Does this program exist?
 

After surfing around at the different program sites,i am even more lost and confused..i am looking for a good flight program with:

-no miles expiration
-500 points earn minimum, not actual miles flown
-no luggage fees

-any recommendation? Thanks

Well, most US airlines have miles that expire, but only if you have no activity in your account at all for some period of time (often 18 months). Any activity at all - not just flights - extends the life of all your miles. The notable exception is Southwest, which has a harsh expiration policy.

Luggage fees are tougher to figure, because in the current economy, they have been changing so quickly. Do you need to check 2 bags for free, or is 1 free checked bag enough?

mm..one free bag is enough..basicly i have a hard time choosing between Delta, Continental or United..

Where do you want to fly during the course of a year? What's your home airport? How much flying do you expect to do (will you reach elite status)? Do the airlines you are looking at have partners you'll use for domestic or international? Any special deals on award travel?

A lot of things should factor into your decision who to fly. AA still has 500 mile minimums but other factors might dissuade you from flying with them. One of their best awards is an off peak award to Europe or South America for 40K.

Tom in Bellingham, Washington

Both domestic and internationa flights, like France,China,Sweden and Greece.
All twice a year..

random domestic:
SFO-LAX
SFO-MIA
SFO-JFK

Then later:
FLL-SFO
MIA-SFO
MIA-JFK

AA can fly you on their own metal to France (Paris) and China (Shanghai), and there's partners for onward travel to Sweden and Greece. I've used BA for London-Stockholm and IB for Madrid-Athens.

AA flies all of those nonstop, with the exception of FLL-SFO which you could do with a connection at MIA or DFW. I tend not to fly on nonstops and build in connections for extra miles.

CO's policy is that miles expire but they actively do NOT enforce it and have stated such publicly. They are pulling the 500 mile minimum unless you are elite effective in 2009. And CO will charge for the first bag if you aren't elite. So even though they are on your list, it sounds like they don't meet your criteria.

The flights you have listed are enough to be somewhere between the bottom two tiers on a legacy FF program, so with the elite status CO would meet all your needs. Not all of your domestic routes can work non-stop on CO (and you'll have to go to EWR, not JFK). Worth considering that aspect of things.

Please see the definitive list of FFPs mileage expiry thread

So..Who, in your opinion, of Continetal or Delta has the best:

-airport service personel
-customer service when lost luggage
-lounges
-in fligth service
-entertainment system on domstic fligths
-flyer program

is there any ratings on this? so what is your meaning on this? thanks.

DL has more fees/surcharges for straight redemptions than CO does. CO change fees are higher. CO is moving to Star Alliance at some point next year so that will significantly change the partners available for redemption soon.

CO is installing LiveTV starting in January '09 on all their domestic-focused planes, but it will (is expected to) cost $6 in Y for the TV bits and no charge for the "internet" bits that they offer. DL is installing Aircell on their whole fleet for paid internet and they have some of their planes with TVs that are free but they are not planning on installing them on their MD88s, which are a huge chunk of the fleet. Neither is putting IFE on their regional partners and Delta uses them for something like 60% of their domestic flights according to Sky magazine in August.

Lounges are pretty similar. CO's wifi is free for everyone and DL's is only for people with CRC memberships, so there are some limitations there, but nothing significant.

I think that the other bits are all a wash.

I'm very confused, you listed SFO-LAX, and then you picked two airlines that don't fly that route?

The only reason I see to pick either of these for someone based out of SFO is if you don't care about domestic and will just be using someone like Southwest for that, or if you are counting on status-earning partners.

In that case, DL will merge with NW which will do nothig for you domestically (out of SFO), while CO is moving from Skyteam (its alliance with DL and NW) to Star Alliance (with UA, which has a focus city at SFO), so at least with CO you could fly partner flights on UA and then earn CO miles (including status miles) in a year or so.

Further confusing the issue: CO is only going to partner with UA, not merge with it, so CO in two years is likely relatively like CO today, while DL in two years will be half DL and half NW (and we dont' know which half for what). SO evaluating what DL is like today in the very specific terms you're asking about is not likely to mean much for more than the next year or so.

As to frequent flyer program on their own, both are among the most poorly-rated. CO's FFP is officially called OnePass, but most people familiar with it instead call it NonePass after the difficulty of redemption. But Delta with their new three-tier approach has made redemption at "saver" levels harder (than, say, on AA or UA) in the past year too. (But of course it depends a lot on your redemption specifics, there are some people who are able to redeem in any program because they're able to be as flexible as needed or whatever.)

But it all depends on what specifically you want from a frequent flyer program. Because the program that's best of upgrades may not at all be the program that's best for redemptions, for example. So even trying to rate a thing like "frequent flyer program" with one number can be very difficult.

Have you considered Alaska? For most of your routes if you fly AA you can credit those miles to AS and get both elite qualification and redeemable miles. Also, miles from DL, NW and CO can be accrued in AS's mileage plan however CO will not count towards EQM. You can redeem miles on AA, BA, CO, DL, NW, QF etc. (List of AS partners here)

As the OP never mentioned status as being important I don't think it would matter that she (assumption mine) wouldn't be flying AS metal very often although AS and AA do have a couple of flights between SFO and LAX and there is always the option of flying to the east coast xSEA.

