ozstamps

In my 3 years on FT I have never seen this occur before. Wow - pretty eerie given the timing of the news piece.

Matthew Clement started a very long thread in 'Miles Buzz' April 24, called 'Thai Airlines LHR-BKK for £0!' that ran for several 100 posts and then corrupted for some reason. The first page or so only is now readable.

Before the great bulk of it vanished into cyberspace, I copied every post and commenced a NEW thread, rebuilt showing every post from the original thread. The new thread was called "Thai Airlines LHR-BKK for £0! (Take #2)." The first page of that (with all posts from Matthew's ORIGINAL thread) may be readable until FT file updating etc wipes the file forever which usually happens when they simply vanish off the Forum page. Anyway, here they are right now:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/008638.html

As of yesterday that thread had about 270 posts over 8 pages. I just went to post a London 'Times' news article on this fare boo boo .... and THAT thread not only did not respond to the new post, but vanished from Miles Buzz directory altogether! Thread was about one third way down Buzz page when I replied.

Boy if there were any conspiracy theories about TG hacking into FT ..... what a time to do it, just when "The Times" take up the subject! Just kidding, but interesting timing all the same. (That "Times" post is below btw).

Anyway, for the record, re-built the last 3 of the 8 pages of the "Take #2" thread - and which all follow this post. Assuming we stay trouble free, folks can post to THIS thread in the usual manner. The first 500+ posts are more or less gone, but the story continues ..........

And if John or Michael from Webflyer fix the original somehow, Moderators please close this one down by all means.

===================================

Thai Airlines LHR-BKK for £0! (Take #2!) - the re-built last 3 complete pages of posts from it follow:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/008638.html

===================================
buddman

Posts: 23
From: SE
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 04-24-2003 02:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just back from the ticket office and they are NOT issuing the tickets. They had a prepared statement saying it was an obvious mistake. Sorry all but it was fun hoping.
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f4free

Posts: 150
From: CH, D, USA
Registered: Mar 2003
posted 04-24-2003 03:27 AM
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Let's not give up hope yet - maybe if there's press coverage they will try to turn bad pr into good pr.Can somebody contact British Newspapers and USA Today?

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airoli

Posts: 1317
From: Weisslingen, Switzerland (ZRH)
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 04-24-2003 03:45 AM
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I can't believe that they would possibly honor a £0 fare. And you couldn't possibly claim that you had believed in this fare not to be an error.

But as ozstamps has suggested elsewere, perhaps they could make a lot of good PR out of it by offering a deal such as "we give you the tix for £500" or so...

------------------
truly yours. airOli.

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SMessier

Posts: 3430
From: i said a c, an o, an e, to the coe you don't stop / now what you hear is not a test - - i'm flaming to the beat
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 04-24-2003 03:59 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by brm744:
Come on. Call the media. Don't let Thai off that easy. They should honour them as BA did for the $20-ers and UA has done several times.
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Why should they?

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SAtransplant

Posts: 12
From: Knysna, Western Cape, South Africa
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 04-24-2003 04:20 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by FlyChicago:
. . .
some I.T. person(s) responsible for this glitch will no doubt be canned over this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the error occurred in Thailand, I'd be very surprised to see someone directly punished. In Thai culture, it is the boss' obligation to carry the can for the underpaid peones doing the grunt work.
The hapless peon can be expected to prostate him/herself begging for forgiveness, though.
But the whole episode would normally be treated as a silly mistake worthy of much laughter and xenophobic anger at the farangs (foreigners) taking advantage of Thai efforts to be a first world
outfit. My 2 baht's worth!


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Globaliser

Posts: 684
From: London
Registered: Aug 2002
posted 04-24-2003 04:53 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SAtransplant:
But the whole episode would normally be treated as a silly mistake worthy of much laughter and xenophobic anger at the farangs (foreigners) taking advantage of Thai efforts to be a first world outfit.
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As, in part, should we. It would have been wonderful if it had worked, but as it hasn't but nobody got hurt, it's definitely worth a good laugh.

And, anyway, we weren't taking advantage of their "efforts". The very opportunity was created by their success at incorporating first world e-sales techniques, together with the unintended first world problems those techniques bring with them.

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-24-2003 05:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just received this email :
----- Original Message -----
From: "pilun intarat" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:29 PM

Subject: Notice of Fare Change

24th April 2003


Dear Passengers,

On 23rd April 2003, the prices shown on Thai Airways International's website for flights on the London to Bangkok route contained an error.

All fares quoted for all the applicable classes showed a zero fare.

Although you have sought to make a booking, I regret to inform you that the nature of this unfortunate but obvious mistake was such that Thai Airways International is unable to issue you with tickets on the basis
that no fare is to be paid. The airline would, of course, be pleased to accept bookings on the basis of its usual applicable fares.

I sincerely apologise on behalf of Thai Airways International for any
inconvenience this may have caused you.

Yours faithfully,


Kriangkrai Manomaiphan
General Manager,
United Kingdom & Ireland


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GRM

Posts: 42
From: Leicestershire, UK
Registered: Nov 2002
posted 04-24-2003 05:30 AM
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ozstamps beat me to it.

[This message has been edited by GRM (edited 04-24-2003).]

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-24-2003 07:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well folks, as some might imagine, ( ) I am not just letting this slide quietly. As I have taken a TON of revenue flights on TG in recent times, and being a top tier Star Gold member, I thought I'd give this letter below a shot.

Who knows? I'll pass on anything interesting I might hear. Absolutely Nothing probably, but one never knows with an airline.

I really can't understand why they did not counter offer with a £500 round trip type "good will" deal, given their disastrous loads right now due to SARS. Only a small % of FT'ers would accept anyway, and they then come out of it MUCH better on a PR front, and would gain at least some revenue
from this snafu.

---------------------------------------

Kriangkrai Manomaiphan
General Manager,
United Kingdom & Ireland
Thai Airlines

Good morning from Sydney. Thank you for your email.

I booked 2 of these fares as we imagined it might be some kind of promotional internet special due to the massive flight cancellations you just announced of 300,000 seats on Thai Airways due to the SARS
virus.

