Relative value of hotel points
 

Over here, there seems to be the opinion that *wood points are worth 3 to 5 times what Hilton points are worth. It got me thinking.

I got started in this game a couple of years ago - I was staying at a Crowne Plaza, so I signed up for Priority Club. At the time, I wanted the miles (2.5 miles/$) and never thought of points. Went to plat, and then faded away.

Later on, I joined HHonors and made it to Diamond. Spent my points at the Paris Hilton and it really drove home the value of hotel points.

Now, I'm in Marriott Rewards. I check out their award program on the web, and it seems that they have fewer properties than Hilton (in Europe), but the redemption cost is less.

I have an SPG card, but haven't been in a *wood hotel in about 3 years.

So ... what is everyone's feelings about the relative value of the different programs? It seems there is some sort of consensus that *wood is the "best" (whatever that means). Every forum has members who insist that "their" program is the best.

I wonder if we could get some sort of reasonable relative ordering of the different programs, along with why you think the way you do about your program, and some numerical value (pgm A = 2.5 X pgm B, etc.)

I hope this is the right forum for this - if not, please feel free to move it.

I'm kind of curious, too. The only programs I know are Hilton and Starwood. I value Starpoints at 3-3.5 HHonors points. I have an Amex green card which I use only for double miles opportunities, so I get 4 HHonors points/$1. Everything else goes on the Starwood Amex (when possible).

With all the other programs out there, I feel like I may be missing a little bang for my credit card buck. But I know I'm not missing anything with Marriott:

Don't be fooled by the lower redemption cost. We discussed that here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000559.html

I have an HH Amex and am switching to an SPG Amex. I have come to the conclusion that an SPG point is worth 4 to 5 HH points; therefore the SPG card is better.

I factored in three awards: 6 nights high-end, cheap weekend mid-scale, and mileage conversion. In all cases, Starwood's card at 1 pt/$ came out ahead of HH at 3 pts/$.

Rough estimate (and I'm an SPG newbie, so jump in if anyone has better numbers) - using Starpoints for 5-6 nights at a high-end property in a location not well-covered by Priceline yields about 4 cents/point. Cheap weekends at midscale properties yield around 3 cents/point, which is VERY good for small awards. And we all know about the 20k -> 25k miles conversions.

HH yields are well under a penny a point. They were around a penny a point when ALON was 100k. Now they are down to 0.6 cents or so. Diamonds who can get no-blackouts in European cities will get more value. Silvers won't get rooms in those hotels.

You knew that with the massive giveaways in the HH program inflation was going to eventually get you. I once scored 70,000 points for spending $300.

I'm not even sure that HH points are worth 0.6 cent. I recently tried to burn some points on an area that wasn't covered by Priceline (rural Pennsylvania). The run-down Hampton Inn was a 25,000 point award. The $69 rate looked better than blowing the points.

I was shocked at the "level inflation" over at Hilton. Are they now saying that two nights at a Hampton Inn is equivalent to a night at the Waldorf? According to the award chart, they are.

Agreed - it's probably not easy to even milk .6c out of an HH point. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, valuing 6 nights at HWV at around a grand or so. Yeah, you can beat that on Priceline, but they did upgrade me to a great ocean-view room and provide free lounge access that we used at least twice a day. So for that week I was glad I used points instead of spending $850-900 on Priceline. (Of course, I got my two ALONs at 100k each, not 175k each.)

Using a 100k ALON at the HHV was a colossal waste of points. Using a 175k ALON there wouldn't even make sense. The hotel is in the midst of a concrete jungle. It is the antithesis of all of the wondrous charm of the other Hawaiian islands. And I think you can Priceline that area for $90/nt. or so.

I piled up 300,000 HH points mostly through 1-night Hampton stays, with an occasional Doubletree or Embassy mixed in. I did a lot of hotel-hopping to get the 16 stays needed for those two ALONs.

Other than Starwood is there a good hotel program?

And what is the opinion of Hyatt Gold Passport, especially compared to Starwood????

I wish I had enough points to redeem with Paris Hilton... not the hotel though http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My redemption experience with HHonors has been excellent and generally, I have achieved at least 1.0 cents per HHonors point redeemed. In the past two years I have had award stays at the Rome Cavalieri, Paris Hilton, London Metropole, Cabo Hilton, Cancun Hilton, Chicago Palmer House, Waldorf-Astoria and the Doubletree Times Square. All of these stays met the 1.0 cent or higher standard when compared to the lowest available rate at the time we stayed there. The increase in award redemption rates has been difficult to adjust to but is more than offset by my ability to get award reservations at almost any property during peak times. It is a struggle every year to requalify for Diamond status with almost 100% personal (non-business) stays, but it is well worth it given how HHonors treats its Diamond members. If I ever fail to requalify, I'm sure SPG would look more attractive due to its greater award availability for all members.

Here's a quick comparison between HH and Starwood. You can find a Cat. 5 HH (35K) and a 10K Starwood each for about $285/night before tax. If you get your HH points via airline transfers, the 35K HH costs 17,500 in airline miles (35K/2).

So in this example you could say the HH award was 75% more expensive [(17,500-10,000)/10,000].

