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Airline Comparison
Sorry it has been a while since I have been around. Been a tad busy.
Not sure where to put this. Hopefully this is the correct place. If not, I am sure it will be moved to the correct place. TIA to the Moderators. This year was a huge travel year for me. I moved from Jackson, Mississippi, to St. Louis, Missouri, and changed jobs. My water polo administrative responsibilities went up dramatically this year as well. Last year, I got to Million-Miler/Platinum on Delta, but did not fly more than a few segments on other airlines. This year was different. Delta Airlines: 2002 Status: Platinum, million miler 2003 Status: 95+ segments, over 100,000 base miles - Platinum American Airlines: 2002 Status: Platinum from Platinum challenge 2003 Status: 39 as of today, another 15 booked already before end of December; will go for Platinum status United Airlines: 2002 Status: Comp'd to Premier Executive 2003 Status: 10 segments Southwest Airlines: 10 segments As part of my Delta Airlines travel, I went on paid tickets to Moscow, Russia, on Delta, and Hong Kong and Pusan, Korea, on Korean Airlines. I also went to Bologna, Italy, on a business class award ticket on Air France (Delta miles). I did not fly international on any other carrier. Researvations Delta The Delta web site is easy to use for making reservations. It is able to consistently give me the best fares available on Delta domestic flights. I especially like the "new" way the system allows for "login" and the 800-mile upgrade option showing up as a checkbox. The problem, of course, is for international travel, it doesn't show lowest upgradeable fare available ... at least I am not able to get it to do so. One frequent disappointment about the Delta site is that it only gives me itineraries within a small time window based on the departure time I selected. Sometimes when I have time (which I often don't have) and play with the system, I have found flights $200 or more cheaper (on a $300-400 ticket) simply by moving the departure time by a couple hours one way or another. There should be some way to allow passengers who have some flexibility to locate cheaper flights easily. At the same time, Delta's tickets are consistently more expensive than comparable trips on American or United, even in L class. The U class tickets (if available) are the cheapest available on practically any airline on a given route, but L is rarely cheapest, and K is always higher. Thus, it is more expensive to maintain my Platinum status on Delta than maintaining status on another airline. The one thing I dislike most about the Delta web site is that printing from it is a pain. It is easy to program a button that will pull up an extra window for printing purposes. This is done on other airlines and other sites, I don't understand why Delta has not yet done this. I really like the rapidity by which my flight segments are updated. If I log in between segments on a trip, the segments I just flew are already logged. Surprisingly (to me), flights on Korean are logged into the system within 2-3 days of the flight! The SMS Platinum line agents are always fantastic. In October, I ended up going to Busan for 5 days, back to St. Louis for 1 day, and then off to Bologna for 4 days. Due to the fact that the people at the Asian Games (Busan) kept changing the schedule of the events I had to be at, and due to the fact that I was combining the trip on a paid ticket (Busan) with a Korean upgrade (an old one I had from a few months prior to their stopping those upgrades) and on a freebie (Bologna), and due to the fact that it was being handled by Delta for their two partner airlines (Korean and Air France), it was quite a mess. I must have spent over 40 hours (over a period of two months) working on this combination of trips with SMS, International partner travel desk, the round-the-world desk and at the DFW ticket counter. Every agent was cooperative and tried their best. The two agents who did the best job in taking care of issues were from the round-the-world desk - they were unbelievable. Unfortunately, the complexity of the combination of trips overwhelmed a number of agents even at SMS who were arranging the domestic portions of my trip! One poor young lady (who was clearly over her head) told me that it was not possible to fly back from Korea and then to Europe within the 2 calendar days on my itinerary -- even if my itinerary said that I could. One side note, the end result combination that I had for that combination of trips were not available when I tried to look it up using the web site. American The American Airlines web site is extremely useful and has many elements that I like. In particular, I really like the way it summarizes my most current frequent flyer status. I also really like being able to select several pairs of cities as identified city pairs for which I want to be on the lookout for specials. What is even more remarkable is that the feature works really well. It is strange to me that I am sometimes able to find cheaper itineraries on Expedia, Travelocity, and/or Orbitz on American Airlines than the same itineraries on the American Airlines web site. Thus, when I look for fares on the American web site, I always check the other sites. Typically, Travelocity and Orbitz has similar fares (and rarely lower than American), but Expedia has lower fares about 1 out of every 10 trips. One feature of the web site I like is the ability to ask the site to produce itineraries based on "fare." Thus, when I have some flexibility, I can get the best airfare for the trip. The other thing that is really nice is that it starts doing multiple segment trips using this feature that I can't find anywhere else. That is useful when I am trying to get enough segments to qualify for status. While this feature is really nice, it is disappointing that it will only provide a small number of options (I don't ever remembering having more than 4 or 5 options). Sometimes, that just isn't enough based on the times outbound and inbound. (I want to eat my cake, with icing, and fresh too!) I like the schedule option when I need to fly at specific times. The only problem I have with the schedule option is that I am unable to select American only flights. For example, it will start giving me 2-segment