Your official TG website accepted my booking, accepted my credit card, and confirmed the booking and the price paid which was £111.70 for the two First Class tickets LHR-BKK-LHR. An official booking
reference PNR was supplied, and I was able to check this was a valid booking on your website confirmation site. All flights were clearly shown as "Confirmed First Class - Status OK".

As far as we are concerned we have a valid and accepted booking by Thai Airways for round trip First Class tickets from London to Bangkok for £111.70.

We are flying to Europe from Australia in July to access these First Class tickets. These tickets to London are now booked.

We are both (top level) '1K' members with your Star Alliance partner United Airlines. You of course have my 1K number in the booking. We both flew over 120,000 paid miles last year with Star Alliance
carriers.

Are you saying you are NOT allowing us to take this flight to BKK from LHR??

What kind of special price or other compensation are you offering us for this cancellation and disruption of our travel arrangements?

United Airlines last year sold 1000s of round trip fares to Europe from the USA for about $25 a ticket. British Airways also sold 1000s of international tickets for about $20 a round trip ticket.
Mexicana Airlines last year sold many 100s of Business Class tickets from all their USA gateways to Puerto Vallarta Mexico for $50 round trip. (We booked and used 2 of these.) These fares were all it seems due to internet website error pricing.

All three airlines cheerfully admitted their error, and honoured the fares. Two of these airlines are your Star Alliance partners in fact. They obtained a GREAT deal of positive International publicity due to this action. Why is Thai Airways not prepared to do the same - and simply honour these fares
for those who booked them in good faith? Or at least offer a low price option to those who DID book your fare you now claim was an error after it was booked?

Hilton Hotels had a computer error in their system last year where the Hilton in San Diego was showing a "$0.00" room rate. The management agreed to allow those who made bookings to stay a night for that "$0.00" rate. And they upgraded their systems I am sure, so that it did not occur again. But
in the meantime, they accepted the error, and allowed a "$0.00" stay.

If Hilton, United, Mexican and British Airways can accept their errors, why cannot Thai Airways?

If bookings to Asia have dropped off as dramatically as your company has just stated due to the SARS virus why NOT honour this booking? Some passengers are better than none surely? Generate some POSITIVE publicity out of this, and not the NEGATIVE publicity that might flow if you simply refuse to honour the bookings passengers made.

We have travelled international Thai Airlines Business Class on 747s both last year and this year, and were looking forward to using your airline again. I have in fact travelled very extensively on TG revenue tickets in recent years - into Vietnam (3 times) Kathmandu Nepal, Phnom Penh Cambodia, and Vi entiane Laos on different vacations. All flights SYD-BKK-SYD were of course on TG in these instances.

I like TG, and hope this incident does not impact on my impression of your airline.

Awaiting your positive confirmation of this request,

Yours Sincerely,

Glen Stephens

Sydney Australia.

Telephone - 24/7 - + 61 2 9958 1333

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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galaba

Posts: 38
From: Denmark
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 04-24-2003 07:33 AM
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maybe they'll cough up some miles as a show of good will???
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Spider

Posts: 2308
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 04-24-2003 07:35 AM
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Way to go , Glen! Keep us updated of any responses.BTW, contacting some major US and UK newspapers might be an excellent idea too.

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Tim2008

Posts: 1423
From: Pangaea Malaga/New York City/London LH SEN,Hilton Gold,*wood Plat,Hyatt Diamond,DL GM
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 04-24-2003 10:08 AM
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My bookings are still listed as confirmed on their website and I got no e-mail yet.
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Mister Nice

Posts: 7
From:
Registered: Mar 2003
posted 04-24-2003 10:24 AM
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Sorry kokonutz but giving the uncollected upgrade to a fellow FT'er doesn't absolve you of yourdishonesty. If one is pious in business transactions, that individual would offer the coupon to thecompany , REGARDLESS of it was asked for or not. I didn't know that there were "levels" of honesty.
You asked UAL for a seat in a particular cabin in exchange for an appropriate fare and one SWU. Bygiving the SWU to another FT'er you/and the other FT'er actually received TWO upgraded seats for one
coupon. How is that different from these folks asking THAI for the seat for nothing? You gladlyaccepted the upgraded seat without compensation for the upgrade. The error on UAL's part,IMHO, of notcollecting the SWU is just as obvious as the THAI fare error. You as a 1K knew that the SWU wassupposed to be surrendered. In fact THAI, during, perhaps, the most depressed period in travelhistory, just got a wonderful database of very frequent flying e-mail addresses and pulled hundredsto their website. Not necessarily a bad move.
IP: Logged

kokonutz

Posts: 3375
From: Hell.
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 04-24-2003 11:34 AM
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My view is very, very different Mr. Nice.
I held that SWU because I have spent lots of money and time with United Airlines. If an upgrade wasnot collected, I can totally reasonably assume that it was because an employee was extending thegoodwill that the company and I share a little bit further. Indeed, this was CLEARLY the case the one
time a SWU was NOT collected. I offered it and the employee said, "Hang on to that. And thanks foryour business." Even if she hadn't said that, I could still reasonably ASSUME that was her intentioneven if, in reality, she just forgot to take them.

This situation is, IMHO, quite different. Folks KNEW this was a mistake. Folks ADMITTED this was amistake even as they booked it. There was NO quid pro quo inherent to this transaction. Thai clearly
accidentally left the safe open, and folks took that as an invitation to take what was inside.

Look, as I keep saying, morality is different for everyone. We all draw our moral lines in differentplaces. The world exits in greys not black and white. But to me, this sort of thing is about as dark
grey as it gets.

Plus, and maybe this is what really bugs me: it takes a really good thing (maximizing benefits offrequent travel) too far, tainting the entire concept. Find a way to get a $0 ticket on TG using aprogram that TG has implemented and I will laud you. But this is just a smash and grab job.

IP: Logged

kokonutz

Posts: 3375
From: Hell.
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 04-24-2003 11:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really expect us to swallow your argument that the airlines actually think it's okay for folksto come in and use their FC lounges for free by buying and then refunding a ticket? Please.
The airlines intend those lounges to be used by people travelling that day. Period. All you are doingis taking advantage of the mistake they made by not having a system in place to ensure that youactually get on a plane that day. What you did is different in scale: you only stole the services of
the FC lounge, not a ticket to Bangkok. But it is the same from a moral perspective.

