Contract ID and Coupon Code

Old Jan 8, 18, 2:08 pm
  #1  
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Contract ID and Coupon Code

Hi,
So, got a discussion on another topic, but nothing to do with it, so I prefer to create specific thread for discussion (to avoid pollution on other subject).

About contact ID, if I am correct, you have two kinds:
1- Dedicated to a company employees
2- Linked to a membership, owning a card (credit card, ...), loyatly program of hotels, ...
For the item 1, it is clearly not recommended to use such contract ID if you are not employee of the company... Especially if some insurances are added by default by contract terms (in such a case, if you have an accident, you might not be covered by the insurance...). Am I correct?
For item 2, my question is how to know if a contract ID is still valid? It looks like, from other threads and discussions found on other forums that event if the agreement between National and the "program" you are part, the contact ID still can be used for a reservation. What happens if someone do a reservation with a contract ID that is working, looks to still to be alive but in fact not (and is eligible to this contract ID based on information found)? Why National does not disable such codes? I am thinking for example on an airline loyalty program you are enrolled (and with a status), for which you have a contract ID that can be easily found ion internet with all conditions, no expiration date provided, but most probably, the contract is over between National and this airline.

About coupon code, if you use one and you don't have the coupon with you when you take the car, what is the risk? Just have removal of the coupon code benefit or reservation cancellation?

Play3000
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Old Jan 8, 18, 3:46 pm
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1. Not a good idea.
2. If the code still works, it's not expired.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 8:47 am
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If you have to ask if you're eligible, you probably should not be using a given contract ID. In case of an accident, not only would the provided coverages (if associated with the used contract ID) be nullified, but it is likely that personal insurance and/or credit card insurance may also not cover you, because you'd be in violation of the terms of the master rental agreement.

As above poster noted, if the code still produces a rate, it's not expired.

I have not been asked for a physical coupon in years. Most of them (Entertainment, etc.) are online only anyways. I suppose they would probably just remove the coupon from the reservation if it came down to it but I have never heard of that.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 9:01 am
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[
Originally Posted by dwbf11 View Post
If you have to ask if you're eligible, you probably should not be using a given contract ID. In case of an accident, not only would the provided coverages (if associated with the used contract ID) be nullified, but it is likely that personal insurance and/or credit card insurance may also not cover you, because you'd be in violation of the terms of the master rental agreement.
I don't really foresee an issue if you use a contract ID that is for personal use. Unless you kill or seriously injury someone, neither the rental agency or credit card insurance are going to ask you for proof. It's simply irrelevant.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 10:05 am
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Originally Posted by manohman View Post
[

I don't really foresee an issue if you use a contract ID that is for personal use. Unless you kill or seriously injury someone, neither the rental agency or credit card insurance are going to ask you for proof. It's simply irrelevant.
Well, everyone has different risk tolerances for this sort of thing. Personally, saving a few bucks isn't worth the tradeoff of the prospect of being without coverage.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by dwbf11 View Post
Well, everyone has different risk tolerances for this sort of thing. Personally, saving a few bucks isn't worth the tradeoff of the prospect of being without coverage.
Are there any past examples of rental agencies, credit card companies or personal insurance invalidating coverage over using a contract ID you're not entitled to?
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Old Jan 9, 18, 7:43 pm
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Originally Posted by manohman View Post
[

I don't really foresee an issue if you use a contract ID that is for personal use. Unless you kill or seriously injury someone, neither the rental agency or credit card insurance are going to ask you for proof. It's simply irrelevant.
What if it's just $5,000 in damage to the vehicle and a broken leg or some such for a passenger or pedestrian?

The question is your risk tolerance. Indeed, any coverage you have under any form of affinity discount, e.g. contract ID or coupon, is voidable and most other policies are voidable if the underlying contract is fraudulent.

At what point an insurer decides to do some checking is a crap shoot. So, whether your fraud works or not isn't something you can predict up front.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 8:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
What if it's just $5,000 in damage to the vehicle and a broken leg or some such for a passenger or pedestrian?

The question is your risk tolerance. Indeed, any coverage you have under any form of affinity discount, e.g. contract ID or coupon, is voidable and most other policies are voidable if the underlying contract is fraudulent.

At what point an insurer decides to do some checking is a crap shoot. So, whether your fraud works or not isn't something you can predict up front.
Have you ever filed a credit card or CDW claim before? With the former, you provide your monthly credit card statement to show you paid for the rental with an eligible card, provide open and close rental documents, provide details about the accident and inform them of the damage. With the latter, you fill out a damage report with the rental agency, walk away and only hear from them when the claim is closed.