options using American and US Airways, for example, before it gives me 3-segment options. What I sometimes try to do is combine outbound/return 3-segment options I find in the "Fares" section (but are not shown in that option) to see if I can get a good fare, but I never quite get to do that. Thus, I would like ability to limit my search to American Airlines only, but I can't do that. I am surprised that it typically takes 3-4 days before flight segments are logged to my account. I wonder why it takes so long. One trip, I didn't see the segment logged after 2 weeks, so I called the Platinum line. I was told, ever so politely, that it was impossible that I took the flight (even if I had the boarding pass) because I was not on the passenger manifest. I was told that I must have taken an earlier flight or a later flight and was simply confused. I sent the boarding pass (by FAX) to the Flight Credit line and it showed up in my account within 2 days. Generally speaking, the counter personnel are excellent and the service center agents are terrific, especially once they know that I am an elite member (middle tier - Platinum). However, more frequently than on Delta, the gate agent is harried, impolite, and sometimes downright rude. United The major downfall of the United Airlines web site is that the site forgets easily whether or not I have signed in. Moreover, I found it difficult to use for selecting specific flights at specific times with multiple segment options. The thing I like best about the United site is its offerings of less expensive options. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way of limiting it to just United flights. Since I will no longer fly United, unless I have no other choice, and since I don't like their web site, I don't use it. Southwest The Southwest web site is incredibly easy to use for selecting travel and fare options. Not much more can be said about it. The reasons I don't fly Southwest more has to do with their business model, and nothing to do with their personnel or other amenity (like web site). Korean The Korean web site is much improved over what it was, particular when purchasing tickets. The only issue I have with it is that it is simply impossible to select combinations that are more "difficult," for example, trips from the US to Australia. None of the domestic (Korean) schedule is accessible through the web site. This was a real pain when trying to get my ticket for Busan. With limited information, it was very difficult to plan my trip. It was not possible to get my Delta SkyMiles number entered when I bought my ticket. Oh well. I bought an "electronic" ticket on the Korean web site. I called the airline and reserved seats and put my Delta number into the system. When I got to JFK, I was told that Korean does not honor electronic tickets and that I needed to have my reservation re-issued as a paper ticket. In the process of doing so, they lost all my seats (but kept my Delta number). I did get other seats (some of which were more "choice" than the ones I had booked. Summary All the web sites have their strengths and weaknesses. The two I use the most, Delta and American, are both very good and useful. However, both have significant weaknesses that need to be addressed. Fares, Upgrades, Seats, and Flights Delta I flew Delta Airlines a lot out of Jackson, Mississippi, early in the year. The problem with Delta and Jackson is that every flight is usually full. Fortunately, as a long-standing Platinum medallion flyer, I was regularly able to upgrade to First Class. I think I was not upgrade on only three flights this year. All those were due to last minute changes in my itinerary (stand-by flights). The domestic FC product on Delta is decent. The seats are somewhat comfortable, though on some flights pitch is amazingly slight. The food is consistently okay (not good, not bad, just okay). I don't believe it is my imagination, but the seats have different widths on the different aircraft. I really like the large plastic cups before flights (and used during the flight in coach). With the 9/11 cutbacks, the product has not suffered as much as I would have expected. FC is almost always full on the flights I take. The 800-mile segment upgrade is excellent (300 miles more per certificate than any other airline), and as a Platinum, being able to get an unlimited number is really nice. The C(J) product (Business Elite) is very good. For comfort, it is better than the domestic business on American or United and far outstrip Korean or Air France (see below). I really like the legroom of the BE seats. The only problem is that the width of the seats vary with the aircraft. On the 767-300ER going to/from Moscow, it started getting a bit cramped width-wise. Ah, but the legroom was wonderful. The food on domestic BE flights is the same as domestic FC. The food on international BE flights is better and I would even give it a marginal "good." On long BE flights, I want the 2nd row middle (in 2-2-2 configuration), even though I prefer a window. This way, no one is climbing over me to get out and it is not the bulkhead. The amenity kits are very nice, but not fancy. I do not like flying the coach product. The seats are incredibly uncomfortable and the pitch has got to be the least in the business. On the flights I take, all seats are typically booked solid and thus uncomfortably crowded. If I have a choice, and I know that I have to sit coach, I would probably choose another airline. One thing I noticed is that Delta does not have a policy regarding seating of elite members, whereas this is a clearly stated policy on United, and something that I have received on American. The Regional Jets that Delta flies are the Canadian Regional Jets. They can be okay for short flights, but I do find them cramped and uncomfortable. The exit rows don't seem to mean that there is any additional legroom. So, if possible, I also avoid these aircraft. American For some reason, of the 28 or so flights on main-line American flights I have taken this year, all but one are on MD-80s, the exception being a 757. I have tried to upgrade on only 3 flights to date, and succeeded on 2 (to/from Ft. Lauderdale). The FC product seemed comfortable and the food was okay. But, I haven't flown enough to know for sure. The coach product is excellent. The seats are the most soft