Finkface

Not yet in Hawaii. It has been the subject of many proposed bills and many heated debates. Here is a good source for what has gone on in the state over the past year or two with regards to vacation rentals.
http://www.rboaa.org/april-28-2017-update/

Mauibaby2008

So I am an Airbnb host in a pretty famous area. Our city gets millions of tourists in the summer months. My unit gets about 125 reservations a year .. and this is my story

the review system is definitely flawed. I had this family stay in my rental unit for the last two nights. They were the nicest people, like I'm certain they are good people. But I have never in the last two years had my house so trashed. (I live elsewhere) The futon I had in the living room was in a different bedroom (this thing is big !) dishes over flowing, pots and pans have curry cooked right into the pans (why in the hell are you expecting me to do dishes for your family??? Like who are you???) all four drip pans destroyed, had to scrub under the top of the stove otherwise it probably would have caught on fire for the next guests if I didn't... trash literally everywhere, both bathrooms disgusting .. I could probably keep going on ..

this was my first time ever having to do dishes with SOS pads. It was horrible. Took me at minimum an extra two hours of cleaning which when I have time I am requesting they pay an additional $60.. I am charging $25 an hour for the two hours extra cleaning, and probably $10 to replace drip pans.

But naturally when they see my request for these funds their review is not going to be good. And THAT is another side of the review debate.

stc

So, I haven't read the entire 40 pages of messages in this thread, but I guess I have to agree that the Airbnb review system is flawed. I'm currently staying in a place which appears to have only 5 star reviews and about 6 of them. My traveling partner's parents run an Airbnb in Boston and I assumed she knew what she was doing (esp since she has stayed other places with Airbnb). Among other issues with this place:

It sleeps six but AFAICT there are 1 and 1/2 pillows and only ONE key.
The place has not been cleaned in a while - the bathroom has soap scum all over, inside of refrigerator is soon to be a science experiment, the host left a dirty pot on the stove, etc. (The Airbnb suggestions for host say to clean the place before every stay)
Dishwasher is full of apparently dirty dishes when we arrived
Kitchen trash was full when we arrived
One electrical outlet per room (in a major European city?)
On a very noisy street
The building elevator has failed twice already in the 3 days we have been here so far; the first time two children were trapped in it; we waited around until another resident appeared to call the service number
Although the listing didn't say, sheets and towels were apparently included, maybe because my partner asked. However, as my partner told me at midnight we were supposed to change the sheets ourselves. And the towels look like something I threw out 30 years ago (after college when I bought matching towels)
Etc.

Based on this experience, I am unlikely to ever use Airbnb again and I would leave a negative review, but my partner would probably see it and that is another problem.

heraclitus

Managing expectations is a bit of a tricky thing... I'd imagine most people think of airbnb as something of a hotel, where you can make a mess (within reason) and leave for the staff to deal with it. The fact that nearly everyone charges a "cleaning fee" only confirms that.

It probably works out for the most part, but if you get a really messy family it ends up nasty as with the situation you described. But if you're charging a cleaning fee, how do you really justify getting upset with the guests just because they left more of a mess than you'd care to deal with? I mean, it's one thing to replace a ruined drip pan, but beyond that?

I once stayed at a vacation rental in the Loire Valley where the hostess politely but firmly requested that we clean up before leaving. It took me a bit by surprise, but it was fine, we did it. But I have to say, I'd never knowingly book at a place where that was the expectation. If I'm paying $150+ a night I expect that I can leave a bit of a mess (again, within reason) behind.

mot29

So do you look at the reviews that hosts leave for guests before accepting a booking -- or even after and then cancel if they are negative?
I don't host -- my coop doesn't allow it, but I've stayed in 40+ airbnbs all over the world. And I've got pretty consistent positive reviews.
I do try to clean up a bit -- take out the trash when I know where it goes or I'm leaving on trash collection day, wash the dishes, wipe down the stove and sink and bathroom.
tom

travelmad478

I look at guest reviews before accepting them but in ~150 rentals, have yet to find a bad one—including for the one couple who were my worst guests. (I did, in fact, leave them a review clearly stating what the problem was.) My biggest worry is actually people with no reviews, because there are some who don’t really understand the whole Airbnb concept.