Or do you also think it's okay to pick up a quarter that's dropped, but not the wad of C-notes?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again, this is IMHO quite different. Airlines have implemented some wacky rules, to be sure.
They MEAN to do this. I am operating within the confines of the rules as intentionally laidout...just in a way they do not expect. But I DO agree that it's not too cool. And I would respectand totally understand if they closed this "loophole".

Yet another analogy: If I go to a supermarket and samples are being offered I COULD go ahead and eatthem all and make a meal of it. But that's not very cool (Homer Simpson's views on the practice
aside). Now if I grabbed the packaged product being promoted and walked out the door with it becausethe stockboy forgot to stamp a price on it, that is entirely different...and likely to land me in
jail.

IP: Logged

andymo99

Posts: 1753
From: BOS - DL PM, SPG Plat
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 04-24-2003 02:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kokonutz:
My view is very, very different Mr. Nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have quite a way of tailoring your code of ethics to your behaviour. (NO, I do NOT think you aretailoring your behaviour to your code of ethics.) Your analysis of the UA agents' intentions is just
marvelous.

I would love to see you write a philosophy paper expounding on your code of ethics... it could becalled "Ethics of Absurdity."

Enjoy hell.

IP: Logged

notsosmart

Posts: 700
From: loisada, nyc
Registered: Oct 2002
posted 04-24-2003 03:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was actually thinking about suing Randy (and also ScottC and MatthewClement, along with Thai) forcausing me to:
1. Lose 6 hours of valuable work time while blood pressure was up 100 points during the whole debacle
2. Come down off the high by drowning myself in low-carb beer

3. Spend the rest of the day and evening crying about what might have been.


I think all of the above would also qualify for punitive damages.


I will be asking for:

1. Lifetime Subscription to Inside Flyer Magazine,

2. Ten round trip tickets anywhere on Tarom in Droit du Seigneur Class

3. 5,000,000 LH miles, that Thai can get me from their * partner. (Why would I want Thai miles?)


I was also considering naming YYZC2 seen as he prolonged my suffering by offering to go pick up thetickets at LHR for me. However, my hastily assembled team of high-powered attorneys talked me out of.
Something about "there's a limit to what even we will sue for". Go figure.

P.S. I first tried to get the New York Times and Wall Street Journal to cover my plight, however,repeated calls to their editorial offices went unanswered. Ch. 7 here in New York also ignored me,though Fox seemed to show some interest as part of an expose on "Un-Americans still traveling overseas."


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f4free

Posts: 150
From: CH, D, USA
Registered: Mar 2003
posted 04-24-2003 05:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I've heard that one Flyertalker was interviewed by a radio station. So at least there has beensome media coverage.
BTW, roughly 800 bookings were made during the time window of 6 to 10 hours were the glitch was onthere. Some bookings contain multiple passangers, so one could assume roughly a thousand tickets werebooked.
IP: Logged

BobbySteel

Posts: 138
From: PDX, ex-DCA, via SMF
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-24-2003 07:03 PM
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The bottom line, koko, is that if you're going to put your business on the internet, you had bettertake it seriously! That's why you won't find BINDING house bidding on the internet (as far as I canfind). When the stakes are high, you had better put in FOOLPROOF systems, and not expect customers toaccept your "oops, we screwed up! haha!"
IP: Logged

BobbySteel

Posts: 138
From: PDX, ex-DCA, via SMF
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-25-2003 10:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And on that note, if you sell something as "Buy It Now" on eBay for $0.01 instead of $1000, you areREQUIRED To sell at that price. No "oops!" allowed.
IP: Logged

ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-25-2003 11:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have now got to the point of having personal email exchanges with the General Manager of Thai UK and Ireland.

First dealt with the assistant, then the PA, and now got the head honcho sending me personal emails.

Initial feeling I get is they are not too excited about doing anything much at all "based on legal advice", but one never knows with me on the case.

IP: Logged

Spider

Posts: 2308
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 04-25-2003 11:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep the pressure up, Glen!
AFAIK, newspapers in the US and UK have been notified of this incident and are ready to get involved... Really bad publicity for Thai!

IP: Logged

BobbySteel

Posts: 138
From: PDX, ex-DCA, via SMF
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-25-2003 11:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen will settle in private probably, then tease the forum without ever giving any details but "he's pleased with the result"
IP: Logged

ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-25-2003 10:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spider:
Keep the pressure up, Glen!

AFAIK, newspapers in the US and UK have been notified of this incident and are ready to get involved... Really bad publicity for Thai!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you know that for sure Spider or just surmise it? Have not read anyone post thus.

Well TG lawyers seem to have told them to hold the line unless there is any media focus on this. If anyone has a spare hour lying heavy on their hands, I have an email list of several 100 USA (mostly)TRAVEL WRITER ONLY email addresses. TV, radio, and print. Anyone that wants them, please email me.

Even Randy asked me for it recently as it appears even they did not have it in such a specific form.

If you send out an email with these folks "bcc'd" in it gets to a LOT of people very fast.

Maybe add on this interesting press piece from BBC News where the Thai Prime Minister is quoted as saying his national airline "sucks". It might make good copy as well as the refusal to offer any solution or offer re the internet error fares, at a time they have had 300,000 cancellations due to
SARS, and are giving away 1000s of freebies right now to media to boost Thai's image and visibility:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1348843.stm

Thai PM: National airline 'sucks'

Thailand's Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has sharply criticised the country's national airline in an interview with a local newspaper, describing it as "terrible".

"If I were not a public figure, I wouldn't fly with Thai. It sucks."

Mr Thaksin slammed Thai Airways International for its high ticket prices, uncomfortable seats and poor service.

The airline's top executive agreed with him, saying improvement were needed.

Prime Minister Shinawatra told the Bangkok Post in its Thursday edition that he was "very happy" when he was not able to get a seat on the carrier.

"Business class on other airlines is better than Thai's first class. Our fares are also higher," he said.

Thai Airways president Pisith Kusalasaiyanond admitted the comments were justified in an interview with local radio, saying the facilities needed to be improved.

