Sub two rule for connections at JFK?
Jul 8, 2019, 2:33 pm
#1
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Sub two rule for connections at JFK?
Hi everyone, I did a few searches on this topic but couldn’t find anything so apologies if I’m repeating another post...
Flying in to JFK last week from LHR, Virgin announced something about a different process or route for anyone who had a connecting flight under two hours from landing. As I was staying in New York and in full holiday mode, I took little notice!
However on Friday I will be connecting from MBJ en route back to LHR and have 90 mins between flights, all from terminal 4. Does anyone know what this rule is and what we should do? I am asking as I can’t find anything on google, and MBJ-JFK is a delta flight rather than VS, so may not have the same announcements.
Many thanks in advance!
Flying in to JFK last week from LHR, Virgin announced something about a different process or route for anyone who had a connecting flight under two hours from landing. As I was staying in New York and in full holiday mode, I took little notice!
However on Friday I will be connecting from MBJ en route back to LHR and have 90 mins between flights, all from terminal 4. Does anyone know what this rule is and what we should do? I am asking as I can’t find anything on google, and MBJ-JFK is a delta flight rather than VS, so may not have the same announcements.
Many thanks in advance!
Jul 8, 2019, 2:44 pm
#2
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Theres acshort connections line in T4 for immigration and customs. Really only beneficial to those that must see an actual immigration officer. Since you'll have had your ESTA used while entering the US on outbound, you can use the APC machines to clear on the return.
Jul 8, 2019, 8:01 pm
#5
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Last I heard, JFK is not one of the few US airports which have Intl to Intl baggage transfer so it appears you'd have to claim before customs exit and then redrop after exit.
Jul 8, 2019, 9:34 pm
#6
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90 minutes is tight, especially for a non-US/Canadian citizen, and probably just meets the minimum connection time. Is this all on one ticket?
I think the biggest bottleneck will be immigration (and potentially a 10-15 minute walk depending on what gate you arrive at), pending someone more knowledgeable chiming in on the "machines with child" question (or you can probably look that up at the US CBP website).
The bags will probably take 20-40 minutes to arrive on the carousel, you'll have to drop them off just outside customs, head upstairs, and re-clear security before heading to the gate.
But even in the event of a problem, VS/DL have flights basically every hour, so there are backups and you'll be protected on a later flight (pending available seats of course) if you purchased the ticket together (possibly even if separate, not sure how DL/VS work together on this).
I think the biggest bottleneck will be immigration (and potentially a 10-15 minute walk depending on what gate you arrive at), pending someone more knowledgeable chiming in on the "machines with child" question (or you can probably look that up at the US CBP website).
The bags will probably take 20-40 minutes to arrive on the carousel, you'll have to drop them off just outside customs, head upstairs, and re-clear security before heading to the gate.
But even in the event of a problem, VS/DL have flights basically every hour, so there are backups and you'll be protected on a later flight (pending available seats of course) if you purchased the ticket together (possibly even if separate, not sure how DL/VS work together on this).
Jul 9, 2019, 3:10 pm
#7
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90 minutes is tight, especially for a non-US/Canadian citizen, and probably just meets the minimum connection time. Is this all on one ticket?
I think the biggest bottleneck will be immigration (and potentially a 10-15 minute walk depending on what gate you arrive at), pending someone more knowledgeable chiming in on the "machines with child" question (or you can probably look that up at the US CBP website).
The bags will probably take 20-40 minutes to arrive on the carousel, you'll have to drop them off just outside customs, head upstairs, and re-clear security before heading to the gate.
But even in the event of a problem, VS/DL have flights basically every hour, so there are backups and you'll be protected on a later flight (pending available seats of course) if you purchased the ticket together (possibly even if separate, not sure how DL/VS work together on this).
I think the biggest bottleneck will be immigration (and potentially a 10-15 minute walk depending on what gate you arrive at), pending someone more knowledgeable chiming in on the "machines with child" question (or you can probably look that up at the US CBP website).
The bags will probably take 20-40 minutes to arrive on the carousel, you'll have to drop them off just outside customs, head upstairs, and re-clear security before heading to the gate.
But even in the event of a problem, VS/DL have flights basically every hour, so there are backups and you'll be protected on a later flight (pending available seats of course) if you purchased the ticket together (possibly even if separate, not sure how DL/VS work together on this).