I rent rooms in my home rather than a separate unit, and I think that cuts down on the abuse and mess. People appear less apt to make noise/trouble/mess for the person they are seeing every evening and morning.

pinniped

This. Most VRBO/Airbnb/Homeaway type rentals I've done in the past include some fees, and usually one specifically called "cleaning fee".

Granted, moving furniture around, damaging the kitchen, and generally being piggish is way over the top. But if I'm charged a cleaning fee, I generally leave the place the way I would leave a hotel room. We're reasonably clean people, but I make no attempt to *clean* the place. I've already paid for that.

I've also done cabin rentals with no fees. Then we always do the dishes, clean the kitchen, strip the beds, start the sheet laundry (if that appears to be possible/desired), empty trash, sweep the place up, and make it pretty much ready for the next guest with the exception of throwing the sheets in the dryer.

ChinaShrek

That should have been firmly listed in the room description when you booked. If not, I would have done one of the following: 1) Left a negative comment when I wrote the review; 2) Said sure and left it a mess anyway; or 3) Refused and left. Any of these actions would have been supported by Airbnb.

Antonio8069

Cleaning fees are fairly ubiquitous in AirBnb listings. I have tried to negotiate it away w/o success. I would be very careful about "leaving a mess". AirBnB allows hosts to come back to you with extra charges for damage, etc i.e. paying the cleaning fee may be the lesser of two evils?

travelmad478

I actually ask people NOT to make the beds when they leave--it is more work for me to strip them that way--and they still do. It's funny. My cleaning fee is low ($15) and exactly what it costs for my housecleaner to do the room. I see no reason to negotiate on it. I also see no reason to negotiate room rates, which a couple of people have tried--um, no.

ChinaShrek

Fair enough. But why the $125 cleaning fees for a two or three night stay? That seems outrageous.

travelmad478

If you’re staying in an multi-room apartment or a house, $125 is not out of line as far as the actual cleaning costs. And the length of the stay is irrelevant—the place has to be fully cleaned, linens changed, etc. no matter how long you’re there (would you expect to sleep on sheets that hadn’t been changed if the person before you had only been there three nights? ) The same is true whether you’re “neat” or not. The housecleaner still has to clean no matter what.

I personally would build more of the cost into the rental rate if I were renting out a place like that—what I do agree with is that getting smacked with a $100+ cleaning fee is very aggravating when you are trying to compare the pricing on various options. Airbnb does now include the cleaning and listing fees in its totals when you do a search for specific dates, so it’s slightly less of a shock.

jackal

My housekeeper charges me $65 for a two-bedroom condo.

I charge my guests $65. I make no money on the cleaning fee.

It's the same cleaning fee because the housekeeper does the same thing regardless of how long the guest stayed--changing all the linens, cleaning the kitchen and bathrooms, vacuuming, etc. It takes her about 2-3 hours to do a cleaning, and the amount of time she spends isn't appreciably different based on length of stay, since all that needs to be done regardless. She prices her services fairly for her time, and I pass along that cost without any markup. It's also a competitive price with what other options in my market charge.

Why not build the cleaning fee in? Sounds nice, but it actually works out better for people not to, especially those with longer stays.

Cleaning happens once per stay--when the guest checks out. A guest who stays one night pays the $65 cleaning fee--so yes, it inflates the cost of the room by $65. But a guest who stays 10 days also pays only one $65 cleaning fee, inflating the cost by only $6.50 per night.

How do I build it into the cost of the stay without either taking it in the shorts myself on short stays or overcharging guests on long stays? Passing along my costs is just about the fairest way to do it, and it helps to keep things cheaper for guests with longer stays.

I guess I could raise the rates about $10 a night to offset the cleaning fee and then institute a minimum stay of 6 or 7 nights, but that hardly seems fair to people who want to stay for a shorter stay and is also still unfair to those who want to book for 10 days or two weeks. Instead, I think it makes more sense to charge the $65 fee regardless and then significantly discount short, last-minute stays that fill in the holes between the longer stays that were booked more in advance--for example, if my normal rate is $100/night but I have a 2-day opening coming up in three days, I might offer it for $60/night. Then, they're effectively paying $92 per night for a two-bedroom place--cheaper than they can get any decent hotel for. Win win: I fill my calendar and they have an opportunity to get a good price on something that would otherwise sit empty. I find the Airbnb channel is more receptive to last-minute bookings and short stays than VRBO/TA, plus their integration with Wheelhouse makes it easier to set up rules to do last-minute discounts, so I usually price Airbnb higher in advance than my other channels but then significantly discount the rates at the last minute. That way, I end up with fewer and longer stays for most of the month booked directly through my website or via VRBO/TA rather than a whole bunch of shorter, fragmented two- or three-day bookings from Airbnb, but I can usually fill in most of the dates anywhere from two or three days to a week or so before any open dates. I've been doing this since May and am currently sitting at about 90% average occupancy for the last five months.