and comfortable of any airline I flew this year. Softness of the seat was comparable to Korean business class and far superior to Air France business class. The pitch is terrific (for coach) and having that extra legroom is really nice. So far, I haven't minded sitting in coach even for long domestic flights! Food service in coach is perhaps even less than what I found on other airlines. There just didn't seem to be much of anything except a bag of pretzels and a small drink. Have not had any food on a Y flight yet (even though I have been on ones as long as 3.5 hours). On several of my flights, I noticed that I was one of two or three people who did not have anyone sitting next to me. Apparently there is a policy that Platinum members (don't know if this is extended to Gold, but assume it is extended to Executive Platinum) are the last to have someone put into the seat next to them. This is nice. However, due to the demand for exit row seats, I have found that the exit row is always full. Thus, I prefer a "front" row with an empty seat next to me (on the 3-pax side of the plane). Most American regional jets seem to be the Embraer Regional Jet. I like them. The seating on the single seat side (A) is quite nice. The legroom in the exit row is excellent. United I flew FC on almost all the United segments. They have the most comfortable FC seats when compared to Delta and American. I flew on a bunch of different aircraft and every FC seat seemed the same. I particularly like the movable headrest. They also have the rudest and most nasty FAs on the flights. Perhaps unusual, but on every flight that I flew in FC on United, I had a nasty and rude FA. On the second to last flight I took on United this year (I had planned to focus on United going for top tier after I had reached Platinum on Delta), a FA told me that I had to take my new, expensive laptop (which weighed less than 3.5 lbs) and put it on the floor in front of me and would not be allowed to put it in the seat pocket. She did not provide an explanation. She told me I was not allowed to hold it in the seat (slid next to me) - and actually came back to check on me. When I explained that it was a new, expensive, light laptop and I was afraid that it would slide around on landing, she told me that I simply had to step on it and hold it in place. I asked if I could get up and put it in my briefcase (we were over 20 minutes out), she refused. I didn't want to give her the opportunity to declare "interference with a flight attendent," so I complied fuming. In Chicago, after I landed, I spoke with a customer service agent who told me that there was no reason why, to the best of his knowledge, I had to put the computer on the floor and not into the seat pocket. He took my business card and promised to call me within a week. I told him I would not fly another United flight until he called. That was in early July; I have not flown United since. The coach section of United is decent, The regular "E" seats are reasonable, not too tight with regard to pitch, and not unreasonably uncomfortable. The E+ seats are a lot nicer and similar in many ways to the standard American Airlines coach seat. I also like the headrests on these seats the most. The policy that they will place elite pax in E+ seats whenever available and not place other pax into the middle seat next to Premier Executive seats is really nice. Southwest It is not always true that Southwest is the cheapest airline. I have found fares (including upgradeable fares on Delta and American) to be competitive with Southwest into most markets. When I go to Chicago from St. Louis at the last minute (ticket bought the day before or on the same day), I find that my options are typically Southwest Airlines into Chicago-Midway at $198.50 or American Airlines into Chicago-O'Hare at $200.00. Considering the fact that I may sometimes need to be near O'Hare and sometimes near Midway, the $1.50 difference does not come into consideration. The seats on Southwest are okay, and don't seem to be much different from United's regular coach section, but if I can upgrade, I would much rather upgrade with a small difference in price (say under 10%) as I am often able to get on Delta or American. Korean I flew Korean Airlines to Hong Kong and to Korea. Their fares are incredible compared to anyone else. For example, when I went to Hong Kong, I bought a restricted business class airfare from New York-JFK to Seoul to Hong Kong round trip for US$3,100 from the Korean web site. This gave me all the business class bonuses in miles, etc. The next closest competitor was Northwest Airlines at about $4,500. Everyone else I checked (Singapore, United, Cathay Pacific, JAL, China Airlines) was about the same and over $6,000. I also was not able to find consolidator seats at any price. One interesting point was that the web site showed tickets available in business class for $3,500 for that trip about one week out from the trip. The coach class tickets at that point were $3,900 on the web site. Why would anyone buy that coach ticket at that point? Though Korean upgrade certificates are no longer available, I used one for my trip to Pusan, Korea. For a coach ticket at US$1340, I flew in business class to Pusan and back. That's quite a deal, price-wise. I was also supposed to go to the Phillipines in early November (cancelled in October). I looked at airfare and it was less expensive to go to the Phillipines via Seoul (on Korean) than to fly non-stop from the west coast on Phillipine Airlines. This was true for coach (difference of around US$500) and for business (difference of around US$2000). The only difference is that the flight schedule on Korean is severely limited. The closest competitor (which actually had some business class fares lower than Korean when going to the Phillipines only) was Northwest. As another side note, I looked into airfares going around the world for my Pusan/Bologna trip. I found that if I could fly Korean all the way, it would have been cheaper than to fly on another airline. What was amazing was that flying Seoul-Paris on Korean in business class (Korean metal; Korean ticket) was about US$500 cheaper than on a Korean code share business class seat on Air France (Air France metal; Korean ticket). Buying an Air France ticket for the same flight in business class (Air France