Also theres no need to go upstairs for security. Theres a checkpoint downstairs by bag recheck. However if its backed up, going upstairs will be quicker.
Jul 9, 2019, 3:13 pm
#8
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APC machine isnt an egate. Instead you file out your form on the machine and it quickly makes a determination for officer if you need to be really questioned or just waived on through.
Jul 9, 2019, 7:10 pm
#9
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Thanks both, it’s a package and booked as Virgin Atlantic, but asa a codeshare with delta for the first leg. As pointed out I assume we will be placed on a later flight should we be delayed as the 7pm is one of the first VS out of JFK. I’m not sure how full these flights get as there are c.10 between BA and VS alone, but our outbound was close to capacity.
Jul 9, 2019, 7:11 pm
#10
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Something else I forgot from a few days ago! Yes I remember the machines and I managed to pick my daughter up for the pic, in fact it was my ticket that got the dreaded cross through it!
Jul 9, 2019, 10:32 pm
#11
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Thanks both, it’s a package and booked as Virgin Atlantic, but asa a codeshare with delta for the first leg. As pointed out I assume we will be placed on a later flight should we be delayed as the 7pm is one of the first VS out of JFK. I’m not sure how full these flights get as there are c.10 between BA and VS alone, but our outbound was close to capacity.
Jul 10, 2019, 12:53 pm
#12
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Great idea thanks; not expecting delays though I saw something about possible tropical storms from tomorrow which may change things! Really want to avoid CDG/AMS so hopefully there will be an LHR option...
Jul 10, 2019, 10:55 pm
#13
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DL has a weather waiver for JFK JULY11. DL is generally is spot on when it comes to these.
Jul 15, 2019, 10:06 am
#14
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I thought I would follow up on my actual experience in case anyone else is googling something similar!
All plans changed when I received a text from Virgin Holidays on Friday morning to say MBJ-JFK would be 30mins late - which left me 62 minutes to connect! I called VH to see what my options are and they said they recommended 60mins to connect at JFK
but they would be happy to move me to a Delta flight at 7:30pm (92mins connection time) or VS at 8:30pm (152mins) which we opted for.
Very glad we did...! Though we left late, the pilot was sure we would make up the time and we wondered if we had done the right thing - however we ended up circling for 20 mins and landing around 30mins late. Customs was quite swift, maybe 15mins, which was great. Despite our first 3 bags coming off the belt though, no.4 did not appear and after 20 mins we reported it only to be told it never made the flight!
So we took our 3 bags out, turned left and dropped them off at the Delta bag drop - no checks, no ID or anything, just chucked them on a conveyor and off they went! I really don't get this process in JFK, and as I understand from above, most US airports - why wouldn't they just be checked through?! To highlight my point, bag no. 4 DID turn up at LHR, so someone must have just added it to the flight (even though Delta were insistent it was still in MBJ!).
Then on to security - in something not much bigger than an office, with two lines of not many people, but it was excruciatingly slow...! This took about 35-40mins which in the grand scheme is not long, but I would estimate 20 people ahead of us. Time ticked past the 7pm that our original flight would have been leaving.
We then got through and to the gate for the LHR flight around 7:15pm, so I would estimate plane door to plane door time was around 1hr15m, and with very few people ahead of us in either customs or security. We were travelling Delta First/VS UC which helped the timings no end, but even if we arrived on schedule in JFK, we would have reached the LHR gate 15mins before the scheduled leave time, so I guess would have been denied boarding?
All in all, I would say that for an I to I flight, 90 mins is the absolute minimum for priority class, and probably 2hrs30 for economy/coach (the queues behind us in Customs were huge!). We were really happy with the exceptional service VH provided, changing flights with the minimum of fuss, and although the VS flight was again superb, MBJ-JFK in Delta First left a lot to be desired (unlike JFK-MBJ, which was quite pleasant)! The VS/Delta partnership leaves me reluctant to opt for a similar schedule in the future, which is a shame, because VS UC is a great product.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but hopefully this info helps a fellow traveller in the future, and thanks again to the experts for their advice!