=====================


IP: Logged

kempis

Posts: 4177
From: Sweden-KL RW*AC Elite*Hilton Gold VIP
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-26-2003 07:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TG obviously knows who we are with 0GBP tixes since they could send us an email but still all my reservations are still in the system, why? Why didnt TG just cancel all reservations at once?

Afterall we are holding up A seats for the entire summer btw are you talking to Mr Kriangkrai Manomaiphan Glen?

IP: Logged

SMessier

Posts: 3430
From: i said a c, an o, an e, to the coe you don't stop / now what you hear is not a test - - i'm
flaming to the beat
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 04-26-2003 11:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kempis:
TG obviously knows who we are with 0GBP tixes since they could send us an email but still all myreservations are still in the system, why? Why didnt TG just cancel all reservations at once?Afterall we are holding up A seats for the entire summer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps they think it's a better idea to let all these unticketed reservations get canceled on theirown at midnight tonight (as per the fare rules?)

IP: Logged

kempis

Posts: 4177
From: Sweden-KL RW*AC Elite*Hilton Gold VIP
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-27-2003 06:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All my bookings are still there
IP: Logged

SMessier

Posts: 3430
From: i said a c, an o, an e, to the coe you don't stop / now what you hear is not a test - - i'mflaming to the beat
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 04-27-2003 11:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kempis:
All my bookings are still there
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My one booking is still there as well. Perhaps someone will come in and clean up on Monday?
Surprising they didn't cancel them at the first chance they had. Especially for those who, like me,didn't even make an attempt to have their reservations ticketed, I don't see what legitimate complaints we might have.

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yonatan

Posts: 552
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-28-2003 05:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry for jumping in after only skimming, but 6 pages is an awful lot to read, and if I'm waisting your time with this post you're free to ignore it.
If I understand correctly, Thai charged some peoples' credit cards but then tried not to honor the
fare, is that correct?

I was one of those who benefited from the $350 tickets to Australia two years ago. You'll recall that
Travelocity claimed Qantas wouldn't honor them. From the research my family and I did (including
speaking with a lawyer in the US), it appeared that there's a principle in common law as follows:

1. If a business makes an obvious pricing mistake, it can refuse to honor the price "up to the cash
register", with the understanding that the error will be fixed immediately (otherwise it's
bait-and-switch).

2. Once the business has taken payment (e.g. charged your cc), it has accepted your "offer" to
purchase at the stated price and is now in a binding contractual relationship with you that can't be
unilaterally voided.

After sending some strongly-worded letters to Travelocity refering to the above, they decided to abandon their preferred course of unilateral "solutions" to the problem (cancelling the tix and giving us vouchers for $25) and finally started negotiating with us. We happily settled for discounted economy tix to OZ from our respective places of residence (CA, Western Europe) for $350
(Travelocity made up the $800 difference).

hth

Yonatan

IP: Logged

SMessier

Posts: 3430
From: i said a c, an o, an e, to the coe you don't stop / now what you hear is not a test - - i'm flaming to the beat
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 04-28-2003 05:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yonatan:
If I understand correctly, Thai charged some peoples' credit cards but then tried not to honor the fare, is that correct?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless I missed something, no credit cards were charged, as paper tickets (no etickets are available for this route) must be issued at a CTO in the country where the trip begins. Those that have made it to a CTO reported that TG has said they will not honor the fare/issue the ticket.

Some of the credit card discussion comes from the fact that one could enter his cc #, though the disclaimer about this being necessary only for etickets was given.

IP: Logged

LondonElite

Posts: 920
From: London, UK
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 04-28-2003 06:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...and all of this was underscored by the stated requirement to pick up and pay for the tickets at the TG CTO in London ("the cash register").

At the cash register they said "sorry, our mistake."

As we've said before, fun, but over.

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chfenton

Posts: 187
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 04-28-2003 06:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, too to jump in. I had read this thread when there was only 20 or so responses, I came back today to see over 200?
What a sad day for our society that we have so many, otherwise assumingly rather intelligent people, try to take advantage of something such as an honest mistake simply because it is to their benefit? I don't know, I guess my ethical standards are set much higher than some of you.

What if it was the other way around? You pay $500 for a ticket as that was the fare you saw and booked on the web and when you go to ticket they come back and say oops sorry that was a keypunch error-that ticket should have been $50. Can anyone honestly say they wouldn't accept the refund? Of course not!

The point is mistakes happen and they should be rectified. Many times companies out of goodwill will honor mistakes in their customers favor, but to continue to fight a blatant error-after being told it was an error- well IMO its just sleazy and hopefully for all your sakes you can sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror.

In the first few posts, it was clear that everyone thought it was a mistake. Other foot, what if the shoe was on the other foot is all I keep thinking. I've made mistakes at work, I'm sure most have.

And I'm sure computer keypunch mistakes are rather easy to make.

And as far as being a binding contract, where is the consideration?-as I understand a contract is not valid without an offer, acceptance, consideration etc... IF they did not take your money, I think the case is further weakened, but again it shouldn't matter- IT WAS A MISTAKE. I bet those that believe they should receive something for nothing probably look at every ad received on Sunday to see if their was a misprint on the price of a big screen TV so they can go argue for that too.

Just wanted to offer my own opinion.

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kempis

Posts: 4177
From: Sweden-KL RW*AC Elite*Hilton Gold VIP
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-28-2003 06:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If only this price would have been on FRA-BKK instead.....
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House

Posts: 486
From: IAD LHR; UA 2P; LH SEN
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 04-28-2003 08:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chfenton:
I bet those that believe they should receive something for nothing probably look at every ad received on Sunday to see if their was a misprint on the price of a big screen TV so they can go argue for
that too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with a lot of what you said, but UK law states that if you advertise something at a price, and someone agrees to buy it, then you must sell it at the advertised price, EVEN if it is a mistake.
I'm not saying I agree with this law, but it's there. In you Sunday supplement example, if a widescreen TV was advertised at a fraction of the full price then, unless it could be shown to be the fault of the newspaper printers, the mistake would have to be honoured for a reasonable period.