But on a Point Stretcher, the 35K HH award only costs 21K HH points, or 10,500 airline points - about the same as Starwood.

It would be mind-numbing to do this analysis for lots of properties, which is why most people make their decision on big-picture issues. And even though I use all the hotel programs you mentioned, Starwood's benefits make it the most convenient for me.


[This message has been edited by Family flyer (edited Feb 28, 2004).]

Basically being a high level elite in any of the hotel programs makes the program incredibly more valuable than to the general member. Hilton, Hyatt, Intercontinental, Marriott, and Starwood are the big 5.

My hotel stays greatly improved with Hilton Diamond status and Starwood Platinum. The great advantage of Hilton is the ability to exchange large numbers of airline miles for HHonors points, although the partner list was drastically cut with the deletion of United and Continental (and for me GlobalPass)in 2003. When American Airline miles can be accrued at 1 cent/mile (if you plan flights strategically for this purpose)then $750 (75,000 miles) in airline miles can be exchanged for 150,000 points and a GLON2 for 6 free nights. Of course it was better when it was 100,000 points for a GLON, but most of my GLON redemptions have been worth $1,500-2,000 for my 6 night stay.

Starwood has the edge on low category properties, especially for a platinum. I needed a room a couple of weeks ago at last minute at SFO on a Friday night. It sure is nice redeeming 2,000 points for a CAT 1 Sheraton and getting 500 points back as a platinum amenity (1,500 Starpoints net for 1 night). Considering the lowest available Hilton would have been 20,000 points I saved quite a bit with Starwood. Starwood is expensive in the high end properties. Unless you have expensive lodging folios or a good charge record with a Starwood AMEX, it is difficult to accumulate 80,000-100,000 Starpoints for a Cat6 5-night stay. At 2 cents/$1 for a regular member or 3 cents/$1 for elite that is more than $30,000 in folio charges for the award. Again, I can fly an airline and get 175,000 points with a Hilton exchange for less than $1,000 and get a 6 night GLONP2 award for a Hilton premium property.

Intercontinental has the advantage of being able to earn points at cheap Holiday Inns all over. The awards for Crowne Plaza and Intercontinental properties are relatively cheap compared to other programs' top properties.

Hyatt has the great Stay2,1 free offer regularly, but there are a limited number of locations with Hyatts compared to other program properties.

Marriott - I don't really see the appeal to this program. They require more nights than any other program to get high status and from what I read on FT upgrades aren't as frequent as with Hilton and Starwood.
It seems a person could get elite status with both Starwood and Hilton for the number of nights it takes with Marriott. I see Marriott as valuable for extended stays and they do have some nice awards, particularly at high point levels.

My strategy is generally to pay for many 1-night stays and earn status based on that, so Marriott doesn't work for me.

I am quite happy with Starwood and Hilton. I would like to add Intercontinental if my travel increases, and since Monterey has two Hyatts I need to take better advantage of the Hyatt promos so I can try some of their lovely properties I see when I travel.

I am a HH gold and a *Wood dirt. Recently, I tried to use points for a two night stay in Milan. There was a Hilton there but it was unavailable for a gold using points. The hotel was not sold out though but was about $400 per night. In this case, what good is having a high HH balance if you can't use them? This is the same issue with most airline ff programs. With *Wood, no problem, Sheraton 4 points for 7000 pts per night or Westin for 10,000 points per night, both with room rates around $350/nt. I am new to the *Wood program but the availability issue is incredibly useful to a base member. I believe the best use of any hotel points is for international travel, especially now that the dollar is so weak.

What if there was a major US airline ff program where a base member would be guaranteed a seat if the flight wasn't sold out that went to popular places like the caribbean and Europe? Everyone would agree that it was the best. All other things being equal, it looks like that's what we have with *Wood.

I love these room rates that you guys are throwing around. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

By the same token, your FF miles are worth 10 cents apiece because you could, in theory, buy an int'l F ticket for $10,000.

But how SHOULD you value miles or points if you ONLY use them to get things that you want (like expensive hotel locations or comfortable seats on transoceanic flights) but that you could never afford to buy outright? Just because you would could never afford to buy them outright does not mean that they have no value, if getting these things without paying $10000 is the whole reason you're collecting points/miles. (In fact, all you have to do is be a tallish person taking one transatlantic flight on ordinary coach to know that there is value, even if hard to quantify because you can't afford its price in cash, in having a more comfortable seat!)

Similarly, there are some destinations (have you priced hotels in big European cities in US$ these days?) where getting the room for points is a much better value compared to using points in many US locations. I can imagine, though, that for many people, if they didn't have points they'd book at a less convenient hotel and have a worse itenerary, so again there is value in booking with points at a place you can't afford to pay cash, but how do you quantify that value if not by the value you would have HAD to pay for it if you HAD chosen to pay cash?

Nothing beats Starwood. This month I transferred 120K miles to BA for 2 F class tickets. They have a double promo running so 60K miles go to 150K. Starwood gives you one free night when you book 5 nights. I can get a hotel that is 3300 Euros a night for 72K points approx. That is pretty good. 10K points for a 300-400 room in Westin or W is a great deal What can I get with 10K membership rewards points? A holiday inn?

There never was/is a card better for hotels than SPG.

Rob