All plans changed when I received a text from Virgin Holidays on Friday morning to say MBJ-JFK would be 30mins late - which left me 62 minutes to connect! I called VH to see what my options are and they said they recommended 60mins to connect at JFK
but they would be happy to move me to a Delta flight at 7:30pm (92mins connection time) or VS at 8:30pm (152mins) which we opted for.Very glad we did...! Though we left late, the pilot was sure we would make up the time and we wondered if we had done the right thing - however we ended up circling for 20 mins and landing around 30mins late. Customs was quite swift, maybe 15mins, which was great. Despite our first 3 bags coming off the belt though, no.4 did not appear and after 20 mins we reported it only to be told it never made the flight!
So we took our 3 bags out, turned left and dropped them off at the Delta bag drop - no checks, no ID or anything, just chucked them on a conveyor and off they went! I really don't get this process in JFK, and as I understand from above, most US airports - why wouldn't they just be checked through?! To highlight my point, bag no. 4 DID turn up at LHR, so someone must have just added it to the flight (even though Delta were insistent it was still in MBJ!).
Then on to security - in something not much bigger than an office, with two lines of not many people, but it was excruciatingly slow...! This took about 35-40mins which in the grand scheme is not long, but I would estimate 20 people ahead of us. Time ticked past the 7pm that our original flight would have been leaving.
We then got through and to the gate for the LHR flight around 7:15pm, so I would estimate plane door to plane door time was around 1hr15m, and with very few people ahead of us in either customs or security. We were travelling Delta First/VS UC which helped the timings no end, but even if we arrived on schedule in JFK, we would have reached the LHR gate 15mins before the scheduled leave time, so I guess would have been denied boarding?
All in all, I would say that for an I to I flight, 90 mins is the absolute minimum for priority class, and probably 2hrs30 for economy/coach (the queues behind us in Customs were huge!). We were really happy with the exceptional service VH provided, changing flights with the minimum of fuss, and although the VS flight was again superb, MBJ-JFK in Delta First left a lot to be desired (unlike JFK-MBJ, which was quite pleasant)! The VS/Delta partnership leaves me reluctant to opt for a similar schedule in the future, which is a shame, because VS UC is a great product.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but hopefully this info helps a fellow traveller in the future, and thanks again to the experts for their advice!
Jul 15, 2019, 9:05 pm
#15
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I thought I would follow up on my actual experience in case anyone else is googling something similar!
All plans changed when I received a text from Virgin Holidays on Friday morning to say MBJ-JFK would be 30mins late - which left me 62 minutes to connect! I called VH to see what my options are and they said they recommended 60mins to connect at JFK but they would be happy to move me to a Delta flight at 7:30pm (92mins connection time) or VS at 8:30pm (152mins) which we opted for.
As it was the DL flight delayed, DL really should've done the rebooking. As I pointed out earlier, you could have pulled up reservation at delta.com and been rebooked with two or three clicks. DL rebooking tool would've allowed you to rebook to next day, to change LHR arrival to LGW/MAN/etc..
Very glad we did...! Though we left late, the pilot was sure we would make up the time and we wondered if we had done the right thing - however we ended up circling for 20 mins and landing around 30mins late. Customs was quite swift, maybe 15mins, which was great. Despite our first 3 bags coming off the belt though, no.4 did not appear and after 20 mins we reported it only to be told it never made the flight!
So we took our 3 bags out, turned left and dropped them off at the Delta bag drop - no checks, no ID or anything, just chucked them on a conveyor and off they went! I really don't get this process in JFK, and as I understand from above, most US airports - why wouldn't they just be checked through?! To highlight my point, bag no. 4 DID turn up at LHR, so someone must have just added it to the flight (even though Delta were insistent it was still in MBJ!).
As you are entering the US. bags must clear customs. In some cases customs allow bags to be transferred by the airline between flights on same carrier for ITI connection. However even in that case the bags are still subject to US customs rules as you're entering the US. It's just that you dont have to transfer the bag yourself. Once you filed report for the bag a different set of rules apply. The reporting process means you give DL authority to clear the missing bag on your behalf.
Then on to security - in something not much bigger than an office, with two lines of not many people, but it was excruciatingly slow...! This took about 35-40mins which in the grand scheme is not long, but I would estimate 20 people ahead of us. Time ticked past the 7pm that our original flight would have been leaving.
Again, as noted above you should've went upstairs to the regular checkpoint.
