Is Top Tier Elite Status More Valuable with Airlines or Hotels?
Jul 14, 2009, 9:55 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DEN - MAD
Programs: AS 100K/F9 100K/*A-Gold/AA 1.6mm/HyattGlobal/IHG SPIRE/Hilt-Caes-Wynd DIAM/Rad & Crown&Anch GOLD
Posts: 466
Tie Goes to the Elite Programs
Jul 15, 2009, 8:50 am
#62
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,559
On the upgrade front, both hotels and airlines have two categories: plain old upgrades and...MEANINGFUL upgrades. 
Airlines are tightening up across the board on meaningful upgrades - that is, the long-haul three-cabin J/F seats. They'll still give out domestic U.S. upgrades like candy, but you are almost always required to pay a co-pay (either a direct fixed amount or a buy-up to a particular fare) in addition to a lot of miles for the seat. Top-tiers gets SWU's which are more generous, but I think by now most airlines have attached some restrictions to these. For example, I recently booked a trip using United SWU's - my effective co-pay per SWU was about $71 on a TATL trip.
(Do AA VIPOW's have any fare restrictions? I recall using one many years ago on an instant-purchase L fare to CDG that was about $350 R/T all in from MCI. I just handed the paper cert over to an agent and got my C seat assignment back.)
With hotels, the parallel is that all elites usually get "nice" rooms. C-level, high floors, far from elevators, the "desirable" view, etc. Those are the day-to-day upgrades. But Starwood in particular seems to have an advantage in that they give them top-tiers a lot of meaningful upgrades (true suites) - plus they allow the rest of us to confirm those upgrades on awards. Granted, upgrade awards are capacity controlled, but I've usually been successful at getting them.
Top-tier at Marriott rarely gets a major upgrade. I get the same "desirable" rooms I always got as a Gold. In my past 150 nights, I've gotten 1 large suite for 2 nights on a weekend. (It was at the Napa Marriott, a hotel which most FT'ers despise.)
Airlines are tightening up across the board on meaningful upgrades - that is, the long-haul three-cabin J/F seats. They'll still give out domestic U.S. upgrades like candy, but you are almost always required to pay a co-pay (either a direct fixed amount or a buy-up to a particular fare) in addition to a lot of miles for the seat. Top-tiers gets SWU's which are more generous, but I think by now most airlines have attached some restrictions to these. For example, I recently booked a trip using United SWU's - my effective co-pay per SWU was about $71 on a TATL trip.
(Do AA VIPOW's have any fare restrictions? I recall using one many years ago on an instant-purchase L fare to CDG that was about $350 R/T all in from MCI. I just handed the paper cert over to an agent and got my C seat assignment back.)
With hotels, the parallel is that all elites usually get "nice" rooms. C-level, high floors, far from elevators, the "desirable" view, etc. Those are the day-to-day upgrades. But Starwood in particular seems to have an advantage in that they give them top-tiers a lot of meaningful upgrades (true suites) - plus they allow the rest of us to confirm those upgrades on awards. Granted, upgrade awards are capacity controlled, but I've usually been successful at getting them.
Top-tier at Marriott rarely gets a major upgrade. I get the same "desirable" rooms I always got as a Gold. In my past 150 nights, I've gotten 1 large suite for 2 nights on a weekend. (It was at the Napa Marriott, a hotel which most FT'ers despise.)
Jul 15, 2009, 1:17 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
tough to choose
well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
Hilton Honors Diamond:
worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)
that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
Hilton Honors Diamond:
worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)
that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.
Jul 15, 2009, 1:45 pm
#64
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,559
well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)
that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.
You can fly J/F...and check in to a free hotel room when you get there! ^
Jul 15, 2009, 8:51 pm
#65
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DEN - MAD
Programs: AS 100K/F9 100K/*A-Gold/AA 1.6mm/HyattGlobal/IHG SPIRE/Hilt-Caes-Wynd DIAM/Rad & Crown&Anch GOLD
Posts: 466
Dilution!
well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
Hilton Honors Diamond:
worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)
that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.
American Executive Platinum Status:
worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)
Hilton Honors Diamond:
worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)
that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.
Thanks, Moops. Your bunk experience on the 8-hour flight is the ugly side of "dilution" (a concept I don't generally buy into -- statistically, people have to be earning more often than they're redeeming). I'm sorry to hear about that. (The All-Star Game is another dilution dilemma, but that's definitely another thread.)
It's good to hear you say that so far you can't name a "worst" experience with HH.
Happy travels!
**
Jul 18, 2009, 1:30 am
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,004
I was forced to fly 9 whole hours in coach on an airline without status, instead of being up front. My 14 day stay in Hawaii have been on based rewards that were upgraded to Ocean Facing and Ocean Front (1 week each, Marriott, SPG) rooms, with spacious layouts.
