Isabella36

Hi,

I am new to this forum and to the topic of frequent flyer programs. I am learning but would like your input and advice with regards to my situation.

I am planning on traveling to Italy & France this summer. If possible, I would like to fly business or first class the main reason being that during my last trip, I did not have a pleasant or very relaxing experience in economy class. Throughout my departure flight, there were a lot of men drinking and hanging around one another (b/c they were celebrating somebody's birthday) and on the return flight, there were two kids sitting behind me who were not in a good mood and kept kicking my seat.

I have gone through a lot of personal pains this past 1.5 years so I would like to treat myself to a relaxing and enjoyable business or first class seat. I have been doing as much as research as I can on the Internet and researching fares for my flight. I understand that there are ways to upgrade to first class but this mostly centers around being a frequent flyer member. (I wish that I had looked into this many years ago!).

Anyways, I came across a site that mentioned converting Esso and HBC points into Aeroplan miles. I read about points.com (converting or exchanging points) but read that it's not worth it. I would like to get your advice or suggestions on what I can do. This is what I have:
Esso Points - 3,149
Petro Points - 30, 822
HBC Rewards - 139, 085

Even if I don't have enough miles for business or first class, can I use what I might have (after exchanging them?) and then pay a difference?

Also, what program would you recommend? I am new to this so I only know of Aeroplan, which I believe is through Air Canada?

Is it worth getting a credit card that offers travel rewards or points? I have a VISA Gold card and PC Mastercard. I don't know if my VISA Gold has any travel rewards but I will look into it.

Thank you for your help and suggestions.

clacko

check for yup fares....often reasonable costs for premium seats....good luck...

gre

Looks like the only thing you have that might help, i.e., have enough of, are HBC Rewards. Unfortunately I don't know what they are.

Otherwise, keep your eye on prices and buy a premium seat if you can; there's no easy way to the front of the plane except cash.

JerryFF

A number of airlines, including Air France, offer a 70% discount on business class fares if you buy a nonrefundable ticket 60 days in advance. You don't mention where you will be departing from in the US but these roundtrip fares are about $2000 from the east coast and $3000 from the west coast.

Isabella36

Hi,

I'm from Ontario, Canada. I will be flying out of Toronto Pearson International airport to either Rome or Venice and returning home from Paris, France (CDG) airport.

Hbc Rewards are available through purchases at any of the Hbc owned stores (The Bay, Home Outfitters, Zellers). Hbc Rewards is now Zellers loyalty program, replacing the now defunct Club Z loyalty program.

How does yup work? Do all airlines have yup fares?

"...keep your eye on prices and buy a premium seat if you can;"
What is a premium seat? Is that the aisle seat or a seat near the exit door?

"...there's no easy way to the front of the plane except cash."
I thought that most travelers use flyer miles?

"...including Air France, offer a 70% discount on business class fares if you buy a nonrefundable ticket 60 days in advance."
Thanks. I will look into this. I wonder if it has to be 60 days in advance. I was just reading an article on-line that there has been a decline in business and first class seats due to the economy. I wonder if airlines will reduce prices on these seats?

kkjay77

Premium seats usually means first class (AKA F) and business class (AKA C or J) seats.

Deeply discounted fares such as one world I fares or star alliance Z fares do require advance purchase most of the times, but not always.
If you can get $2~3,000 RT ticket in C/J, then I'd purchase the business class ticket.

dodgeflyer

Just searching random dates in July, you can get a seat on Alitalia for £1249 which I believe converts to about CAD 1800. I used Kayak.co.uk, with +/-3 days for departure/return. Really not a bad option. I would also search for other European gateways, e.g. FRA, AMS, CDG and then buy an add-on flight to Rome/Venice.

Cloudship

Premium Economy is offered on some carriers (Virgin Atlantic, British Airways, BMI I think). This gives you a larger seat and more service than coach. On Virgin to be honest I think they did better than American Domestic 1st class, and they supposedly aren't as good as others. So this might be all you need.

There is no easy way into the front - even those of us who do fly fairly frequently can do first domestic but not internationally. I would definitely check out the premium economy route.

Isabella36

Hello again,

Thanks for your messages and clarifications.

I have been on the Internet for most of the day today; basically researching flight information and other interesting bits and pieces. I came across a site discussing the pros and cons of (travel) credit cards i.e., RBC Gold and Platinum Avion. I also learned about Asia Miles. I didn’t realize HOW MANY cards are out there for travelers!! I also learned that British Airways seems to be one of the better choices when using your rewards miles or points as it requires fewer points vs. other air lines. For example, (and correct me if I am wrong): BA might require 65,000 points for first class whereas Air Canada might require 110,000. I’m just making up these numbers as an example and based on what I read. Then again, I may have misunderstood the message (and you can correct me on this).