IP: Logged

Spiff

Posts: 7758
From: Louisville, KY AA EXP , QF Silver, DL PM (for now) , HH Gold, SPG Gold
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-28-2003 08:13 AM
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Has anyone's miles posted yet? Did you get the class of service bonus too?


jral

Posts: 541
From: 44*38.670N 63*37.548W AC*E & AS MVP
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 04-28-2003 08:23 AM
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It made some press:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133949,00.html

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-28-2003 08:33 AM
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Great story! Thanks for posting this.
Do we know if Hannah Evershed is a Flyertalker?

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-28-2003 08:38 AM
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If anyone wants that detailed list of 100s of TRAVEL WRITERS I have here with phone numbers and their EMAILS, please contact me.
This might not be over quite yet.

Oh, and my emails finally got me to the verytop of the food chain over there, and bypassed the flunkies and PA's etc. For anyone wanting to email direct the General Manager, UK and Ireland, try this:

The UK GM is - [email protected]

------------------
~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 04-28-2003).]

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Spider

Posts: 2308
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 04-28-2003 09:14 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by yonatan:
I was one of those who benefited from the $350 tickets to Australia two years ago. Yonatan
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I am so glad to hear that someone remembers the special deal I found ex-TLL! BTW, all pax who flew on tix booked by me got the full Y-fare and miles accordingly. Not bad paying $350 for 80K AA points (that's what my friends got anyway)!!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by House:
UK law states that if you advertise something at a price, and someone agrees to buy it, then you must sell it at the advertised price, EVEN if it is a mistake. I'm not saying I agree with this law, but
it's there. In you Sunday supplement example, if a widescreen TV was advertised at a fraction of the full price then, unless it could be shown to be the fault of the newspaper printers, the mistake would have to be honoured for a reasonable period.
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I tend to agree. Very similar law applies in Australia and New Zealand (maybe coz its based on English Common Law ? ).

About 10 years ago, a relative of mine saw a camera advertised for a very cheap price. He went in and wanted to buy it. The shopkeeper told him that the price was a mistake, so my relo went home, took his old camera and took a photo of the camera along with its price displayed in the shop window. Andhe sent the photos along with a letter to the Department of Consumer Affairs (very similar to BBB).

Within a week, the store called him and advised that the camera he desired was ready for pick-up atthe price seen in the window!

Maybe someone should contact a similar department in the U.K. ?


quote:
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Originally posted by jral:
It made some press:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133949,00.html
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[/URL]
Great news! Like it was mentioned before, the press was notified... (btw, I am not Hannah).

[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 04-28-2003).]

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NickW

Posts: 99
From: Bath, UK. SPG Platinum; HHonors Gold; AmEx Black :-)
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 04-28-2003 12:37 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Spider:
I tend to agree. Very similar law applies in Australia and New Zealand (maybe coz its based on English Common Law ? ).

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Allow me to restate that, IMHO, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of you persuading Thai to honour your bookings by recourse to the law.

Find me an English lawyer who tells you that there is a binding contract in this case, and I'll point you out a bad lawyer. Find one that reckons the consumer protection legislation will compel the vendor to sell at a mistakenly advertised price, and I'll point you out another bad lawyer.


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Guy Betsy

Posts: 4072
From: T/A from SAN. Move to YVR by July 2003
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-28-2003 12:57 PM
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THAI's website is in Thailand.
Besides, this is THAI AIRWAYS. This is ASIA.

Those who have lived in ASIA know that nothing is guaranteed. Even if you have a ticket on hand. You might be just refused boarding at the gate and asked to pay fare difference.

Or worse... being humilated at the counter for attempting to cheat the airline.


[This message has been edited by Guy Betsy (edited 04-28-2003).]

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-28-2003 01:07 PM
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Agree entirely with the last 2 posts.
It is Thai BRITAIN who are dealing with this however, and they have to try and sell tickets from that market, and will not want bad press at this time of ALL times. Planes are 20% full as it is, due to SARS.

I do remember with a smile-how UA reacted to the 100s of $25 fares from west cost to Europe many FT'ers booked last year on a website error.

For first few days official party line via their PR flacks was "NO WAY ARE WE FLYING ANYONE TO EUROPE FOR $25. FERRGEDDABOUT IT YOU CHEAP JERKS."

After the media kicked their butt the official party line change to: "Gee some of our best customers got lucky. They found an error we made. Shucks, well it is all our fault after all. We wish them well, and hope they all have a lovely $25 flight to Europe."

It was the genuine 180º turnaround - - all because of some media spotlight they did not like.

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mtacchi

Posts: 1120
From: Winnipeg,Canada--Starwood Platinum, BA IS THE BEST fly BA or don't go at all.
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 04-28-2003 05:40 PM
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For what is worth OZ, I wrote a letter to the email provided. We'll see what comes, although , like others I'm am sckeptical of ever flying to BKK in 1st on Thai.
Doesn't hurt to wirte a letter though.

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Toxa

Posts: 837
From: Brasil, The Netherlands and Hong Kong
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 04-28-2003 08:54 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ozstamps:
Initial feeling I get is they are not too excited about doing anything much at all "based on legal
advice", but one never knows with me on the case.
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Let's not forget the guys at Thai should love you for all that Bath Run revenue

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ScottC

Posts: 7739
From: ORD - AYBBABTU - COET Alliance Founding member. Join the *HOT* deals list: www.tarom.net/deals
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 04-28-2003 09:15 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ozstamps:
Agree entirely with the last 2 posts.
It is Thai BRITAIN who are dealing with this however, and they have to try and sell tickets from that market, and will not want bad press at this time of ALL times. Planes are 20% full as it is, due to SARS.

I do remember with a smile-how UA reacted to the 100s of $25 fares from west cost to Europe many FT'ers booked last year on a website error.

For first few days official party line via their PR flacks was "NO WAY ARE WE FLYING ANYONE TO EUROPE FOR $25. FERRGEDDABOUT IT YOU CHEAP JERKS."

After the media kicked their butt the official party line change to: "Gee some of our best customers got lucky. They found an error we made. Shucks, well it is all our fault after all. We wish them well, and hope they all have a lovely $25 flight to Europe."

It was the genuine 180º turnaround - - all because of some media spotlight they did not like.


