When I purchased my car three months ago, I went to both Honda and Toyota dealers and the Honda Manager told me that’s he can take only an X amount on the credit because he wasn’t going to pay the extra fee… He said he’d rather just not deal than have to pay the fee… All the dealers had the same tone when asked about putting it on Credit but the others wheren't that stern as the manager…

Gee, you would think that the above quoted post would put this thread to bed for good. Car dealers can do or not do anything they want to. There really are no unbreakable rules. Not all that long ago, I bought a $25,000 car with my UAL MP Visa. After the deal was agreed on, I mentioned I needed to put it on a card. Dealer said no. I said Goodbye. Dealer said well, OK. But... It doesn't have to be quite that harsh. If the REALLY want to sell you the car and they DON'T smell blood (read the earlier posts--from some of you they will), you can always go back and forth a bit. It's costs them about 2% on a Visa. If you just let them add 2% to the final car price, you are buying miles for .02 and not costing them a thing. You SHOULD be able to do better than that. Remember these guys have a LOT of profit to play with and the salesman even can fool with his commission. Anything is negotiable. Remember, after the deal is all made, the dealer will take another shot at you with his F&I guy trying to sell you more stuff you don't need. Just shows that no deal is final until you are gone with the car.

Be tough!!!
 

Totally agree! As I said, I called them first and said I was going to pay 100% with credit card or not buy at all. (Magically, they agreed.)

If you are not prepared to walk away, why would a dealership agree to give you anything. You must be tough or at least firm in these negotiations.

Good Luck,
SC

How many of us have had dealers say they just can't go any lower than a certain price, or don't want to give us any more on our trade? That stuff is negotiable and maybe they won't go beyond a certain price but it's not that they can't. And as many posts on this thread have pointed out, once you negotiate a price, they have contract with VISA, AMEX etc. which requires them to accept your card in full. It's not a question of whether they want to or not. It's a question of whether you are willing to call VISA and report them for not fulfilling their contract. There may be good reasons why you choose not to, but just because they give you a nasty tone don't assume you are out of options.

Just bought
 

Just bought a new Chrysler with AMEX CC. They would allow $5,000 w/o charge, then 2.5% for the balance, so was able to charge it all.

Wait a minute.. These businesses want the benefits of accepting credit cards, but do not want to abide by the rules? They either accept credit cards or they do not accept credit cards.

When I try to pay with my Amex at some places, I'm told there is a "minimum charge." When I remind them that it is against their merchant agreement, I usually get "the look" and my card is then accepted. If they still reject my card, I call Amex and report them. Sorry, but I have the card because I usually carry no cash unless I know I'm going to need it.

Honestly, the fact that some small business owners are "trying to make ends meet" and "trying to support their families" is none of my business.

I think he was really saying this is the reason they are not reported.

Personally I think the credit card companies SHOULD allow merchants to set a small minimum, or else they should charge merchants a lower fee when small purchases are made.

In some ways I wish I shared your attitude of not caring about the other guy as long as I get mine, things might be simpler if I could say "screw you" that easily, but I think my life would be poorer in many other ways if I did. Perhaps when you get past your early 30s you'll gain a bit more understanding of the others we share this planet with, some of whom don't have whatever advantages you do, and mellow out a bit. There are more important things in this life than forcing someone to give you nine airline miles for a Chinese take-out lunch, when the 30 to 50¢ he pays Visa for the privilege is more than his margin on your meal.

I orderd a new car that will arrive in about two weeks. In preparation for payment I called Amex to be sure that they would back me up should there be a problem with paying in full with their credit card. What I was told surprised me and I wonder if I got the correct info. They said that if a maximum amount was set for all credit cards (Visa, MC, etc.) then they can set a maximum for Amex as well. Only if they allow full payment for the other cards do they have to allow full payment using Ames. Furthermore I was told that there are different merchant agreements with different vendors and some of these agreements allow for minimum/maximum payments. This is in direct contradiction to what I have been reading on this thread and I wonder if I have been given the correct information. Is there a particular Amex department that I should contact? A legal department? Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

In post #47, Ritz posted a link to the Amex agreement. Have you read it to see if the info therein coincides with your phone conversation?

https://www152.americanexpress.com/E...ne t&origin=6

(You might check for a date on the document to ensure the info is still current).