As a guest, I personally don't care how much a host (or a hotel) chooses to make their base rate vs. their ancillary fees, as long as the total price is easy to compare across all options. I almost wish that some regulatory agency would compel OTAs and booking sites to (by default) show the total price rather than the nightly, pre-tax/fee rate (including resort fee, if applicable). The pre-tax price is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the total. How the property chooses to price their rate and fees is completely immaterial to what comes out of my wallet, and the way things are listed should reflect that.

I do like that Airbnb does that (includes everything in their search).

I don't ask my guests to clean (that's why I have a cleaning fee), but to help my housekeeper keep her cleaning time down (and my cleaning fees as low as they are), I do ask guests to strip the beds and start a load of towels, since that's what takes the longest to dry, plus the dishwasher and taking trash out to the Dumpster (especially when it's several large, heavy bags of trash--my housekeeper is reasonably athletic, but to ask her to lug several giant bags of trash is too much). 10 minutes or less on the guests' part before they depart can save my housekeeper 30+ minutes. Most other options in my market ask the same. I have not gotten a single complaint about that.

Beyond that, and beyond occasional texts from my housekeeper saying "These guys left the place spic 'n' span!" or "These guys left the place pretty messy," I don't care or even know how clean the guests left it, and I always leave guests a good review as long as they take reasonable care of the property. I've only once had a guest leave the property in a condition I would consider unacceptable, when they filled the large soup pot with oil and fried something until the oil was burnt and let the oil splatter all over the kitchen, plus they took literally all of the linens out of all of the closets and shoved their soaked/filthy/acrid towels on top of the entire pile of everything. Oh, and they also pulled all of the Christmas decorations out from under the beds and spread it and pieces from the board games all around the rooms. (Unruly kids, I guess.) I actually had to block off that night from any last-minute bookings, since it took my housekeeper two days to clean that property and run 11 loads of laundry (for what was I think a 3-night stay). Plus, there were several stains left on the couches and carpet. My housekeeper graciously didn't charge me extra, and we'll be replacing the carpet this winter anyway, so I didn't pass along any claims to Airbnb for anything extra, but I did leave the guest a negative review.

FWIW, I have traveled with friends (including other FTers) and I'm sometimes appalled at the condition they leave hotel rooms in. I don't strip the beds or anything (though I actually have family members who will do that), but I do tend to use as few towels as possible, put the couple towels I did use in a single place (ideally on the sink), avoid spilling water out of the shower, consolidate all trash in a single trash can or put it (if it's just the soap wrappers and a couple of receipts or whatever) on top of the desk so she can just grab it up in a single handful without bending down and not have to even change the trash bags, etc. I generally try to treat my hotel room like I'd treat staying at a friend or family member's place, and I think it's respectful and nice to make the housekeeper only have to deal with the bed and vacuum and then cleaning the surfaces and not have to chase all over the entire room picking up crap I've thrown everywhere, and seeing what some of my friends do and leave the room like a tornado has gone through it or like they're used to having servants at home or something leaves me shaking my head. And I'm not even a very clean person myself.

Finkface

My cleaners charge me $130 plus tax per clean. I charge my guests the exact same amount. I do not make one cent off of my cleaning fee. I am charged $130 regardless of whether a guest stays 1 night or 21 nights as the cleaners do the same cleaning job after every check out regardless of length of stay. Are you suggesting I should charge you, say $30 cleaning fee on a one night stay and eat the other $100 myself because you only stayed one night?

What he said.

cbn42

I imagine that, on average, a guest who only stayed one night will create less of a mess than a guest who stayed 21 nights. The former should be less work for the housekeepers, even if they charge you the same. Perhaps you could ask your cleaners to charge you based on the actual work done instead of a flat fee?