metal; Air France ticket) was about $1500 more than the Korean/Korean combination. Similarly, flying the same flights in the same class of service using a Korean ticket was typically 30-40% cheaper than using a Delta ticket (using the Korean metal on a code share), for example, DL from ATL-PUS-ATL versus KE from ATL-PUS-ATL on the same aircraft. The business class seats on Korean are okay. The foot rest does not go up high enough. On the 747-400, my favorite seat is upstairs exit row window on the "A" seat side. There is wonderful legroom and seems to be the most comfortable seat. If I can't get that, I ask for front of the upper deck aisle. I have found that if I put my roll-on-board on the floor in front of me, I get decent elevation for my legs for sleeping. (The FAs are always puzzled when I tell them I want access to my roll-on-board during the flight.) It is unfortunate that there is no amenity kit distributed even on the long flights. On the 777, the worst rows are the first row (bulkhead) and the last row (where I don't think the seats go back all the way). So, I simply ask for an inside aisle (2-3-2 seating). There is no exit row in C/J on a Korean 777. The 14.5 hours from Atlanta to Seoul in a 777 seemed hours longer than the 14.5 hours from JFK to Seoul on a 747-400 in exit row window. The food on Korean is plentiful and plain. They always have a Korean dish - and it is consistently the best tasting selection. The Western dishes are simply plain awful. The First Class lounge in ICN is the very best airline lounge that I have been in, but I haven't been in that many international lounges. Air France Simply the best food on board a plane in recent memory (the meal I had from Atlanta to Paris was as good as the regular meal in Singapore Airlines First Class last year from Hong Kong to San Francisco; but not as good as the Singapore Airlines lobster thermidore I had from San Francisco to Hong Kong). They also have the best wine selection that I have had on board in a long time. However, the C/J seats are the most uncomfortable that I have had the misfortune to sit in. There seems to be some sort of bar that crosses the seat and no amount of cushioning with the blankets or pillows was able to help. It was miserable enough (for me) that I stood up most of the flights from ATL-CDG and back. The amenity kits were very nice. Intra-Europe business class was fine. The Air France lounges in CDG are horrible, dirty, and crowded. I actually preferred to sit in the regular part of the terminal - even if the regular terminal was pretty awful as well. If I have a choice, Air France is the last airline I would choose from the Delta partnership that I have flown (Delta, Korean, CSA, Air France). Summary Overall, the best airline for long distance trans-oceanic business class is Delta (over Korean and Air France). The best for regular long distance in domestic FC/business is also Delta. The best coach is American. Airline/Airport Issues Delta If one flies Delta and mostly on the East Coast, then it is inevitable that one flies through Atlanta or Cincinnati. Both airports are pretty nice and transfers are reasonable. The Crown Rooms are generally nice, though the ones in ATL can get awfully crowded. One thing I really like about Delta is that when one arrives, one is able to look up at a board and find out what gate is next. If a display is not available (and usually even when it is), there is a gate agent who can help direct me to the next gate. This is not available on any other airline and is a significant issue. American I hate to say it, but St. Louis Lambert Field is terrible. The DFW airport is not bad, but difficult to get around in. Chicago is also not bad and probably (IMHO) the best of the lot. The worst part about American is its FF program (see below). United I am not sure I can find a single nice thing to say about United. Oh, I do like the layout of Denver Airport. The Seattle Red Carpet Club is also very nice. Southwest I really don't like the attitude of forcing me to arrive way early, random seating, and no opportunity to upgrade to a more comfortable seat for long flights. But that is the problem too, there are no long flights on Southwest and the multiple stops are no fun after a while. Frequent Flyer Programs Delta I have always complained about the Delta SkyMiles program. If one is not Platinum, the rewards don't seem to be good, especially with a high risk of sitting in the back. The overseas awards are miniscule and trivial. LUser fares are a travesty. That being said, Delta has a good upgrade program (800-miles are better than 500 any day) and excellent benefits for a Platinum member (unlimited upgrades at time of purchase of a qualified ticket, Crown Room membership, and limited international upgrade certificates). I have also found that they work hard in protecting me in case of delay and make extra efforts to ensure that my travel goes smoothly. If I weren't Platinum, I probably wouldn't travel much on Delta at all. United Better than American in terms of reaching highest tier status, but otherwise, not much different. Rewards are not as good as Delta, but the possibility of upgrading on any fare is really nice. American Worst frequent flyer program compared to Delta and United. When I told them I was a Platinum-Million Miler on Delta, they said that I was not eligible for a Platinum challenge. When I told them I had United Premier Executive, then I was eligible for a Platinum challenge (what gives??). During the year, due to delays and/or cancellations on the part of American, I was put on other airlines to reach my destination (I made sure it was Delta). AAdvantage policy is that I do not received AA credit for those flights since it was not flown on American or an American partner. To the best of my knowledge, American is the only airline with that type of policy when I am forced to fly an alternate airline due to the fault of the principle airline. In particular, I don't like the way one has to qualify for top tier, American does not allow for segments to get to top tier (Platinum Executive). One has to earn the privilege on points. The base 500 miles on every flight translates into 500 points. However, if one is flying on a discounted coach fare, one gets 0.5 points per mile after the first 500. One gets 1 point per mile in full fare coach