What the OP did state as being important in her choice of FF programs were:
-no miles expiration
AS still has a 2 year activity requirement where most have gone to 18 months. Also, AS doesn't charge the fees others do for domestic award tickets - even on partners.
-500 points earn minimum, not actual miles flown
AS still offers this this for both AS and parner segments and given the number of AS/QX (Horizon) routes they fly that are less than 500 miles I don't think this will change anytime soon.
-no luggage fees
AS still doesn't charge for the first checked bag and there are no plans to do so. A second bag is $25.

Given AS's relationship with both OneWorld and SkyTeam members while not aligning itself with either gives the OP, in my opinion, the most flexibility both earning and redeeming given her travel patterns.

Ok..what I am trying to do and figure out is to find a large and good air miles program that will allow me to earn elite status, and still be as flexible as i have to as far as hubs goes.

On short term that means the next 12-18 months i will be flying out of SFO, to both FLL and JFK and the sporadic trip to IAD and PRC.

Then my hub will be FLL/MIA to SFO and JFK an IAD.

Along with my ramdom trips to AMS, CDG,ATH/RHO and OSL Scandinavia.
Thats why Elite status and flexibility is important.
I need to find someone that is good on both domestic and international flights..

I will look into the advice of Alaska, thanks..

The reason I do not think Alaska (AS) will work well for the OP is that they will get almost none of the benefits of the elite status since they will almost never be flying on AS metal. So the potential upgrades, checked baggage fee waiver and 500 mile minimums are not going to matter. CO is keeping the 500 mile minimums for elites, and it doesn't matter at all for someone who is flying mostly transcons.

Keep in mind that probably none of the US airlines fly to all those European destinations. So if things like in-flight experience are important to you, you not only have to evalutate an airline, you have to evaluate its partners.

I'm not sure whether by "OSL Scandinavia" you means just OSL or various places in Scandinavia. If the latter, SAS (in Star Alliance, and thus UA and US now and CO soon) has much much of Norway/Denmark/Sweden sown up to itself, while FInnair (in OneWorld, and thus AA) has much of Finland sown up. AA's OneWorld partner BA will get you to OSL (via LHR) but OneWorld can't get you anywhere else in Norway. (Which is why I collect miles "on the ground" with multiple airlines in different alliances, even if I pursue elite status with only one.! Then, at least on award trip on an airline that's not my primary, I can most of the benefits of status and more by simply booking Business Class awards to Europe.)

And keep in mind that you can't upgrade on alliances in most cases. (You can theoretically do that on Star Alliance from high fares, but good luck finding someone based in the US who's actually managed to get it to happen for them.)

Btw, you are concerned with in-flight expience, but I don't think you explained what of fares you're going to buying. That makes a huge difference in in-flight experience, because on int'l flights the biggest difference in in-flight expereince is between cabins on the same airline much more than between airlines for the same cabin, and thus the in-flight experience may depend on whether you can get into at least Business Class.

But some ailrines (AA) let you upgrade with miles into int'l Business Class from any fares with a co-pay (which you don't pay unless your upgrade clears), while others force you to buy high-priced fares just to qualify for the upgrade (and you have to pay for that high-priced fare class whether your upgrade clears or not).

Also, some airlines allow you to earn miles way faster through off-line activities (like singing up for credit cards over and over again :) ) than others. That sort stuff can make 500-mile minimums irrelevant to "spendable"miles. If you're concerned OTOH about 500-mile minimums for elite-qualifying miles, keep in mind that some ailrines (like Delta) regularly run promotions for earning elite-qualifying miles "on the ground" (car rentals and such), and if you can use a couple of those a year, you'll net a few thousand Delta MQMs which may be much signficant than the MQMs you lost on a few short flights. (You didn't explain how many of your flights will be short enough for the 500-mile minimum to matter. Certainly not SFO to the east coast, and I'm not even sure about FLL/MIA to JFK or IAD.)

Meanwhile, all the legacy airlines you're looking at (including Alaska) make mileage expriation trivial through either online malls and/or dining programs, which are ways to make your normal spending "on the ground" earns you some miles periodically (and earning some miles periodically is all you need to keep miles from expriing). So I don't see why you're worrying about expiration policies as any deciding factor. IMHO you should just pick an airline/alliance on factors you can't "work around" as easily as you can expiration.

I assume your travels will have you involved in a Hotel Loyalty Program as well? If so, have you selected a program? I would recommend, as a way to maximize mileage earning from hotel stays, you go with HHonors and double-dip into a BMI FF account. This will get you 1000 miles PER NIGHT on top of HHonors points. Most other airlines only give 500 miles PER STAY, or 1mile/$ and most other hotel programs only give miles OR hotel points. With 50 nights per year, that's 50k miles redeamable within Star Alliance without ever stepping on a plane.