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Sadly I disagree here, this isn't bad press, I doubt anyone will decide not to fly Thai after reading that some people didn't get a ticket worth $3000 for GBP55... In a weeks time everyone will have forgotten about it.

There are more cases where the error isn't honoured than those that are...

However, keep writing, perhaps they will change their mind and offer something...


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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-28-2003 11:34 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Toxa:
Let's not forget the guys at Thai should love you for all that Bath Run revenue


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Yikes.

If I told them I was in no small way responsible for a few 1000 TG seats being sold for about $8 a sector so a bunch of FlyerTalkers could make 1K for under $1000 in Northern Thailand I'd probably be
banned forever from flying TG!

And UA would probably lynch me too as for most of those guys they needed to hand out TWELVE SWU's to those making 1K doing that "Baht Run".

I guess if they sold a few 1000 seats it was all good business for Thai, as that WAS the official published price of those tickets at the time for some reason. Just that on Flyertalk we made the world aware of it.

I think the other "Baht Run" co-promoter tvl4free is up there in Thailand right now, and Mr Key (first FT'er to take the run) emailed me about it only yesterday.


------------------
~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

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yonatan

Posts: 552
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-29-2003 03:16 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spider:
I am so glad to hear that someone remembers the special deal I found ex-TLL! BTW, all pax who flew on tix booked by me got the full Y-fare and miles accordingly. Not bad paying $350 for 80K AA points (that's what my friends got anyway)!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spider, sorry for not aknowledging. It was the only time I was able to take advantage of one of those glitches thanks to your quick action.

I bought the tickets simply because my family had just reestablished contact with elderly relatives in Australia and were looking for a cheap way to get there. We got it thanks to you! Incidentally, for the same price to Travelocity as my mom and sister's CA-OZ-CA tickets (1223), I got myself a
bargain RTW that allowed me to stop in SIN and LAX on the way ex-BRU, as well as two domestic flights within OZ.

Yonatan

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beergut

Posts: 627
From: UK
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 04-29-2003 09:35 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by House:
I agree with a lot of what you said, but UK law states that if you advertise something at a price, and someone agrees to buy it, then you must sell it at the advertised price, EVEN if it is a mistake.
I'm not saying I agree with this law, but it's there. In you Sunday supplement example, if a widescreen TV was advertised at a fraction of the full price then, unless it could be shown to be the fault of the newspaper printers, the mistake would have to be honoured for a reasonable period.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No it doesn't, there's no contract until the offer has been accepted and money changes hands.

In this case Thai didn't charge anyone's cards.

Nigel


Nigel

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ozstamps

Posts: 13840
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 04-29-2003 10:30 AM
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In this country under Consumer Protection laws it is an offense for any merchant to advertise something they cannot or will not deliver. Full stop. No discussion.
If a merchant makes an error in a Sunday newspaper ad for a Plasma TV for $9.99 and not $999, they are obliged to sell some product at that price. A "reasonable" amount of product is the specification. Government's reasoning - be careful to CHECK your ad copy and proofs, or in-store
marked price. Otherwise EVERY cowboy retailer will fill newspapers full of 'bait and switch' nonsense. The same protection is offered on oz based website offers.

I worked for years in the Advertising Department as an Account Executive at Australia's leading retailer so I am up to speed on this. Now as for THAILAND ...........

================================================== ==============


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 04-29-2003).]

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Spider

Posts: 2308
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 04-29-2003 10:37 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yonatan:
Spider, sorry for not aknowledging. It was the only time I was able to take advantage of one of those glitches thanks to your quick action.Yonatan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No need to apologize. I was really happy at the time that I found this awesome deal and could share it with the rest of our community. I only wish that more people could have taken advantage of it.

BTW, my g/f was able to turn this fare into a RTW trip as Qantas changed her flight (as per her request) to QF107 - SYD-NYC. For some strange reason she chose to discard the JFK-LHR-TLL coupons...

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Spider

Posts: 2308
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 04-29-2003 10:45 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ozstamps:
In this country under Consumer Protection laws it is an offense for any merchant to advertise something they cannot or will not deliver. Full stop. No discussion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wish the same applied to used car dealers who sadly seem to be above that law as it is impossible to prove that car X which was advertised for $10,000 and "sold" the minute the dealership opened was not really meant for sale after all.

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ozzie

Posts: 648
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 04-29-2003 11:30 AM
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As far as consumer protection law goes, there is no similar general "misleading and deceptiveconduct" provision

hindukid

Posts: 233
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Jul 2001 posted 04-30-2003 10:41 PM

If I were Thai I'd offer those who bought tickets RT in Coach with space available upgrades for $100.
Planes are empty so it shouldn't really cost them much and it would probably be good PR. Plus a lotof people would probably not cash in anyways.
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kokonutz

Posts: 3371
From: Hell.
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 05-01-2003 10:31 AM

Glen: You know I love ya, babe...but it DID strike me as ironic when I saw this post:
quote:

Many wise people in the past have repeated a simple saying:
"If it SOUNDS too good to be true, it probably IS."
Good luck folks. I am not touching this one.

------------------
~ Glen ~


[ducking]
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ozstamps

Posts: 13838
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000 posted 05-01-2003 10:48 AM

quote:

Originally posted by kokonutz:
Glen: You know I love ya, babe...but it DID strike me as ironic when I saw this post:
[ducking]


kokonutz ... even when you are done with the ducking and the sheeping and the whatever else, surely you gotta agree 5000 'remotely maybe' miles from AA via those froot loops you link to, and a free 'remotely maybe FIRST CLASS' ticket on the glorious 1980s TG cabin are 2 different animals?

For one thing, there is no 'maybe champagne' comes with the maybe 5000 miles.

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kokonutz

Posts: 3371
From: Hell.
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 05-01-2003 11:08 AM

Nor 'maybe pad thai.'
Nevertheless:
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Bond Boy

Posts: 326
From: Scotland - HH Gold, *wood Gold, bmi Gold, BA Silver
Registered: Jan 2003 posted 05-01-2003 04:10 PM


quote:

Originally posted by NickW:
Where in the Trade Descriptions Act is it written that violation of the Act gives the consumer a right to specific performance?


