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Originally Posted by rc408
(Post 8503510)
My understanding is that there is a tax on gains but not on actual income (I am no expert and am going on what I've heard others discuss). There is a debate that income is not a "gain" because I am trading my time and abilities for an equal amount of pay so no "gain" is received.
So, if I sell my own labor for $100, I must calculate the gain based on the difference between what I paid for my own labor (not what it is worth) and what I receive for it. Because I paid nothing for my own labor, everything I receive is income. Looking at it another way, if I start the week with no money, am paid $100 for my labor, and end the week with $100, I am $100 richer than I was at the beginning of the month. That $100 gain is an “undeniable accession to wealth” (in the words of the Supreme Court), and therefore income. Currently there is a couple who are protesting their court trial on this premise. They are holed up in their home surrounded by police, DHS, etc and have been for months now. You can search if you want to find it, I won't post any link. |
Originally Posted by rc408
(Post 8503510)
My understanding is that there is a tax on gains but not on actual income (I am no expert and am going on what I've heard others discuss). There is a debate that income is not a "gain" because I am trading my time and abilities for an equal amount of pay so no "gain" is received.
Currently there is a couple who are protesting their court trial on this premise. They are holed up in their home surrounded by police, DHS, etc and have been for months now. You can search if you want to find it, I won't post any link. That is correct, on both counts. Income tax never existed in the world until after WW2 interestingly enough started by the good ol' US of A and spread worldwide. Again, EVERY penny that you or I pay in income taxes goes to satisfy the interest covering the loans The Federal Resreve charges our government, right into the pockets of the owners of the Fed, EVERY PENNY and this is a FACT. The couple you are mentioning are the Browns up in New Hampshire and they are being persecuted in a fascist style which is unreal. Please note many cases came before courts in this country from citizens either being sued by the IRS or vice-versa. No court has ever decided in favor of the IRS when it come to an income tax, why? BECAUSE LEGISLATURE ON IT DOES NOT EXIST. |
Originally Posted by alanh
(Post 8503383)
Section 1 is the law that says the tax exists;
Lastly for all the nay sayers, watch this documentary with many interviews from former IRS head's : freedom to fascism, im sure you can find it on youtube or one of these engines. |
And the above illustrates why it's hard to debate this topic. I just cited the legislation, yet the response is that there is no legislation. Although I cited the acts currently in effect, there are Internal Revenue Acts going back to 1861.
The site I linked to gives citations of hundreds of cases where tax protesters have lost. Speaks nothing about mandatory Income Tax You are right that there's no tax on labor, but it doesn't mean what you want it to mean. I labored a full day for Habitat for Humanity, and didn't owe one cent of tax on that labor. The tax is on what you earn for the labor, not the labor itself. You can work all you want for free and not owe any taxes. I am familiar with the documentary you mention. They make the same arguments contrary to the Constitution, the laws passed by Congress, and the cases decided by the judiciary. Even I accepted that income taxes were a bad thing, they'd still be legal. |
Originally Posted by alanh
(Post 8503751)
And the above illustrates why it's hard to debate this topic. I just cited the legislation, yet the response is that there is no legislation. Although I cited the acts currently in effect, there are Internal Revenue Acts going back to 1861.
The site I linked to gives citations of hundreds of cases where tax protesters have lost. Section 1 says "There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of..." and lists a bunch of categories then "a tax determined in accordance with the following table". Since these categories apply to all persons living in the US (even non-citizens), I have to call that a tax. You are right that there's no tax on labor, but it doesn't mean what you want it to mean. I labored a full day for Habitat for Humanity, and didn't owe one cent of tax on that labor. The tax is on what you earn for the labor, not the labor itself. You can work all you want for free and not owe any taxes. I am familiar with the documentary you mention. They make the same arguments contrary to the Constitution, the laws passed by Congress, and the cases decided by the judiciary. Even I accepted that income taxes were a bad thing, they'd still be legal. Agreed. That is where the issue lies. That said, I reccomend paying taxes to anyone as I would reccomend anyone to pay the Mafia should you be threatened by them! ETA: Alan appreciate your input BTW. |
When I'm referred to the section in the Constitution that allows the Mafia to lay and collect taxes, I'll consider it.
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Originally Posted by ejmelton
(Post 8481045)
The FDIC has several tools available to settle depositors accounts. One would be to simply write everyone a check. Another is to hold a very quiet auction and turn the accounts over to the the winning bidder. In this case it appears that ING bid $14 million for the deposits and related customer info. ING was willing to pay for deposits which are, as EchoVictor pointed out, liabilities in order to gain the customers. (At least as many as will stay around.)
One of the advantages here is that the FDIC avoids most of the administrative hassles of paying out the accounts, not to mention that it reduced its potential loss by $14 mil. Jeff |
Whoa.
Since I last dropped in, did somebody conflate FDIC and the Fed and then shoot this off into a debate about income tax, the IRS and fascism ...long about Post #36 or maybe as far back as #6? This was educational, but starts to sound like one of those comment threads after web news stories that always end up at fascism, pro or con. It just took longer. Mods, are you going to wait until the word "delusional" pops up? If so, everyone hold on for the ride. |
Free ticket to OMNI. First come first served.
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Originally Posted by alanh
(Post 8503684)
Nope.
Well, yeah, if you break the law and threaten to kill anyone that tries to arrest you, that's what will happen. A legal case on that basis doesn't have a prayer, there are court cases on that argument going back to 1913 and every one lost. I have to disagree on the view of my labor not being of any value unless I am paid for it (I understand that is the legal view so this is just an opinion). If I didn't trade my labor for the $ my employer pays me I could have used that labor for my own purposes like building a home, growing a garden to feed myself, or even just watching TV. In effect I am trading something that has value (my labor) for something that we all pretend has value (US currency). I know nothing will change (Death and taxes and all that) but I still feel this is no different than some mobsters collecting protection money from local businesses. "Give us part of your money us or else!" (OK, I did write this before a lot of the other comments which are similar ie:mob, etc so I was really thinking hard on my own:D) |
Originally Posted by Firewind
(Post 8503929)
Whoa.
Since I last dropped in, did somebody conflate FDIC and the Fed and then shoot this off into a debate about income tax, the IRS and fascism ...long about Post #36 or maybe as far back as #6? This was educational, but starts to sound like one of those comment threads after web news stories that always end up at fascism, pro or con. It just took longer. Mods, are you going to wait until the word "delusional" pops up? If so, everyone hold on for the ride.
Originally Posted by rc408
(Post 8504070)
Not the best way to go about it I agree.
I have to disagree on the view of my labor not being of any value unless I am paid for it (I understand that is the legal view so this is just an opinion). If I didn't trade my labor for the $ my employer pays me I could have used that labor for my own purposes like building a home, growing a garden to feed myself, or even just watching TV. In effect I am trading something that has value (my labor) for something that we all pretend has value (US currency). I know nothing will change (Death and taxes and all that) but I still feel this is no different than some mobsters collecting protection money from local businesses. "Give us part of your money us or else!" (OK, I did write this before a lot of the other comments which are similar ie:mob, etc so I was really thinking hard on my own:D) |
Originally Posted by alanh
(Post 8503848)
When I'm referred to the section in the Constitution that allows the Mafia to lay and collect taxes, I'll consider it.
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Looks like this thread has run its course..
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