and so on. Since I pay for most of my travel out of my pocket, I have no incentive to fly long flights on American. It would take me (on average) about 140,000 base miles (as calculated as 1 flown mile per base mile) to reach the 100,000 points I would need to get Premier Executive status. To get that, I would probably need to fly almost 150 segments (based on my typical flying pattern). And the benefits for Executive Platinum aren't all that much better than regular Platinum. Based on my flying pattern, I would rather get highest tier on another airline (for me, Delta) and low- (Gold; 30 segments) or mid-tier (Platinum; 60 segments) on American. Anything else would not make sense. Southwest The simplest program around. For me, the best thing is that I can fly frequently to Chicago and start to accumulate free tickets. Since a flight to Chicago is equivalent to the three legs it takes for me to get many other places (in terms of accumulating credit toward a free ticket), the Southwest frequent flyer program does not provide me with an incentive to fly on Southwest over a competitor (Delta, American) where I get credit for each segment and status towards upgrades, an international partnership, and similar fares. Summary I flew a lot this year, overall the best frequent flyer program for me is Delta, although United is not bad. American has, in my opinion, the worst program. However, American provides the most comfortable coach travel whereas Delta provides the best business and first class travel. (United would probably be the best if I actually would fly them, but I won't.) This is, of course, one man's opinion. But, I have sat in a large number of metal tubes this year and this is based on my experiences those many hours in metal tubes. [This message has been edited by Water Polo Ref (edited 11-29-2002).] |
One more side note:
This year, my international travels were to Moscow, Hong Kong, Busan (Korea), Bologna (Italy), and Phillipines (although that last trip was cancelled). After review of all the major airlines (airfare, frequency, etc.) the best options (surprisingly) were almost always with Delta and Delta partners as compared with American and United. Korean's pricing to Hong Kong was so fantastic that it outweighed the somewhat more frequent and shorter flights on the other airlines (why pay $6200+ on UA, SQ, or CX to HK when I could travel on KE for $3100??). With Moscow and Korea, Delta and Delta partners were by far the best on options and price. I really was surprised by this result. |
Interesting summary.. thanks for sharing.
You have to pay out of your pocket for a lot of travel that is work-related? That hurts. I only have one comment on the AA FF section... I'm surprised you did not get miles for your cancelled AA segment even though you were put on another airline. This has happened to me a couple of times.. I was put on United flights... and I received credit for my cancelled AA segments. |
Thank you so much for the post Water Polo Ref.
I was considering moving from Delta to either AA or UA, and your report just saved me a tremendous amount of time and money. It looks like I will be staying with Delta next year. |
Thanks for the comprehensive summary, Water Polo Ref.
Although I have been flying DL almost exclusively for the last 5 years, I am planning on flying a lot of AA in 2003, partly out of dissatisfaction with DL's upgrade restrictions as well as its exit from major Latin American markets. OTOH, I agree that no other airline comes close to matching DL's treatment of its top-tier flyers (at least those willing to pay the high upgradable fares). Unlimited domestic upgrades and confirmed upgrades at booking are significant and valuable benefits. Having said that, I believe (without the benefit of your first-hand experiences) that you are being unfair to AA's FF program. First, my understanding is that if you fly another airline due to AA delays or cancellations, you get full credit for the flights. Secondly, to make EXP, you need 100,000 miles OR 100,000 Q-Points. So you would NOT need to fly 140,000 miles to qualify. Lastly, I know it's a nuisance that AA will match UA but not DL status, but that's a marketing decision by AA and is easy enough to overcome with a little creativity and judiciously applied pressure. Anyway, your excellent summary will give us all much food for thought! ------------------ Vasant |
A couple of corrections for folks reading of your experiences.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">During the year, due to delays and/or cancellations on the part of American, I was put on other airlines to reach my destination (I made sure it was Delta). AAdvantage policy is that I do not received AA credit for those flights since it was not flown on American or an American partner. To the best of my knowledge, American is the only airline with that type of policy when I am forced to fly an alternate airline due to the fault of the principle (sic) airline. In particular, I don't like the way one has to qualify for top tier, American does not allow for segments to get to top tier (Platinum Executive). One has to earn the privilege on points. The base 500 miles on every flight translates into 500 points. However, if one is flying on a discounted coach fare, one gets 0.5 points per mile after the first 500. One gets 1 point per mile in full fare coach and so on. Since I pay for most of my travel out of my pocket, I have no incentive to fly long flights on American. It would take me (on average) about 140,000 base miles (as calculated as 1 flown mile per base mile) to reach the 100,000 points I would need to get Premier Executive status. To get that, I would probably need to fly almost 150 segments (based on my typical flying pattern). And the benefits for Executive Platinum aren't all that much better than regular Platinum. </font> Regarding having to fly 140,000 miles, that appears to specific to your case apparently relying mostly on shorthaul and low fares. As you probably know you can also earn Executive Platinum on AA through just flying 100K flight miles. |
After re-reading the qualification criteria for Executive Platinum, it looks like I was wrong and that I can fly 100,000 miles and qualify - and that is isn't exclusively due to q-points. Therefore, I retract my comments regarding AAdvantage in that regard.