You're right Nick, it is not...but you get to sit back and watch them get run around the mill by the guys in the Trading Standards Office if they refuse to give you the goods at the price for which they
were advertised. A lot of people get the legislation around Consumer Protection mixed up with the law and precedent around Contract Law.
quote:

Originally posted by Globaliser:
I'd always thought that consideration could be non-monetary


Again correct... Consideration must be "Adequate yet not sufficient" (ie Adequate enough to form a cotract but not need to be sufficient for the goods concerned - the case of the £1 Rolls Royce comes being binding to mind).
quote:

Originally posted by Globaliser:
You're a horror. You actually got me as far as pulling Chitty off the shelf. But I quickly put it
back.


You had me going back ten years here to my LLB days...I hate you all (Can't find Chitty anyway for all the dust)
As far as the law is concerned, if they had charged you £0.01 for the flight - easy...you are entitlaed to it (but you might have to fight for it). If not, very hard and up to your own bargaining/ threatening with trading standards skills.

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NickW

Posts: 94
From: Bath, UK. SPG Platinum; HHonors Gold; AmEx Black :-)
Registered: Feb 2003 posted 05-01-2003 04:22 PM

Oh, I absolutely agree about the TSO; my question was actually prompted by an assertion that the Act meant that a seller had to sell goods at an advertised price, which does imply a remedy that isn't
generally avaiable for breach.
And let's not forget the 'peppercorn rent' when considering our unusual forms of consideration Hrm, this is turning into the barrack-room lawyer board; with apologies to those who do it for a living!

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PremEx

Posts: 10043
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Registered: posted 05-01-2003 06:39 PM

Just to add to the mix, here in the U.S. I seem to recall distinctions between errors on "advertised prices" and just errors in "prices." With an advertised price being one that is touted specifically in a published advertisement of some sort. Not just an error on a general price list.
What I'm trying to say is that if Mattel Toys mails out price lists and it shows Barbie as $1.90 in error instead of $11.90, here in the U.S. there is a distinction between that sometimes and a truely
"advertised price."
You might place an order for a couple of thousand Barbie's at $1.90, but they don't have to sell or ship 'em to you at that price.
And I would also tend to think that "going to" a web site and "finding" a fare that turned out to be an error would be a different thing entirely, than responding to an "advertised" price.
Because when you access their web site, are you responding to an ad of a specific price in the U.K.?
I don't think so. In effect, you called them by accessing their site on the internet, right? Does this constitute "advertising a specific price in the U.K.?" I don't really know where their servers are, but isn't this a bit like you calling up a company in Thailand on the phone, and asking for a
price list to be sent to you (in this case, displayed to you), rather than being lured in by an advertisement published in your home country of the U.K.?
If you're going to sue anyone for false advertising, it should be...Matthew Clement!!
[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 05-01-2003).]
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quote:

Originally posted by ozstamps:

Well folks, as some might imagine, ( ) I am not just letting this slide quietly. As I have taken a TON of revenue flights on TG in recent times, and being a top tier Star Gold member, I thought I'd give this letter below a shot.

Who knows? I'll pass on anything interesting I might hear. Absolutely Nothing probably, but one never knows with an airline.

I really can't understand why they did not counter offer with a £500 round trip type "good will" deal, given their disastrous loads right now due to SARS. Only a small % of FT'ers would accept anyway, and they then come out of it MUCH better on a PR front, and would gain at least some revenue
from this snafu.
---------------------------------------
Globaliser

Posts: 684
From: London
Registered: Aug 2002 posted 05-02-2003 01:42 AM

Actually, ozstamps, have you had any further response from TG?
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ozstamps

Posts: 13838
From: Sydney OZ. KLM Platinum. UA 1K. SPG & HH Gold. From seat 15B on a 747 near you!
Registered: Jun 2000 posted 05-02-2003 04:17 AM


Sure have Globaliser.
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Spider

Posts: 2302
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000 posted 05-02-2003 06:52 AM


quote:

Originally posted by ozstamps:
Sure have Globaliser.


And is this correspondence promising?
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terenz

Posts: 5492
From: YVR US loyal-but-liquidating cockroach AAPLT going to GLD KLPE HHGVIP
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 05-02-2003 07:12 AM

I'd imagine the TG response is of the P.O.A.D./F.O.A.D. variety?
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Spider

Posts: 2302
From: Sydney, AU
Registered: Mar 2000 posted 05-04-2003 08:09 AM

A bad response is better than nothing. Especially, when media seems to be picking up this fiasco...
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------------------
~ Glen ~

ozstamps

Well .... with acknowledgment to drbala for the link - things are moving along with this issue, via no less than 'The Times' of London. Seems like 1.500 folks booked these '£0' tickets.

If anyone wants to pass this on to the Media list ..... a piece from the Times is the perfect piece to attach. Which FT user is Rod Stannard? :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...665931,00.html

£6,200 tickets for 'free'?

A group is considering legal action after a Thai Airways web mistake.

Tom Chesshyre reports

IT sounded too good to be true - free first class tickets to Thailand, with just £55 taxes to pay.

So, for eight hours, a frenzy of e-mails among friends spread news of the incredible prices, first spotted on the Thai Airways website at midday on April 23. By the time the Thai national carrier had shut down the "offer" at 8pm, more than 1,500 people had booked and were looking forward to the
ultimate cheap deal.

Now, despite many receiving e-mail confirmations, Thai Airways says the prices were a "mistake" and it is refusing to honour the bookings, which usually cost about £6,200.

However, a group of disgruntled customers is refusing to let the matter rest and is considering legal action, hoping that the courts will force the airline to issue the tickets.

Rob Stannard, 35, an IT consultant from Huntingdon, Cambs, has joined forces with three colleagues who also booked tickets to consider group action. Should the other 1,500 "free ticket" customers do the same - and win - it could cost Thai Airways more than £9 million.

Stannard said: "We were sent confirmations, so the decision not to honour them is clearly misguided.

I was hugely disappointed - it had seemed a mega-bargain. I thought Thai Airways was hitting its competitors, who were struggling because of Sars."

The Consumers' Association believes that the group could have a case, although it expects that most County Court judges would rule that such a huge discrepancy between the usual price and what was offered would make it hard for them to win.

