leaving NW/DL - advice
 

Well, the time has come, I think.

With the new last-minute award fees for award travel, maintaining status with NW/DL is not worth it to me anymore. That was the last great use of miles for me, and DL has completely eviscerated it.

So now what?

• Us: married, 1 young child, live between PDX and SEA.

• travel: except for 1 or 2 trips to LAX, all our travel is leisure. We fly between 25k-50k EQMs per year, it is a stretch to make the 50k level.

• destinations: DTW 2-3 times per year; DFW 3-4 times per year; SLC 1-2 times per year; Europe once per year; Mexico or C. America or Caribbean once per year; Hawaii once per year; a few other domestic destinations thrown in.

• most important benefits: no more gouging and nickel-and-diming fees. Especially baggage fees and last-minute award fees. Domestic upgrades have been nice, but I'll give those up for a more humane program. Bonus miles combined with miles that I can use without exorbitant fees and with fair availability. Call center agents that speak standard American English.
• benefits that don't matter a lot: international upgrades (we don't travel internationally enough). pre-boarding. lounges/clubs access. associations with hotel programs. free drinks and food on the plane is not a priority.

So what to do? Thoughts:
1. CO - love flying them, I love their service, I like their website, they have good service to DFW but only fair service to DTW. Biggest problem is 50% EQM for cheap fares, but we usually buy on line so this won't often be an issue. Route network matches our needs. But a UA partner... does this portend badness down the road?
2. UA - will not fly.
3. AA - great service to DFW, obviously. But to DTW I have to fly through ORD. There would be almost no upgrades... what are their junk fees like? I read through their elite benefits package and other than bonus miles, preboarding, and the smallest chance for an upgrade as AA Gold, I didn't see much to offer.
4. AS - awesome for the west coast, but partners everywhere else we fly (even DFW doesn't usually price right out of PDX). I don't think AS elite benefits on their partners are noteworthy, so I'd spend a lot of time flying as a non-elite. OTOH, they have a lot of partners.
5. combination of WN and nobody - has the time come to bolt eliteness altogether? Would I really do better just taking the cheapest flight everywhere I go? As an elite on NW, I already see minimal benefit to flying internationally with them, so I guess I don't lose much. Would it be better to maintain at least silver with NW and then fly the additional up to 25k miles on the cheapest airline?

As always thanks in advance to the FT community for your insight and advice.

CO's program is a joke. I've spent close to $400 right now on a reward ticket that cost 75k points. I wasn't let into the President's Club because the last leg was on an RJ. The 50% EQM thing screws business travelers. Their program will continue to get worse until it's on par with their new buddy United.

AA's program is really only good if you fly internationally and fly a lot.

AS is really your best bet. You'll be able to fly on CO, AS, NW, DL and AA and keep the points in the account. You're also in one of their hubs. I'm not sure what their fees are like, but they can't be worse than the other carriers. You'll have plenty of places to redeem the awards as well.

sorry to hear that about CO OP, as I still like flying them.

Maybe AS MVPG, since I can get EQMs on all the above airlines?

I would move to AS too.

Clearly there is much more to this story than you are disclosing here. :confused:

For the OP I agree that AS sounds like it makes the most sense for their needs.

I am PM on DL and MVPG on AS. If you are going to leave DL/NW, definitely switch to AS. You will get upgrades on DL later this year, already get them on NW, and you can earn miles from AA, CO, DL, NW, and a bunch of international carriers. Also since you fly out of SEA and PDX, you can get direct flights pretty easily.

If I were you, I would do a status match to AS and give it a shot. Takes about 1 week for it to go through.

I agree with AS. As one who travels up and down the west coast after a transcon, I think you'll find it most flexible and useful. Status Match is a fine idea.

thanks for all the suggestions - AS sounds like a winner. Just one clarification - CO earns RDMs but not EQMs, is that correct? Whereas AS, DL, and NW earn EQMs as well?

Status match on AS
 

If you are serious about jumping to Alaska, it is a simple matter to ask for a status match on AS. Even at MVP, you will enjoy some benefits while you are building up your AS mileage plan account.

Some things to consider. Alaska Airlines Visa: free yearly companion ticket at $50 + fees. Downside is that it costs $85 per year without first year being waived. Since you are also a successful business person, they have an Alaska Visa Business card that is about the same cost per year and it comes with a $99 companion ticket. Companion tickets book with any fare. In fact I have multiple cards. Be sure to charge everything business related on the cards.

If wife and baby have any status even NW silver, ask for status match for them.

AS status gets you FC check-in, I think both levels get you thru PDX fast track security on the A,B,C gates. You also have priority boarding and seat selection. MVPG is the same qualifying level as NW gold.

Best thing about AS is award availability especially to South America and Europe sometimes at lower points levels than you may be used to. I understand that Asia availability kinda sucks. The large number of partners opens up multiple ways to get where you want to go. The partner desk for booking awards is especially good.

Great partner list that earn you each miles in the account quickly.

PM me quickly if you are going to jump and want to book some AS flights for the family. I have a nice gift for you if you do move. Needs to be done in January and I am gone the whole month after the 13th.

