. There's crossover both in market appeal and practices in renting both types of units, but there's also a large gulf between whole-home rentals in vacation destinations and crashpads for short stays and business travelers.

Back to your comments about do all those things really need to be done between renters, even for short stays by business travelers? Truthfully, yes. That's the standard in a hotel. Think of the negative reviews people post all the time about hotel cleanliness--carpet not vacuumed, spot on the mirror, stain on the quilt, hair in the bathtub, spot on the sink, etc. (and that's with dedicated housekeepers who have cleaning standards they have to meet). No Airbnb host (especially a Superhost) is going to want to risk a negative review for cleanliness by shortcutting the cleaning, especially if the guest is paying for the cleaning service anyway.

iahphx

It seems like airbnb is really pushing their new "experiences" offerings. I suspect this strategy will work -- to some extent. Traditional tours are generally pretty lackluster; this seems like an interesting alternative, IF the providers are good and you can figure it out on their website.

But, meanwhile, they seem to be neglecting their core business a little. I find their website clunkier to use than traditional lodging search engines. Are they afraid to have a button where you order properties by their ratings? Honestly, I'm almost never willing to consider any lodging that rates lower than 4.5 stars because I think it's too risky. Sorting the listings the way they "should" be sorted would save time and trouble.

mot29

Responding to both parts of your comment. I’ve participated in about 10 Airbnb experiences — Prague, Tokyo, and Sydney. And even lobbied to get a truffle hunting experience in Prague added that based on the number of reviews it’s gotten is a hit. One of my experiences in Tokyo was a bit of a dud and I put that in my review. Within a day, I got an email from Airbnb asking if we could talk — we talked about the problems and I got a refund. My other experiences have been at least good, and some great.

As to ratings — stars with Airbnb don’t mean much to me, you don’t see many low starred properties. I read the reviews — those are the key to finding good properties, I think. I have about 40 Airbnb stays starting with a trip to Paris in 2012.

cbn42

I will give you a good review if the property is clean. I really don't care if it was cleaned by you or the last guest or a professional housekeeper. However, if you want to charge me an excessive cleaning fee to make up for the other renters who make a huge mess, I will probably not book at your property to begin with.


That's a good point. AirBnB competes with many traditional lodging options, from downtown business hotels to serviced vacation rentals to youth hostels.

I'm not a host so I will defer to your experience on this, but I personally am put off by an excessive cleaning fee, especially if I'm staying for a day or two and not doing anything that would require more than minimal routine cleaning. Most of my rentals haven't had a cleaning fee, but maybe it's more common for the longer-term "vacation" rentals than the short-term rooms in cities.

ChinaShrek

I don't see any odious $125 cleaning charge at these properties. If places in Montreal and Maine offer these prices, condos in Hawaii or Florida can too. They simply choose not too.