We then got through and to the gate for the LHR flight around 7:15pm, so I would estimate plane door to plane door time was around 1hr15m, and with very few people ahead of us in either customs or security. We were travelling Delta First/VS UC which helped the timings no end, but even if we arrived on schedule in JFK, we would have reached the LHR gate 15mins before the scheduled leave time, so I guess would have been denied boarding?
Possible. However the airline can see if you've cleared immigration and customs. Also they would've received your bags. As it's a pain to unload they tend to wait as long as possible.
All in all, I would say that for an I to I flight, 90 mins is the absolute minimum for priority class, and probably 2hrs30 for economy/coach (the queues behind us in Customs were huge!). We were really happy with the exceptional service VH provided, changing flights with the minimum of fuss, and although the VS flight was again superb, MBJ-JFK in Delta First left a lot to be desired (unlike JFK-MBJ, which was quite pleasant)! The VS/Delta partnership leaves me reluctant to opt for a similar schedule in the future, which is a shame, because VS UC is a great product.
Curious what the issues were on the return, other than obvious delay.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but hopefully this info helps a fellow traveller in the future, and thanks again to the experts for their advice!
All plans changed when I received a text from Virgin Holidays on Friday morning to say MBJ-JFK would be 30mins late - which left me 62 minutes to connect! I called VH to see what my options are and they said they recommended 60mins to connect at JFK
but they would be happy to move me to a Delta flight at 7:30pm (92mins connection time) or VS at 8:30pm (152mins) which we opted for.As it was the DL flight delayed, DL really should've done the rebooking. As I pointed out earlier, you could have pulled up reservation at delta.com and been rebooked with two or three clicks. DL rebooking tool would've allowed you to rebook to next day, to change LHR arrival to LGW/MAN/etc..
Very glad we did...! Though we left late, the pilot was sure we would make up the time and we wondered if we had done the right thing - however we ended up circling for 20 mins and landing around 30mins late. Customs was quite swift, maybe 15mins, which was great. Despite our first 3 bags coming off the belt though, no.4 did not appear and after 20 mins we reported it only to be told it never made the flight!
So we took our 3 bags out, turned left and dropped them off at the Delta bag drop - no checks, no ID or anything, just chucked them on a conveyor and off they went! I really don't get this process in JFK, and as I understand from above, most US airports - why wouldn't they just be checked through?! To highlight my point, bag no. 4 DID turn up at LHR, so someone must have just added it to the flight (even though Delta were insistent it was still in MBJ!).
As you are entering the US. bags must clear customs. In some cases customs allow bags to be transferred by the airline between flights on same carrier for ITI connection. However even in that case the bags are still subject to US customs rules as you're entering the US. It's just that you dont have to transfer the bag yourself. Once you filed report for the bag a different set of rules apply. The reporting process means you give DL authority to clear the missing bag on your behalf.
Then on to security - in something not much bigger than an office, with two lines of not many people, but it was excruciatingly slow...! This took about 35-40mins which in the grand scheme is not long, but I would estimate 20 people ahead of us. Time ticked past the 7pm that our original flight would have been leaving.
Again, as noted above you should've went upstairs to the regular checkpoint.
We then got through and to the gate for the LHR flight around 7:15pm, so I would estimate plane door to plane door time was around 1hr15m, and with very few people ahead of us in either customs or security. We were travelling Delta First/VS UC which helped the timings no end, but even if we arrived on schedule in JFK, we would have reached the LHR gate 15mins before the scheduled leave time, so I guess would have been denied boarding?
Possible. However the airline can see if you've cleared immigration and customs. Also they would've received your bags. As it's a pain to unload they tend to wait as long as possible.
All in all, I would say that for an I to I flight, 90 mins is the absolute minimum for priority class, and probably 2hrs30 for economy/coach (the queues behind us in Customs were huge!). We were really happy with the exceptional service VH provided, changing flights with the minimum of fuss, and although the VS flight was again superb, MBJ-JFK in Delta First left a lot to be desired (unlike JFK-MBJ, which was quite pleasant)! The VS/Delta partnership leaves me reluctant to opt for a similar schedule in the future, which is a shame, because VS UC is a great product.
Curious what the issues were on the return, other than obvious delay.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but hopefully this info helps a fellow traveller in the future, and thanks again to the experts for their advice!