Best Regards

Correct... CO is RDM only :mad:

AS, QX, DL, NW, AA, KL, AF & LAN all give AS EQM's... RDM's on many more carriers...

AS & NW have a nice partnership currently, with UG's going to AS MVP/G's after NW Silvers... and this is supposed to be extended to the whole of DL over 2009... including access to better seats...

AS & AA - apparently EQM's is the only reciprocal benefit... No UG's, recognition, better seats, etc...

And I know AS does not have the nonstop from PDX-Hawaii yet... but its an extra 500 EQM's to route thru SEA and those are some nice non-stop flights... with UG's quite possible... (Especially when not traveling during peak holidays)

Finally, I'd take a look at the AS Boardroom, as it may be a nice reprieve for your family while waiting in the airport...

Welcome to AS :D

"Clearly there is much more to this story than you are disclosing here. "

Booking a ticket without being far in advance = big fees on CO.com

ANY change to a reward fare for ANY elite is $150. CO has the highest fees in the industry. OnePass program is now a joke.

I'm no apologist for CO. I think the fees are all bullsh*t. That said, you are incorrect in that the fees are more or less the same across the legacies and Plats are exempt. Regarding change fees on award tickets:

CO - $150. Plats are exempt.

DL - $100. Plats are exempt.

US - $150 ($250 for transatl/transpac)

AA - $150, though date and time can be changed for free. Don't know about exemptions.

UA - $150, though date and time look to be changeable for free. Changes in connections, though, explicitly trigger the fee. Don't know about exemptions.

(Thanks to an FTer in another thread who I copied some of this from.)

I'm switching to CO from NW/DL because of their new 3-tier award structure that is essentially a devaluation. My wife has been gold on CO for years and we have never had a problem getting int'l biz award seats at the saver rates. That said, their taxes/surcharges/fees were much higher than I'd ever experienced at NW. However those rosy days at NW are long gone (or going..) and I think CO is a very viable option. I'm sure I'll be complaining about them in a few months though. :p:( Whattdya gonna do, huh? It sure feels like the golden age for frequent flyers is past.

peace,
~Ben~

As for AS, as an MVPG, one can make changes for free to award or paid travel :D

For UA, 1Ks are exempted from award change fees.

At DL-NW, the award fee exemption benefit for Platinums seem to be slated for elimination in a few months time -- and DL has quite literally more and larger award fees than every US carrier with a frequent flyer program with DL Platinums already hit by most of them too.

Being Platinum and DL-NW is becoming worth less and less. Welcome to things under this greedy bunch of DL managers.

Hmmmm.... It's always "Management", isn't it? Have you bothered to look and see what the whole airline industry is going through? I don't think "greed" is the right term, unless you include the unions, and union members in the same statement. Watch the fun as DL tries to get the NW flight attendants on board. Look what happened at Boeing, Oh, then there's the auto industry...

As for the fees, book early, no fee. Book late, pay fee - just like the majority of other programs. Yeah, I don't like it, but at least we can still use them. Feel free to leave the Delta, it opens up seats for the rest of us. If you think the grass is greener elsewhere, go. You'll probably be back.

Lastly, AS has been looked at as a potential acquisition by DL. It would make a great addition to expand their offerings on the west coast. Not sure if it would make it past government approval under the new administration, but it would make for an interesting marriage...

From last year to the present at least, DL-managed FF program(s) is(are) on a steeper (i.e., worse) downhill trajectory for customers than many other airline programs' loyalty programs.

While DL and airline management apologists may be fine with supporting DL management's customer-unfriendly policies, there is no getting around that there are other options available to most frequent flyer account members if the customers care to look and apply their mind.

The changes to the DL-NW frequent flyer program(s) that have been going on as of late are the doing of DL management -- unions don't make decisions for the frequent flyer program. There is no getting around that regardless of how much unions may be hated by you or someone else, the DL-NW frequent flyer program(s) devaluation for those who care about award travel that is "free" rather than "somewhat discounted paid travel stripped of frequent flyer program benefits" is the direct result of DL management decisions.

Bullseye! How are unions to blame for charging Platinums a fee to redeposit miles on an award? Or for a three tier award redemption structure? (I'm certainly no great lover of unions, but DL Platinum's comparison to manufacturing just doesn't hold up re: the FF program.)

Claiming that every other airline's program sucks just as much isn't true, but it also isn't the whole point. If one is more certain that the likes of DL and US will more dramatically devalue their programs in comparison to others based upon everything we're seeing and the long history of doing so, then why would a frequent flyer put their eggs in that basket? I was never looking for more, bigger, better, etc with NW WorldPerks -- it was a solid program, but most of all it had a reliable, stable status quo. Since status and EQMs are a annual phenomenon and I build up my banked miles for int'l biz awards, having the goalposts constantly moved and the benefits dramatically redefined all the time is the worst outcome. That's why I'm going to CO. Sadly, I don't think my departure will mean there are "more" awards/upgrade/etc for DL elites -- they're getting less of everything in this deal.

peace,
~Ben~

My issue is that so many choose to look at just one peice of the pie: "Management". My assertion is that you must look at the whole operation and the general econmy that it is running in. To single out one entity when it has little to no control over the union is unfair to the other entity. I am not a "Union Hater" as has been asserted, rather, I think they need to share the blame just like "management". How soon we forget NW pilots flying "to the rule of the contract" causing complete havoc at months end early last year. Or the United pilots staging "sick outs"..