However, as a primarily short-haul traveller, segments matter a lot. In all the years that I have been a PM on DL (every year since SkyMiles has been in existence), this is the first year I have qualified through miles and not segments - and that is because I flew to Moscow, Hong Kong, and Busan (104,493 miles in 93 segments). On AA, I cannot qualify to top tier with 100 segments as I can with DL and UA. Thus, while the ability to qualify for Executive Platinum with 100,000 miles is better than having to fly 140,000, I still would need close to 120 segments instead of 100 segments. As far as denial of credit is concerned, this is an interesting point. On July 12, 2002, I was booked on AA3099 from STL-DFW connecting to AA3605 from DFW-JAN. AA3099 was cancelled and I was re-booked by AA onto DL. On July 18, 2002, I was booked on AA2654 from STL-ORD, AA2245 from ORD-DFW, and AA3683 from DFW-JAN. AA2654 was delayed leaving STL. I missed AA2245. While AA could get me to DFW, they could not get me to JAN on July 18. Therefore, I was booked onto DL so I could get to JAN on July 18. I sent a letter on July 22 requesting credit for the change of flights with supporting documentation. A postcard denying credit was returned to me. I called subsequent to receiving the postcard and a person at American Airlines confirmed that I was to be denied credit. At the time, I looked it up and actually found a section in the documentation that stated that American will only credit mileage on AA and AA partner airlines. I must also admit that I cannot find it right now. This was a "big deal" at the time because the July 18 trip (if the q-points were awarded) would have enabled me to meet the Platinum challenge. I had purchased AA tickets for STL-JFK-STL and then Korean ticket for JFK-(ICN)-HKG-(ICN)-JFK, I had wanted to try and upgrade on the return (since I knew I would be tired and would want the extra width). I was not happy that my credit was denied. Anyhow, that's a long way to state that it may be true that AA will award credit, but they did not do so for me and it may have been because I was flying during a challenge. I should try and contact them again and find out, because if I can get credit for those flights, I am that much closer to re-qualifying as a PLT. [This message has been edited by Water Polo Ref (edited 11-30-2002).] |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AA-flyer-90: You have to pay out of your pocket for a lot of travel that is work-related? That hurts.</font> I am also a National-rated and Nationally ranked water polo referee. As such, for almost all events, I pay my own airfare. The event pays my housing, local transportation, and game fees. My game fees are supposed to be sufficient to make my airfare. This is true only for a small minority of events I attend. In my day job in St. Louis, my travel is fully paid for by my employer. I wrote the travel policy and it takes into account employees who may want to travel on specific airlines for status or point accumulation. The vast majority of my travel over the past 6 or 7 years has been for water polo. This year, I think I had something like 7 or 8 trips for my employer (3 of which were STL-Chicago). The rest were water polo. [This message has been edited by Water Polo Ref (edited 11-30-2002).] |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Water Polo Ref: In my day job in St. Louis, my travel is fully paid for by my employer. I wrote the travel policy and it takes into account employees who may want to travel on specific airlines for status or point accumulation.</font> It certainly sounds like you have an interesting life! I didn't know refereeing water polo events could get you so much mileage. Perhaps a change of career is in order ... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ------------------ Vasant |
Water Polo Ref: serious question-I hope it does not get moved: why is US water polo not doing better in international competition?
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Thanks for sharing your experiences in this very comprehensive & detailed report. True FT high class act!
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While I have never been short of criticism of the airline industry and UA, I do believe in fairness.
Regarding the UA issues, here are my experiences... I have not booked many tickets online, but the times I did, I did not experience any problem. I have, however, experienced problems accessing my account, specifically the number of e-upgrades I have/had (agents taking too many out has been a big problem this year). To check for other airlines, you just have to go to the 'more options' window. Laptop: It is my understanding the no laptop in the seat pocket is an FAA mandate. I don't think the putting the laptop on the floor with your feet around them is going to damage the laptop. Maybe wrapping it with a blanket could provide some peace of mind. Having said all that laptop talk, I'm a little spoiled, as my height gives me the ability to retrieve items from the overhead bin without unbuckling my seatbelt (I'm waiting for the announcements prohibiting that). Understand there ARE some good eggs, who are either CSRs or SWs. I think you'll find both types on any carrier. I do believe the UA employees have recevied the royal shaft when it comes to pay, no question. If I get poor service from a PERSON, I will let them, and UA, know. However, I do not unload on any CSR or FA if they're simply carrying out their orders from corporate. |
I've been at the top tiers of all most of them for many years and I rate Delta's Platinum the best of the bunch for one main reason: The best Customer Service.