There is literally no questions about your eligibility to the discount. If it actually mattered, rental agencies would check your eligibility for the discount prior to giving you the keys which they don't. If you somehow come across a branch that insists on checking eligibility, just decline the rental and more than likely they'll waive the requirement because they don't want to lose potential business over eligibility that they actually don't give a .... about. Rental agencies are all about a numbers game, for example with my local Enterprise location, any car they have on the lot after 2PM on a Friday negatively affects their KPIs which is why they're more than likely to work out some sort of deal if you agree to pick up before 2PM or have the paperwork completed and submitted by 2PM and you rock up later to pick up the keys.
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Old Jan 10, 18, 12:00 pm
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Originally Posted by dwbf11 View Post
If you have to ask if you're eligible, you probably should not be using a given contract ID. In case of an accident, not only would the provided coverages (if associated with the used contract ID) be nullified, but it is likely that personal insurance and/or credit card insurance may also not cover you, because you'd be in violation of the terms of the master rental agreement.

As above poster noted, if the code still produces a rate, it's not expired.

I have not been asked for a physical coupon in years. Most of them (Entertainment, etc.) are online only anyways. I suppose they would probably just remove the coupon from the reservation if it came down to it but I have never heard of that.
I am not sure where these claims come about regarding personal insurance not covering an accident even if a wrong code was used. A credit card would certainly not cover the accident because the LDW was on the contract, but an insurance company like State Farm or Allstate is not going to care about your discount code whether you were allowed to use it or not - I have never seen policy language that talks about anything beyond prohibited use - meaning, using the rental car for commercial purposes (ie, Uber, deliveries, etc), or using the car in a prohibited fashion (ie, off-roading, drunken driving, etc). Credit card and personal insurance are both secondary - if National turns around and tells you the accident is not covered because you were not entitled to benefit from the LDW coverage, your personal insurance will pick up the gap, but your credit card most likely will not.

Damage is only a small part of the risk - not having liability coverage in at least 100/300 increments, if not higher, is the biggest risk a renter faces regardless of which code they are using. I recently learned, specific to State Farm and possibly the same with other companies, that if you rent more than X days a year, you are required to add a 'non owners' endorsement to your policy, or you may not be covered one way or the other, so those who rent frequently and use personal insurance should call their agents to look into this,
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Old Jan 10, 18, 1:40 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I am not sure where these claims come about regarding personal insurance not covering an accident even if a wrong code was used. A credit card would certainly not cover the accident because the LDW was on the contract, but an insurance company like State Farm or Allstate is not going to care about your discount code whether you were allowed to use it or not - I have never seen policy language that talks about anything beyond prohibited use - meaning, using the rental car for commercial purposes (ie, Uber, deliveries, etc), or using the car in a prohibited fashion (ie, off-roading, drunken driving, etc). Credit card and personal insurance are both secondary - if National turns around and tells you the accident is not covered because you were not entitled to benefit from the LDW coverage, your personal insurance will pick up the gap, but your credit card most likely will not.

Damage is only a small part of the risk - not having liability coverage in at least 100/300 increments, if not higher, is the biggest risk a renter faces regardless of which code they are using. I recently learned, specific to State Farm and possibly the same with other companies, that if you rent more than X days a year, you are required to add a 'non owners' endorsement to your policy, or you may not be covered one way or the other, so those who rent frequently and use personal insurance should call their agents to look into this,
Insurance companies don't like to pay when they don't have to. If they find out that the rental contract includes coverage for something, they won't pay. If that other coverage denies for some other reason (like fraud), they won't pay either.

This is why it's never a good idea to have overlapping insurance, because both companies will [attempt] not to pay.
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Old Jan 10, 18, 2:45 pm
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Locking this thread because we are not going anywhere productive, and this forum does not condone violating rental agreements or sidestepping the rules in any way. OP isn't even participating and this has turned into an argument about whether it's worth it to break the rules or not.

If a person wants to use a code that they may or may not be entitled to use, that is a personal decision to make. Each person is responsible for knowing the limits and exclusions of their own insurance coverage, whether it be from a credit card, the agency, auto insurance, or something else. Similarly, each person can make their own personal risk assessment about whether the dollar savings are worth the (admittedly, worst-case) potential for being left exposed for all of the costs associated with an accident.

@bocastephen I can tell you that no insurance company will cover a loss where fraud is involved, and define it however you want, but if you're using a code to get a better price for the rental than a publicly available rate, or one that gives you benefits negotiated by a company or organization meant for that group's constituents, it's fraud. This isn't about the LDW coverage issue, it's about coverage for the overall incident. Prohibited use also includes committing a fraud on the owner of the vehicle during the course of the rental. But hey, like I said above, it's a personal decision to make, and as a lawyer with many years of insurance practice behind me, I know how I approach these situations.
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