This is because the law requires that people who buy a product when it has been mistakenly sold at a low price must prove that they could have "reasonably expected" to buy it at that price.

If they are unable to convince a judge that they thought the price was "reasonable", it could be ruled that the purchase was based on a "unilateral mistake" - ie, that the seller had made a pricing mistake, and the buyer had knowingly taken advantage of this.

A CA legal spokesman said: "It could be construed that as it is such a large amount of money, £6,200, they did realise that something was amiss."

But he added that as any ruling would be made under general contract law, which is based on precedent, there is an outside chance that the group could convince a judge.

Trading Standards believes the group might also have redress through the Consumer Protection Act (1987), which requires that, even if Thai Airways made a mistake, it must prove that a system of "due diligence" was in place to prevent further errors. A spokesman said: "It should have shut the site
immediately."

Thai Airways said the prices were an "error" and apologised. It refused to comment about the potential legal case.

etc, etc.

CoachClass

Did any other media outlets follow up on The London Times?

f4free

Well, I bet my radio station was the first to interview them

(I did sent an e-mail to three or four big international newspapers giving them a lead, including a general e-mail adress for the times. I guess it was probably deleted before it got to the right place. I wouldn't suggest them not quoting the "primeur publisher" ...)

f4free

OZStamps

PLEASE share the reply you got from Thai !!! I dediced against following up, mainly because my girlfriend wasn't enthused. But you know, if, ....

Thank you ...

dddc

Looks like the ball is rolling!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_j...957357,00.html

UpgradeMe

Rhymes with shyster?

SkiAdcock

Oh good grief everyone. Give it up already. Geesh.

If TA had honored it it would have been fun, but everyone knew going in it was a glitch & tried to take advantage of it, hoping it would work out. At the Freddies some of us discussed it & said if it worked great, if not it was a bit of fun & fun to read all the posts as people frantically tried to book.

But to now b--ch & moan & say what horrible people TA are because they're not honoring an obvious error, give me a break. Put your energy into more positive directions - like supporting the saveskymiles folk, who are FTers. That might actually help to accomplish something good.

------------------
Sharon

drbala

I have sent 8 emails to Thai asking for redress of grievances No reply at all

dbaker

what a travesty -- to see such a loyal, honest consumer victimized in this way by a heartless corporation.

kempis

London solicitor and consumer and aviation expert Ian Guyster, who is acting for several hundred passengers whose flights were abruptly cancelled when Ryanair took over Buzz, is considering commencing a group action on behalf of Thai passengers.

So who has been in contact with this Ian Guyster?

Personally I have let this thing go. It was fun while it lasted and it would have been fun to fly in F but I have NO plans to take Thai to court for this thing.

Football Fan

Just stumbled across this thread for the first time. This is actually a rather interesting case.

Whoever said "show me a lawyer who says this case can be won against Thai and I show you a bad lawyer" might just be sadly mistaken.

Just a question - when you do a booking through Thai's website, are you forced to go through a screen with their terms and conditions? (I assume this is the case, but it might also matter just how these are presented.) And if so, does anyone have a copy of those?

I definitely think that - whatever one might think about this from a moral standpoint - it could definitely very well be worth something for these 1,500 people to have someone have a deeper look into this for them.

Guava

I haven't booked any of these tickets as those were pretty much useless to me for various reasons, but I did receive a call from a friend telling me about the deal. So I didn't find out about this from Flyertalk first even though I am a frequent poster here.

Now given I have no interest in this, allow me saying something in all fairness: I think Mr. Guyster made a very good point. In order for Thai to be relieved of any responsibilities, Thai would have to prove that all 1,500 passengers entered the contract in bad faith, that is all of them know this was obviously mistaken. I will agree that most of if not the quasi-totality of the 1,500 passengers probably knew it was a mistake but the burden of proving it lies on the airline. So there is definite a chance that a court might rule in favor of the consumers rather than the airline. Personally, I wish to see the case to go to the court because it would indeed be the first modern legal case when a mistaken internet offer is made and I am very curious about the outcome. Depending on the ruling, it could have a significant impact on other western countries using similar court systems as well.

Interesting

RS

Maybe it wasn't a mistake by Thai. Maybe they just wanted to fill up a couple of planes and forgot to turn the freebie offer off.

Maybe the Bush tax cut will create 1,400,000 jobs. Who knows?

Football Fan

I don't think so...not the first case.

Anyway, there are a few interesting things in this case (all I know about it is from this thread, so these are just some random and unstructured thoughts without having done any proper research on the case):

It is one thing if a company mistakenly advertises a wrong price - since the advertisement often constitutes a mere invitation to the potential customers to make an offer, even if the customer reacts to the advertising and says "I'll take it for that price", there is still time for the company to prevent a binding contract from being formed by then realizing their mistake, since they still have to accept the customer's offer.

However, in this case, not only was the booking accepted, but they sent a confirmation etc. - as outlined in one of ozstamps' initial posts.

To speak in layman's terms - there has to be a point where the company cannot just get out of the deal anymore and say "sorry, we made a mistake".

Now, there are a lot of factors in a case like this that could influence the potential outcome one way or another. I mentioned the terms and conditions already.

Another question that arises from ozstamps' post is what happens with regards to customers relying on the confirmation of the contract (not on the offer! but they got a confirmation!) and booking additional tickets elsewhere to be able to take advantage of the offer.

There have been other promotions before where tickets have been sold for seemingly unbelievable prices - actually, these promotions are all over the place when it comes to low-cost carriers, but even some of the big carriers have had these. So how can the airline prove bad faith in all cases - where would "bad faith" start and where would it end? What if the fare had mistakenly been § 300? Still an unbelievable price for a first-class ticket, but would it have been evident that it was a mistake? Did it have to be evident to the customer when first class seats are sometimes given away just for having a certain credit card (companion goes free, etc.)?

Wouldn't it be the airline's duty to have some safeguard system that does a double-check to prevent errors like this? If they do not make the investment or the effort to do this and then send out confirmations - I would not be the first person to argue with someone who would say "tough luck, TG!".

The airline must have hired some good lawyers already...I'd think that if they just believe everyone affected will just say "oh well" and forget about it, they would be naive.