Hmmm. 9 hours vs. 2 weeks. I'll take hotel status, thank you.
Hmmm. 9 hours vs. 2 weeks. I'll take hotel status, thank you.
Jan 23, 2011, 3:25 pm
#68
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 102
Surprised, but it looks like I might be in a lonely camp.. To me, airline status is FAR more important. In fact, so much more so that I almost don't care about hotel STATUS (but not points, hotel points are very valuable to me) at all. I've been top tier Marriot, and am now SPG top tier. Both gave me room upgrades (although SPGs are better, IMHO), and extra miles.
However, the difference between the worst room in an SPG property and the best room is typically the difference between "very nice" and "excellent". There's no bad room, some are just better than others.
That's why airline status is so much more valuable to me. The difference between a good seat (1C, for example) and a bad seat (last row center seat) is so vastly different to almost be in another league. It's the difference between being comfortable and well taken care of compared to being treated as if your on a prison transport heading for Gitmo.
I often don't even ask (when checking into a hotel) if room upgrades are available, I don't spend much time in the room and, IMHO, they are all "good enough". But with the airlines, I'll be on ExpertFlyer/KVS for hours trying to figure out if I can be upgraded or not/flights to take/etc.
Thankfully, hotels worst product is pretty good. The same cannot be said for the airlines; their worst product is just a narrow step above flying transcon on The Rack.
However, the difference between the worst room in an SPG property and the best room is typically the difference between "very nice" and "excellent". There's no bad room, some are just better than others.
That's why airline status is so much more valuable to me. The difference between a good seat (1C, for example) and a bad seat (last row center seat) is so vastly different to almost be in another league. It's the difference between being comfortable and well taken care of compared to being treated as if your on a prison transport heading for Gitmo.
I often don't even ask (when checking into a hotel) if room upgrades are available, I don't spend much time in the room and, IMHO, they are all "good enough". But with the airlines, I'll be on ExpertFlyer/KVS for hours trying to figure out if I can be upgraded or not/flights to take/etc.
Thankfully, hotels worst product is pretty good. The same cannot be said for the airlines; their worst product is just a narrow step above flying transcon on The Rack.
Jan 23, 2011, 3:27 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 102
You must not be as tall/big as I am. Flying coach IS that bad for anyone over 6' tall. And, even if your not, just takes one guy sitting next to you who's 300+ lbs for flying coach to go from "not that bad" to "I'll fly in the cargo hold to get out of this seat".
Jan 23, 2011, 3:45 pm
#70
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: BA Gold; AA Lfe Time PLT ; Marriott Titanium, LFT GLD
Posts: 1,276
Using SWUs for upgrading international flights does not involve any extra fees. I have been upgraded sucessfuly with SWUs on every single international flight that I have booked. Often you can get upgarded at the time of booking if you book ahead far enough.
Jan 23, 2011, 3:51 pm
#71
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: BA Gold; AA Lfe Time PLT ; Marriott Titanium, LFT GLD
Posts: 1,276
For this reason my AA upgrades and SWUs are worth more to me than my suite upgrades from SPG. My favorite use of SPG points at the moment is to convert to AA miles for future J or F tickets.
Jan 23, 2011, 9:07 pm
#72
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE, AA EXP MM, UA Gold MM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Titanium, HH Dia, IHG Plat
Posts: 4,777
Jan 23, 2011, 9:19 pm
#73
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: UA 1MM Gold, Delta Gold, HH ◊, SPG Gold
Posts: 297
I think that hotel status is more a forgone conclusion, generally speaking you know you will get executive floor/breakfast etc in advance. However airline perks are a less lot predictable, I have twice last year been moved from E+ to C whilst been seated in E+ on the plane, minutes before take off. Nice, but not something you would want to rely on or expect.
Jan 24, 2011, 9:26 am
#74
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,559
We used it to book prime (expensive) domestic trips that we would have never been able to take without the 1K inventory. Usually there's just 1 seat in that bucket if everything else is starting to sell out. The 3-4 trips we took paired up a DBCFREE with the 1K FF award to get two seats. I felt like it was worthwhile to stretch the DBCFREE's to cover more trips.
Things like Midwest to the West Coast on the most optimal flights in a holiday or peak period... I know some have a mantra of never redeeming a 25k domestic award but in these cases we felt like they represented excellent value. $500+ R/T's that we simply otherwise would have never taken.
The other 1K benefit I enjoyed most was the ability to fiddle with award itineraries as much as necessary. Our summer trip to Europe: first got it booked 10 months out via a poor routing (through Canada) in coach. That at least allowed us to start planning the trip. Then, gradually over time, the routing got better and eventually it became a business-class trip, making final changes 1 week prior to departure. Without 1K, we probably would have been on that circuitous coach routing.