Changes in the programs, changes in airline level of service, and changes in airline financial conditions have all contributed to me dramatically changing my outlook on loyalty programs. Since much of my travel is personal, I decided shortly after 9/11 that I was better off travelling less frequently and trying to get more from each trip. At that time is was mostly because of concern about that hassle factor at the airport. I think that has mostly been resolved but I am still taking the same approach because the cutbacks in service have made getting somewhere far less enjoyable. When I did the math for my situation I decided that I was better off buying fewer tickets, sometimes discounted business class, flying where I want, when I want and ignoring the loyalty programs to some extent. The programs are still a factor but I am not trying to get status, they are more of a tiebreaker in my decision. I get most of the benefits of status by buying business class anyway. The airlines may look at this and say that I am sometimes paying more for each ticket which is clearly want they want people to do but I am also buying fewer tickets and spreading the purchases over many more airlines. I don't know whether this is good for them or not and I really don't care. The bottom line for me seems to be that the erosion of benefits and just am importantly the erosion of services on airlines has made me unwilling to tie my future travel plans to any airline, I want those choices to remain in my hands as long as possible because there is simply no way to know what the airline will be offering as a travel experience and at what price 6 months from now.

Northwest has much going for it in their marketing relationships.
Also great promotions that American And United used to be more active in.
More important they appear to be less targeted and more for all to participate in.
My only concern with the program is complaints I have heard with regard to reward availability
Something that surely helped cook Continentals goose at last years Freddies.
Besides the much disliked changes to the program.
According to their big chief
That wasn't going to change http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
It took many years for a lot of Continentals customers to catch on because they were banking large amounts of miles in a program they couldn't redeem on or really hadn't tried to in some cases.
Southwest seems to be a big favorite out there.
Thanx!


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AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Swissotel Club Gold
U/A 1k

[This message has been edited by 777 global mile hound (edited 01-11-2003).]

The only disadvantage is pricing, not operations. FF programs reduce competition on price and scheduling.

It does not require far more fuel to fly you BOS-ORD-SLC than BOS-SLC. I don't have exact numbers in front of me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually less fuel. The reason is that the longer the flight, the higher the average load of fuel on that flight. Carrying around more fuel increases weight and thus fuel burn. In other words, after a certain point, flying longer burns more fuel, not less.

Also, for an airline that is not very small, hub-and-spoke is a much more efficient system than all non-stops. Southwest's route system is efficient for operations, but it usually requires a stop if you're not going a long distance.

For the big airlines, the choice is whether to have a few large hubs (UA ORD and DEN) or many small hubs (WN HOU, PHX, LAS, MDW, MCI, ...)


Besides, Delta doesn't fly BOS to SLC just to fly you to visit Salt Lake City. SLC is a Delta hub, meaning other people are changing planes while you leave the airport.

Other than it effect on price competition, I don't think FF programs inject inefficiency. After all, most people (sane people, that is) will choose an airline that is not their preferred carrier when the price is right.

.
Loyalty is out the door for me. My loyalty has been rewarded with the prospect of more trips in the back of the bus and a derelict SkyMiles program.

I have been flying Delta for over 20 years but it did not take me long to book my first flight on United for my first trip in '03. United seems happy to have me and Delta does not care.
.

The only way for all of the airlines to do away with their programs would be through illegal collusion.

There would just be too much incentive--either from the perspective of "soft" business calculations or more quantitative economic game theory considerations--for an airline to be the only one with a program.

That being said, I do believe that there is a real danger of the various programs beginning to administer spiraling rounds of benefit dilutions to see how much they can get away with--up to the point where their customers make it very clear to them that these actions have become counterproductive. This is why Delta elites must make clear to Delta management the negative consequences to them of the recent changes in your program--and nip this nonsense in the bud!

Watchful, I was thinking the same thing; I think I will give NW my best ratings in the Freddies for airline programs.

Hotels; I'm still deciding; Right now Marriott but its not written in stone yet.

Trojanhorse
A little off my original topic
Have many friends that stay Marriott and I do too.
Compared to the other programs I participate in I would say its my least favorite program.
And not all that rewarding.
Would be interested in hearing why you might consider voting for it as a contender for this years Freddies
I do Like the fact that they have added the welcome ammenity for Platinums to include 500 points or other choices.Long Overdue....