I called my credit card company (RBC Gold) and found out that I would need 65,000 points to travel to Europe in first class. If I switch to Platinum Avion, I will have 27,000 (15,000 bonus sign up). I spent about 20,000 in the past year on gift cards! Darn. lol. However, I have Esso points which I transferred over to my RBC Gold and Petro Points (about 31,000). I was looking into Asia Miles that has been a popular discussion on flyer forums. I can transfer my Petro Points to it and use British Airways.

Premium Economy is offered on some carriers (Virgin Atlantic, British Airways, BMI I think). This gives you a larger seat and more service than coach. On Virgin to be honest I think they did better than American Domestic 1st class, and they supposedly aren't as good as others. So this might be all you need.
Thanks for the info. I’m a little confused on the second last sentence:…. On Virgin to be honest I think they did better than American Domestic 1st class, and they supposedly aren't as good as others. Which airline are you stating is not as good as the other’s – Virgin or American Domestic 1st class? I’m guessing American Domestic but it’s hard to tell with the wording of the sentence.

There is no easy way into the front - even those of us who do fly fairly frequently can do first domestic but not internationally. I would definitely check out the premium economy route.
I will. Thank you for your suggestion. I didn’t know about premium economy until one of the members mentioned it on this forum.

Just searching random dates in July, you can get a seat on Alitalia for £1249 which I believe converts to about CAD 1800. I used Kayak.co.uk, with +/-3 days for departure/return. Really not a bad option.Thank you for searching the information for me. I appreciate it. I used a few airfare booking engines such as Expedia, Travelocity, CheapOair and some other ones and Alitalia always came up as one of the most expensive. Usually, Air Canada or Air France gave me the cheapest economy price. However, I will search Kayak and see what I can get. Some of the air fare site engines don’t work from Canada (only U.S. or U.K. sites) and some site engines don’t offer multi-city search so I don’t use it.

I would also search for other European gateways, e.g. FRA, AMS, CDG and then buy an add-on flight to Rome/Venice.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. If I fly into London or Paris and take a European flight (i.e. Ryan air) from that city to Rome or Venice, then it would be cheaper if I were to fly to Rome or Venice?

Premium seats usually means first class (AKA F) and business class (AKA C or J) seats.Thanks for the clarification.

Isabella36

Question: How do you search for a premium economy seat when the only selections available are: economy, business and first class? I'm searching in Kayak.com (since there is no Kayak.ca). I will check out the U.K. site and see what the price difference is.

Also, for future reference, would you recommend Asia Miles or Visa Platinum Avion Card?

altaskier

By and large, with airline points/miles, getting a business class seat on an economy ticket is facilitated by having elite status on the airline. For example, on American Airlines an Executive Platinum member (EXP; someone who has flown 100,000 butt-in-seat miles in the past year, or variations involving segments or paid first class tickets) gets 8 free upgrade certificates per year. These can be used for business class upgrades on international flights provided there is availability. Next in line are those cashing in miles plus a co-pay for an upgrade, and even then the EXP, Platinum (50,000 miles/year) and Gold (25,000 miles/year) elites all get priority over those without elite status.

Yes, there are those who get free upgrades on economy tickets, and there are other schemes involving credit card programs apart from airline miles, but I think the majority of the people who get upgrades are quite frequent customers of the airline involved.

That's why several people have suggested that if you really must have business class, and haven't participated in a significant way in a frequent flyer program in the past, your best bet is to hunt for bargain business class tickets.

Isabella36

check for yup fares....often reasonable costs for premium seats....

I asked two travel agents and 2 customer service agents (VISA) about yup fares and they didn't know what I was talking about. I'm surprised b/c I thought that this was something travel agents would be familiar with but I guess I was wrong.

How and where do I research yup tickets online? Which airlines?

Thanks.

ffI

1.
See what you can do with the hbc rewards
Are they transferable to airline programs?

2.
see farecompare.com for y-ups

The best is to transfer to any airline with availability for travel on the date you want.
First book the ticket. They will hold it 2-3 days
transfer the miles or points.
pay the fees.

Lastly BUY the miles if you need to.
e.g., Delta sells miles for 2.5c + 100% bonus = 1.25c per mile
~100k gets you to Europe = > 1250$
fees = 100$
Not bad for Biz.

But first book the ticket after becoming a FF on DL.
Once you have the booking only then buy the miles.

gre

No way to say this diplomatically, so here I go - you're in way above your head understandingwise.

Here's a weak analogy, you can't do calculus without an understanding of algebra. It's great that you're trying to learn, but you've got a long way to go, for instance it took me a couple of years just to figure UA out.

Everybody wants cheap C or F seats. And many of us spend thousands of dollars and 100's of hours to get them. Get informed, get status, and get a seat in the front of the plane.

FYI - "Y" "up" is an expensive E ticket that gets you an F seat. I'm pretty sure it's only a domestic thing.

As I said before, check your prices and if you really want to sit in the front of the plane you'll probably have to pay for it. While mileage upgrades are available, they are only offered on rather expensive international E tickets.

kkjay77

YUP fares are offered on international flights as well.