The benefits depend on what kind of lying you do. I rarely am on ultra cheap fares so being up front automatically every domestic flight is the best Delta benefit. No upgrades to First internationally is the worst (took FC out) |
WaterPoloRef-
Any chance you might be at World Championships in Barcelona this coming July? I'll be there for the swimming side to support Natalie. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tom911: Any chance you might be at World Championships in Barcelona this coming July? I'll be there for the swimming side to support Natalie.</font> Quick answer to "best". Let us take the rest into email or at www.usawaterpolo.com . 1. The men's side has been consistently 5-8 in the world over the past 10 years. In the last 2 years, they are getting better. It is a very young team. We now have a full time coach (2nd year) who is demanding extreme dedication and concentration of the athletes. I think the team will do well in Athens and better in Beijing. The Junior men (20 and Under) did not fare well at the last Junior Worlds as they were missing players (due to injury). They did not play well in the Pan Ams and came away with silver. I think we have the ability to be one of the top 5 teams in Naples ... we shall see. 2. On the women's side, we are the team to beat (silver at the Olympics). We shall see just how well they do at the World Cup that starts on Dec 10 in Perth. The Junior women (20 and Under) are the reigning World Champions and the reigning Pan American Champions. (Thanks to the Moderators for their indulgence.) |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">2. On the women's side, we are the team to beat (silver at the Olympics).[/B]</font> |
WaterPoloRef - Thanks for taking the effort to make the airline comparisons and throwing in a bit of personal stuff as well. It was interesting that you put Delta up at the top of the pack in many categories. There are a lot of FlyerTalkers out there who hate Delta (mostly due to their upgrade policies). I have flown Delta, mostly in coach, for the past 20 years to visit my wife's family at TRI and to do business in ATL. What I like about Delta is:
1) Lots of wide body planes on domestic routes; 2) Their generous Delta AMEX bonuses; 3) An easy to use website; 4) Quick posting FF credits on their website; 5) Some good CSRs and FAs I have experienced; While there is a lot more that Delta could do better, it is good to see an underdog score favorably every once in a while. I agree that Lambert is not a great airport. While I try to avoid ATL when connecting, I still think it is one of the best designed major airports out there. [This message has been edited by Jeeves (edited 12-01-2002).] |
Water Polo Ref, out of curiosity, would you have the same feelings for DL if you were a GM and not a PM? As a GM we have been severely affected by the cutbacks in the Skymile program. The insULT fares are a joke. The replacing of the SWU's with NAMU's is meaningless as most GM's have an extremely high upgrade rate with segments, and I really miss those international upgrades that came with the SWU's.
Also SGB makes DL the most restrictive airline out there, when it comes to rule bending and accommodating passengers with common sense solutions. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rssrsvp: Water Polo Ref, out of curiosity, would you have the same feelings for DL if you were a GM and not a PM?</font> Based on my flying pattern and living in St. Louis, I think that I would choose one of the following: 1.) DL Platinum and AA Platinum 2.) AA Platinum and UA Premier Executive I don't think I would want to be mid-tier on DL and on some other airline. The seats and GM benefits such simply do not measure up. I mean, I am already lifetime Silver (due to being a 1MM flyer), so what more does GM do for me but give me a few more credits towards upgrades? The PM benefits are significantly better and that is why I will fly DL. Until recently, UA would not have been in the picture much simply because their coverage of the East Coast and Southeast is less than I would have liked. However, in combination with US Airways, they are a significantly more attractive option. Unfortunately (for them), I am being obstinate and perhaps child-like in saying I am not going to fly UA unless I have no other choice. |
Very interesting post, Water Polo Ref. I like the detail you provide because this gives people a pretty clear idea of a traveler's real experience with the airlines in one shot. Thank you.
I am curious if there are others willing to share the experiences in the same period to see if there is any consistency: In other words, do you think it is possible that the same kinds of things happened to 2 different similar travelers? This would be something worth knowing, I think. I tend to think that when you fly, no matter what elite or other level you may hold, it can be a shot in the dark when it comes to the service you get, etc. I have family and friends who are at various levels and we compare airline travel horrors often (with a laugh, of course). I liked this thread because if can give a clear picture as to what the customer went through and not what the airline says the customer would go through. Excellent. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif +++ Now, I have a few more slightly unrelated thoughts and I mean no disrespect to Water Polo Ref and others who have commented thus far in this thread: I have written some long ones in here but this was very long as well. In fact, it was the longest thing I ever saw in here. Though WPR's may have been written with better grammar, etc. I have a few questions to some who may be reading: Why is it that no one blasted the length of the post? Not that they should, but again, it was long. It was also interesting to see that since WPR is platinum, etc on several carriers... I am not. I am gold on AA and Prem. on UAL and Platinum in Starwood. That's it. In this case, WPR had to tell us these things (about status) to get this particular story out. But I often wondered if one should be posting in the FT if one is but a mere "economy" (gasp) traveler?...I am one of those and never minded the cheap seats. I think it's great that people attain the higher status and good on ya for acheiving this. I do not have it and have not really cared. I have wondered why so many in the FT feel they must promote their status constantly, however. Seems a bit odd to me. Again, in this particular story, WPR had to include this info so this is NOT about WPR's status! I am asking the general question. I have low levels of mileage on many carriers. In fact, they are all about 35k which is fine by me. Used to have more or less, but my goal is to be positioned for free travelings to Hawaii/Carib/etc. with my wife and then in about a year plus, we don't plan to do much traveling for a long, long time. My posts on ideas of how to earn a few points here and there have been aimed at people like myself. just a regular person looking to earn some miles in a current addiction with some creative ideas. Some are creative and some in depth. I share some ideas, pick up some tips and love to talk about the marketing schemes we all see growing in this field. I am in marketing myself. Water Polo Ref's post is therefore of particular interest to me. But I wonder: Is it due to the length of my posts, or possibly, due to the fact that I am NOT elite that I get blasted for posting something as long as this one was? I am looking for intellegent opinions. In comparing travel and airlines, I also wish to compare ways of presenting mile ideas or travel thoughts. This probably opens up a huge can of worms... Once aagin, Water Polo Ref, yours was a great post and it was interesting. Maybe mine are not (to some) but I am just asking. I had to ask in here because it is about length and so I ask this of others who may be reading here but not necessarily posting in this one-yet. ------------------ If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all! |