And Yes, I agree that the FF programs are not what they used to be... By a LONG shot! I've been doing this for 20+ years and have seen first hand almost every program out there at some level of elite membership. As a Platinum, Delta has treated me fairly well, and yes, their program is now a far cry from what it was. But that is their choice. This is why I USE my FF miles fairly quickly rather than amass millions on the hope that they will have some value. I'm just glad they are still accepting them as a currency!

As to a move to CO, I did that two years ago. IF you get the upgrade, CO provides a nice ride, as good as, and perhaps better than all for domestic first class. But rue the day that you don't get the upgrade. IMHO, CO has one of the most uncormfortable coach classes flying these skies. And most of their fleet is a variation of the 737. A great aircraft, but CO does not put many FC seats in them, so again, don't expect the upgrade. Then there's Newark and Houston. Need I say more?

There are a lot of culprits when it comes to a broad discussion of profitability, but who besides DL management is making strategic and tactical decisions about the loyalty program? All of the airlines are competing in the same crappy economy, so that's no cop out.

As for the product: Different strokes for different swimmers, I guess. I like the CO in-flight experience in Y or F and the airline for a lot of other reasons. Their frequent flyer program is absolutely heads above DL's. I do a lot of international travel and basically want a program to bank my miles so that when I want to use them I can get the intl biz award seats I want at Saver levels without a lot of BS and fees at every turn. I cash out frequently. NW was stellar for that in the past -- no more. Product opinions may be subjective for us all based on circumstance, but when comparing the frequent flyer programs side-by-side, DL/DL-NW is flushing theirs down the tube by comparison. And it doesn't make good business sense at all except for myopic, short term balance sheet reasons.

peace,
~Ben~

I'm an AA plat based in NRT for the past couple of years. I was planning to get elite status on NW this year--mainly to take advantage of better seating options in coach on intra-Asia flights. NW reserves nearly all the seats in the front coach cabin for premium flyers.

If I had status on AS instead would I be able to use this benefit? Does anyone know if DL will continue this benefit?

Sorry, I have to agree with GUWonder and seoulmanjr here. The DL/NW frequent flyer program is going to pot, as a direct result of management's decisions.

Basically if there is a benefit that looks promising on DL, count on it no longerr being around in the long-term. So much has changed in recent weeks for the worst. I know I sound negative, but the airline is intentionally guttting their program. There can be no other excuse.

I'd encourage you to at least consider giving WN a chance. They fly to all the domestic locations you mentioned - Seattle, Portland OR, Salt Lake City, Detroit, Dallas, LAX - and they have no last minute award fees. The thing that I like best - since I'm paying with my own money for most of my travel - is that essentially there's no such thing as a non-refundable ticket in that if your plans change you can apply Ticketless Travel Funds to the purchase of new tickets - for anyone, not just for you - for up to a year from the time of original purchase. You mentioned no nickle-and-diming fees, WN is the clear cut winner when it comes to this.

B6 as well. They both put the legacies to shame in that regard.

peace,
~Ben~

I keep seeing people defend the coming NW changes that screw the customer with the defense that "all the others do it, so its okay". I disagree. Having some benefits that all the others don't have is what keeps loyal customers loyal. When you eliminate those benefits those customers leave.

I am thinking very strongly of matching to CO. Their improvement to OP in that date changes for award tickets are now fee free is a big deal to me. I recently flew CO biz and am in love :D - it was a huge step up from DL biz, in every respect.

My biggest hangup is: how do I earn EQMs or even RDMs flying from PDX up and down the West Coast, to Hawaii, and to Asia? Will I be able to do this on UA (though I hate flying them)? Even as far east as Denver... how do I get there on CO?

There was talk at one point of Jet Blue and Virgin Atlantic joining Star Alliance. Are they still looking at that? My biggest beef with Sky Team is that they currently don't have a Premium Economy product, and that would make a big difference for me. While accrual is big, you have to get there first, and having a decent Premium Economy product might make it a lot easier to achieve status.

bump...

Would AS not still fill this gap?

AFAIK... AS & CO are maintaining their agreement with recip usage of lounges ^^ and earning of CO RDM's in AS MP and AS EQM/RDM's in CO OP... despite joining*

Therefore... PDX-West Coast, select East Coast and even Hawaii would be covered by AS... (including DEN - no SLC yet...)

One year trial
 

I really have no other option than DL / NWA since I fly to places that they fly almost exclusively, but I am planning on dropping to silver after a year trial period, I understand the whole industry is having a tough time and DL seems to give me fairly good service. Honestly I don't think that any of us really were loyal to NWA because of awards, more because of upgrades and service. If we were totally focused on free flights only we could always go to Southwest.

Fingers Crossed that it will get better.