Clearly prefer Hyatt, Hilton and Starwood at the top levels over Marriott.
Hyatt for its free nights with the number 1 promotion of the year(and no category restriction on level of property) and free breakfast
Hilton because of Diamond award availability with no additional ovr charge on points, breakfast, superior pricing over Marriott and Starwood
Also the Hilton Garden Inns that I prefer to Courtyards when I stay on a budget.

Marriott has also insisted on paper certifactes to redeem making it difficult ,complicated and a waste of their companies money and our time and patience.
Their 2 free nights promo had a worse time window to earn and a low restricted hotel category redemption as well.
What value to you put on their program and benefits.
It would be very helpful to me to see the
positive aspects of this program that I might be missing that others seem to value more then I do.Thanks for your thoughts posted or by email

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AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Swissotel Club Gold
U/A 1k

Keep in mind that Southwest is a very different beast from any other major FF program. Much better in many ways, but impossible to compare to AAdvantage or Mileage Plus.

Southwest's program is based on free tickets between two cities served by Southwest (all in the continental United States) and nothing else. It does this award very well, giving it at reasonable cost with no lack-of-availability BS.

AAdvantage provides hundreds of categories of awards on many airlines worldwide. It doesn't do the domestic R/T ticket award nearly as good as Southwest (although it does serve many more cities), but some people accept that because they are after first-class seats to Australia, Europe, etc.

In a way, I almost think Southwest deserves a different category at the Freddies. Perhaps LUV, JBLU, and a couple of others belong in a "US domestic-only" service category. Not a knock on these airlines, just a recognition that they serve a totally different market than the global airlines.

I am one of those who have increasingly chosen the Priceline deals over the miles: I prefer the hard cash I save now over the miles. The changes being made to several loyalty programs only have reinforced this feeling.

Recent example: last week I booked a long weekend holiday on Priceline from Valentines day till Presidents day. Two economy tickets plus 3 nights in a category 4 2Tree hotel.
Total price (air for two + hotel) was less than what the hotel alone would have cost me if I had booked that through the Hilton website. Total savings at least 500USD: that's a no brainer to me, who cares about miles and points if you can save that kind of money.

Note: when bidding for vacations on Priceline you can actually choose the hotel you want to stay in. IMHO a major advantage over regular hotel bidding on PL.

I couldn't agree more with the theme of this thread.

Most of the bad taste expressed here is for changed award levels. I share that, but also I am upset about the unavailability of awards too.

Does anyone know of a website or publication that's providing info on award availability? It's tough to try to quantify but someone is going to do it.

Mountain Trader:

Some airlines websites (i.e Continental and American) tell you which routes are more likely to be able to upgrade in the upcoming month.

I agree with you, I stopped flying Continental from the UK to the US and Latin America last year, because of the difficulties I had trying to use my miles (over 100,000) for rewards. I have been Silver Elite 4 years in a row. Finally cashed them all in and gave my mother and cousin upgrades on a visit from Latin America to the UK, and said good ridance to Continental. I have switched to American Airlines.

My suggestion to anyone is to just keep one airline to accumulate miles. Keeping miles in more than one program today is not worth it. Find which are their partners and if you fly them bank the miles with your one airline of preference.

Mountain trader Thank you for your post
You brought up a great idea regarding current award availability information.Would be a great if there was one site that could be a source !!
Its a topic that should be discussed by the industry more.
However there may be a problem with sharing that information .
Some companies may have privacy issues releasing that info.
They may not want to let the public know the percentage of available inventory........
There should be a better way to communicate award availability to the member base.
Thanks for your post
You've given me some good input here
Your frustration is a place we have all been one time or another trying to redeem.


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AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Swissotel Club Gold
U/A 1k

[This message has been edited by 777 global mile hound (edited 01-13-2003).]

You've got to be kidding me. I haven't paid more than $65 a night with my own money in years by using Priceline. That includes Hyatts, Marriotts, Westins and Hiltons in downtown areas.

Who cares about hotel points when you are saving 70% off the price of the room?

No one has mentioned the huge benefit in the Southwest program that kicks in after earning/tranferring 100 flight credits: all of your awards are doubled in value with the Companion Pass.

That, along with the promo at Diners Club, would allow you to get a free, unrestricted round-trip ticket for every $6,000 you spend ($12,000 = 24,000 DC points = 1 RR ticket = 2 free tix with Comp Pass)

Some programs are getting better - you just have to know where to look.

$6000 for a ticket that would cost you no more than $600 on Southwest.

Of course, one needs to spend $120,000 for a First Class Saver ticket to Asia on UA (retail value, $12,000) so sauce for the goose and all that, I suppose.