Also, there is the ever popular FT 'trick' of calling back and speaking with someone else to see if the info is consistent.

I will also be buying a car soon and have found this thread to be quite enlightening. I like the idea of arriving at the dealership armed with a letter from Visa (the best defense is a good offense!)

Does anyone have an opinion (oh, right, this is FT :D) on what is an appropriate mark-up on a car... 'X' over invoice...

DD

In addition to putting part or whole on your cc there is Dealermiles (dealermiles.com) If the dealer is a member of the network then you can earn miles on sales, service, etc-but it varies from dealer to dealer. The dealer gives you codes that you enter online through the dealermiles website and they post to your FF account.

I like the letter from Visa too. Now how does one go about getting it? Do you have any idea?

The Amex link is to a form to complete reporting violations but not ot the actual rules and regulations themselves.

I Googled 'Merchant Agreement pdf' here is the link that came up:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan..._merchants.pdf

You might be able to find the necessary information there. Copy the pertinent passages and take them with you or call Visa CS and tell them what you're looking for. If CS can't help, ask for their Legal department.

DD

Thank you. I printed the applicable pages from the Visa pdf. I also googled Mastercard merchant agreement pdf and got the applicable pages. However it does not appear that Amex has these rules. I can't find them anywhere when I googled. So I guess I will have to use my Visa and/or MasterCard credit cards for the purchase although I really would prefer to use my Starwood Amex. If anyone comes up with a website that would help, please post it. Thanks.

I'm just back from test driving a Toyota Camry. This dealership - SF Bay Area - is offering 'below Invoice' pricing (from approx. msrp $21,000 down to about $19,000 for the CE model). If they are doing it here, I see little reason why you all can't shoot for similar negotiated pricing if looking for a Camry. Apparently, this deal will be in effect until Christmastime. Form of payment was not discussed.

Good luck!

DD

Wirelessly posted (LGE-VX8550/1.0 UP.Browser/6.2.3.2 (GUI) MMP/2.0)

Amex doesn't have the same rules per se, but does have a non-discrimination rule. The merchant can't set limits for Amex that don't apply to Visa/MC. So effectively the same rules apply if they take Visa/MC.

Apologies for going a tad off topic. In addition to setting a minimum and/or maximum amount for credit card transactions being a violation, it is also a violation to require an additional fee for credit card transactions, right? At least it would seem so based on the contact complaint forms which have that as a checkbox option.

I realize agreements can vary from country to country as laws differ, but would this not apply to low cost airlines such as RyanAir, EasyJet, and others which charge a fee for credit card use?

Ford...never again?> dont you know that Ford=Fix Or Repair Daily? ;)

AMEX' lays it out in their Operating Procedures for U.S. Merchants under Section 8, Special Industry-Specific Procedures:

8.4 Motor Vehicle Sales

"We will accept Charges for the down payment or the entire purchase price of new and used motor vehicles only if:

• [*]
• [*]

If the Cardmember denies making or authorizing the Charge and you have not transferred title or physical possession of the motor vehicle to the Cardmember, we will have Chargeback rights for such Charge."

Oh, and for the sake of staying on topic, last February I bought a Chrysler 300C (with Hemi!) and put $5K down on my Visa. Got 10K miles, plus a 10K miles bonus, plus 2.5K "Citi Dollars" (Not sure if $5K was a charge limit or not... that's all I was going to charge anyway).

It would, but as you said, local laws differ. The UK prohibits such restrictions, so merchants can impose them if they want there.

Just bought a 2008 Honda Pilot for 30+. I did a lot of shopping both online and at stores, so I thought the price was reasonable.