I would use this pot of miles in addition to another alliance that you actually fly on. Delta within SkyTeam would likely serve you well. Their award redemption fees are escalating but I've never had problems getting a saver with at least a month's notice and some date and/or weekend flexibility. Elites get up to 3 checked bags for free, and weight restrictions are extended as well. SFO-JFK is direct, SFO-FLL and SFO-MIA are connections through ATL or SLC... if you're renting a car, they're close enough that you could chose either-or depending on fare prices. SFO-LAX connects through SLC and becomes a long trip (4.5 hours with a 45 min layover) but I would expected to see that route return when the DL/NW merger somewhat redistributes connection carriers and/or creates a small surplus of mainline aircraft. One of SkyTeam's biggest boons is their coverage of Europe. You'll likely be connecting in ATL and/or JFK alot, and then some in CDG as well, and possibly some in CDG depending on your final destination. SkyTeam's coverage of China is growing as well and, depending on final destination, should not be problematic.

CO just pulled out of the ATH route but otherwise they would've been a viable option for ATH/OSL/CDG/AMS, all from EWR, and AMS/CDG from IAH.

Take a good look at Southwest. Their current program has 24-month rolling expiration, credits per segment so that short hops are amply rewarded, and of course no luggage fees. 32 flights in a year get you automatic check-in (with early boarding) and priority lines to security checkpoints. International partnerships are in the works, starting with WestJet (the Canadian version of Southwest) in 2009.

An overhauled program that Southwest calls Rapid Rewards 2.0 is due out about year from now, well within the current 24-month expiration window. I'm expecting the new program to be points-based, possibly with a more favorable expiration policy. When they change your credits into points, any expiration clock will likely be reset to zero.

The bad news is that points earned in RR 2.0 will be based mostly on ticket price, meaning that short flights won't be as favored as they are now. However this will still be far, far better than a mileage program without the 500-mile minimum. (A 300-mile flight typically costs about 1/3 of the price of a transcon.) Redemption will cost more, at least for today's short-haul customers, but it will be based on cash ticket price. This will eliminate the problem of capacity controls, because redemption prices will reduce members' redemptions of awards for peak travel times. It's all rather clever.

Watch the Southwest forum for a possible signup bonus (could be up to 8 free credits, based on history) tied to Southwest's March entry into MSP. And there are several offers that give you 16 credits for first use of a new Southwest credit card, so don't settle for the 8 credits + 8 for balance transfer.

Thank you so much for all your help and advise. As far as Hotel Loyalty Program goes, I am with Radisson but was thinking of having two different chains with lcoations worlwide..

Best Western is said to have 4000 locations in 80 countries but have no idea how their business hotels are like.

Then we have names like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. Not sure if I want to support Paris Hilton enough to have her face on the tv screen. But they seem to have nice hotels..

Best Western and Radisson or Radisson and Marriott? Any suggestions?

Thanks again.

Hilton Hotels Corp. was bought-out by The Blackstone Group in July 2007... no need to worry about financing Paris.

Well, same kinds of questions as we asked you of airlines: What do you want most out of a hotel program, are you on your own budget or is it expense accounted, etc?

If it's fast earning at low cost of oodles of points that you can redeem at good value, then nothing beats Choice and Priority Club, especially if you're paying for the hotels on your own dime (well, at least where I often stay in Orange County CA, Priority Club has many hotels well under $100 many nights on nights when Hilton has maybe at most one, Marriott has none, and Hyatt often has none less than $150++). You also need to be able to book online (thus not through a company travel agent!) to get some of the best repeatable promos. And it helps a ton if you can "hotel hop" (change hotels nightly).

But if it's upgrades, then the answer is opposite. Upgrades are extremely rare at Best Western and Choice, and hit or miss at many Priority Club proerties. But of course, even with the families that are good for upgrades, it depends on the specific brand: For example, HHonors may decent about upgrades, but if you typically stay at HGIs or non-Suite Hamptons, there's nothing much to be upgraded to (all the rooms are so similar).

Btw, no one has any idea of what BW's business hotels are like. BW's motto is that every hotel is "independently owned and operated", which means on the one hand they're not as cookie cutter as other chains, but on the other hand means there's less consistency than at other chains. So you can't learn much about BW business hotels as a category, you have to evaluate each one (for which there's www.tripadvisor.com).

Greyhound???

Fly more & get a better seat

In my experience, BW hotels in Europe are much higher standard than in the States. OTOH, BW being a much more loosely run consortium, inconsistency is likely.

If you want consistency, I would choose Hilton, Starwood or Marriott. Raddison and BW are far down my list for many reasons.

Cheers

If one takes a good look at Southwest, they will see that the OPs travel pattern doesn't fit w/their flights at all.

AA still has 500 minimums, the miles do expire after 18 months of NO activity whatsoever (not just flight activity) and there is no fee for checked bags when traveling internationally nor do elites have to pay the fee.

Most importantly though, AA flies these routes nonstop (except FLL-SFO)