Dealer took my trade and we put 28K on 2 cards.

The guy didn't balk at all.^

Bought an infinity recently and the dealer limited me to $5,000 on my CC. Almost walked on the deal to see if they would budge but they did not.

Did you threaten to report them to the CC issuer or have a copy of the MA which essentially requires them to accept the card? If you had a backup deal elsewhere, it might have been worthwhile to try that approach to see if they would fold their hand.

Once you come to an agreement on price, can they then refuse to sell you the car after you insist on using a credit card to pay? It seems to me that this would circumventing the spirit of the Merchant Agreement.

Should we just pick up and move on to another dealership and hope they won't do the same thing?

Does anyone have any experience with this?

DD

I have absolutely no patience with car dealerships and their tactics, few relatively recent experiences below:

Went to Toyota dealership wanting to test drive Camry -- the sales person wants to go through his BS worksheet trying to match my needs to the appropriate car. My answer to "Why I am interested in Toyota?" question was: "Whenever I buy a new car my wife always takes it and I don't get to drive it. She will absolutely not drive or be seen in Toyota, so it would work for me." Refuse to answer any questions about whether looking to finance/ lease/ pay cash etc. Finally have test drive -- car was fine enough and I tell the sales I guy it's ok enough and I would be willing to buy it at the advertised special price (have the ad with me). He said there's no way to get it at that price, I say there's no reason to talk about anything else then and raise the speed up to 80 MPH on highway on my way back to the dealership. Guy tries to talk other good deals, I remain quiet and just leave with my friend once at the dealership with promise to contact State AG's office for false advertising (not that I actually bothered).

Local VW dealership advertises special price on Passat - the price is close to $5000 less than anyone else can do. We meet all the criteria (loyalty, grad, etc. discounts) and call ahead to verify that the ad car(s) is/ are on the parking lot. My wife and I get to the dealership and they tell that the ad car is still in the shipyard, but we could test drive one almost like it. We refuse and walk out, manager runs after us and magically announces that someone just brought the car to the dealership. We do test drive, my wife likes the car... I tell the sales people that we will pay the ad price, not penny more. They start doing the paperwork and about 10 different time I catch them cheating/ changing the numbers. Final straw was some BS $300 fee they came-up at the last step -- I took and ripped all the completed paperwork into thousand pieces and then threw it towards the waste basket.

Dealership called my wife back the following day and asked whether we wanted to make the deal. I told that if they changed a penny we'd walk again -- that evening we got out car in about 30 minutes after arriving.

**Sorry for OT posting as credit cards really weren't an issue here**

The last time I checked, our economy was capitalist rather than socialist. A "businessman" who is struggling is probably in the wrong business.


OK, back to topic...

It sounds like those who are purchasing cars with a lot of haggle room need to weigh the benefits of the CC points vs. the car's extra options or bottom-line price. If, however, you are buying a car that rarely dips below MSRP (e.g., a MINI or a Lotus), or a special-order car, then the dealer is basically forced to decide between a sale or no sale. I think they will always take a sale.

I have a suggestion: Since AMEX is known for charging higher merchant fees, why not come armed with an AMEX and a MC/Visa? Offer to charge on the AMEX first, and if the dealer is really staunch about not accepting it, then pull out the Visa and offer to "save" him a few bucks on merchant fees. If he still holds out, walk away or report him for a violation of merchant agreement.

deleted

Sounds like a win-win; or, in the game of Bridge, a good Finesse!

DD

For what it's worth....
I recently bought a KIA and wanted to put it on credit card (that's all I had with me at time of purchase - no checks! ;) They wanted to only take $3000 and said I could get a cash advance for the balance. After some discussion the finance manager indicated they might be able to take $3000 on several credit cards but wanted to check with the owner. I gave them 4 credit cards and authorization for charges up to $3000 on each. I left with the car. Called in the next few days and said cash advance would cost me too much - want to pay with credit card. Anyway - they hemmed and hawed and I had to keep calling but they eventually put it all on the various credit cards we had given them. Unfortunately - not all were mileage cards. But, to the good - $6848 got charged to a Citi cash returns card which was under the 5% back promo period :), 3000 to AmEx, 3000 to AA miles, and, this one made my husband happy - 3000 to Harley Davidson Visa. I kick myself that I didn't put all my Citibank AAdvantage cards in my wallet that day but....something is better than nothing!

I thought it was Found On Road Dead

:)

I was able to put $11,500 on my credit card to purchase a Honda Accord this weekend. When the salesman said he didn't think they could accept that much, I tried to hand him back the keys. After further checking, he said they would do it just this one time. Yeah, right.

I was looking at this one:
https://www.citicards.com/cards/wv/c...?screenID=1381
Surely must be better than any mileage card?
What are your thoughts?
The ideal card would be a 5% cash back with 0% APR for 12 months or so. Only decent alternative is the SPG AMEX intro offer 15,000 bonus for first 15,000 spent. (I.e. 2 SPG points for the first 15,000)

There's a card which gives close to 5% not only for 12 months, but 24 months. That is the citi amex platinum card which gives 3 to 5 points per dollar. 1 point is close to 1.5 cents and given that, this card gives 4 to 5% easily.

Wow, I'm just amazed how they can get offer one incredible deal after another. The way things are, I get the CCs through my GF who is US citizen, and she exhausted Citi, so have to wait 60 days now.
So I guess that a $35,000 would be 105,000 TY points then. :eek:

My dealer's limit was $1k. I tried to pay for my $2k desposit with a CC at the closing, and the merchant balked ("do you have a checkbook, debit card, etc?"). My response was this limit wasn't on the front door, the salesman never mentioned this during 3 weeks of closing the deal, and I could just as easily walk away, as I hadn't signed anything. They had to go "visit the sales manager"... next office... and he approved it. I figured the $60 in merchant fess was worth it to them, to close. Also, I was leasing a unique vehicle combo, the next choice was over 400 miles away ("take this one, or enjoy the flight"), so I figure I didn't strike the absolute best deal, so they had the room.

Steve B.

In response to the question about price to pay over invoice:

Go to edmunds.com and read about incentives etc that lower the vehicles actual cost to the dealer below invoice.

To all the posts on this thread of I payed $2000 etc:
After reading this post why do you continue to bow to demands that the merchant is not authorized to make, and then humiliate yourselves by showing you were outwitted here? A few people have commented that they did as good as they could (no viable alternatives so walking away wasn't an option) but many of you have given no indication. Why aren't you just walking away?

I am wondering about this myself.
I'd like some advice, how do I contact AMEX or MC/Visa to talk sense into them?
I tried telling the salesman that his "policy" is a breach of contract, but he just kept evading it.
I have cut communication with this dealership.

For me, I only planned on paying the deposit with the CC, and using lease payments. If I had wanted to buy the car with a CC, it would have been different, I would have gotten what I wanted. And I also was leasing a unique combination... I was told "if you would go with this combo, we have 4 of the 6 colors on the lot, and can get the other 2 colors by the afternoon".

When purchasing something unique, the seller has the advantage. When purchasing a "commodity", the buyer has the advantage. This advantage would include the option of the use of CCs.

Steve B.

So maybe we need a thread: Which car dealers will accept CC payment when buying a car? ;)

For the record: Global Motorsports in Nashville, TN, won't accept CC because of the 30-day return policy imposed by many CC companies...neither will Crown Ford, also in Nashville (bought my Hybrid Escape there, love the car, but they simply said NO, end of discussion)...

Also looking for a 2008 Hybrid Escape.
They are $7000 less in USA than Canada, and that's MSRP.
divemistress did you pay MSRP?
I am looking for a Ford dealer in WA or OR that would let me pay with CC, PM me if you have this information.
Will use gf's Citi Platinum Amex, I think.