MM
I'll take your bait... While WPR's post was long, it flowed and did not dwell on details not central to his post. I've found that many of your posts ramble. My preference is for posts that get to the point quickly with a minimum of extra words. Something along the lines of my first lesson in public speaking: Be Standing Be Brief Be Seated You usually won't be criticized for writing too little, while the converse does happen (as you've experienced). ps I assumed your moniker was a hint at your posts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif |
Lightening Guy
Well said. In fact, yours was the meaning of the words "constructive criticism." I think anyone who posts something controversial (due to content or wording) would rather hear back in the way YOU'VE put things... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif You see, I tend to write like a person speaks not always checking back to see how it may be read by those who do not know me or how I think. Good points can be lost. Some get bugged by this (I always think this is not my prob) and some pick up on it just fine. It was just odd to me that in order to get something across, one had to be a certain "way" already...so it seemed. Obviously I too could be reading into things differently than they were told. However, I’d hoped that in a mere forum, less would have mattered in this area. I have always believed that there are so many factors to a situation or story that DO go off on tangents but they can all come back together in the end to make the whole. WPR’s post was 1,2,3, etc with an intro and a conclusion. Classic stuff indeed. I am merely prompting people to check out the not-so-classic in case this helps us all in some way. It often can. A higher up in our company said something yesterday in our annual staff meeting: “A leader does not ask permission, he/she asks forgiveness.” One should push one’s ideas and get them out there no matter what. If someone pushes back on you, then you can try to work out any problems you may have with them or they with you. But if one just sits back and takes the easy road, well...you know. Let us all think about that when we write, read, and conjure up the many ways to earn or discuss miles or free travel--which is all this is about anyway. Anyway, thank you for this and as I said, WPR's post was a great one, as long as it was. And yes, it 'leads' in a pretty decent way too. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ------------------ If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all! |
Water Polo Ref: You are terrific, your potings are serious and in-depth. Thank you for brief summary on both the men and women teams.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man: no one blasted the length of the post? </font> |
I agree, the post, though long was great. I said that already too.
Mine are often long but I think the stuff in them is useful too. Many agree, but I never blast when i see one that is not so great. Anyway, I have decided to go with AA whole heartedly based on the info I have now kept handy in the original post of WPR! And that is useful! Thanks. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man: Very interesting post, Water Polo Ref. I like the detail you provide because this gives people a pretty clear idea of a traveler's real experience with the airlines in one shot. Thank you. I am curious if there are others willing to share the experiences in the same period to see if there is any consistency: In other words, do you think it is possible that the same kinds of things happened to 2 different similar travelers? This would be something worth knowing, I think. I tend to think that when you fly, no matter what elite or other level you may hold, it can be a shot in the dark when it comes to the service you get, etc. I have family and friends who are at various levels and we compare airline travel horrors often (with a laugh, of course). I liked this thread because if can give a clear picture as to what the customer went through and not what the airline says the customer would go through. Excellent. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif +++ Now, I have a few more slightly unrelated thoughts and I mean no disrespect to Water Polo Ref and others who have commented thus far in this thread: I have written some long ones in here but this was very long as well. In fact, it was the longest thing I ever saw in here. Though WPR's may have been written with better grammar, etc. I have a few questions to some who may be reading: Why is it that no one blasted the length of the post? Not that they should, but again, it was long. It was also interesting to see that since WPR is platinum, etc on several carriers... I am not. I am gold on AA and Prem. on UAL and Platinum in Starwood. That's it. In this case, WPR had to tell us these things (about status) to get this particular story out. But I often wondered if one should be posting in the FT if one is but a mere "economy" (gasp) traveler?...I am one of those and never minded the cheap seats. I think it's great that people attain the higher status and good on ya for acheiving this. I do not have it and have not really cared. I have wondered why so many in the FT feel they must promote their status constantly, however. Seems a bit odd to me. Again, in this particular story, WPR had to include this info so this is NOT about WPR's status! I am asking the general question. I have low levels of mileage on many carriers. In fact, they are all about 35k which is fine by me. Used to have more or less, but my goal is to be positioned for free travelings to Hawaii/Carib/etc. with my wife and then in about a year plus, we don't plan to do much traveling for a long, long time. My posts on ideas of how to earn a few points here and there have been aimed at people like myself. just a regular person looking to earn some miles in a current addiction with some creative ideas. Some are creative and some in depth. I share some ideas, pick up some tips and love to talk about the marketing schemes we all see growing in this field. I am in marketing myself. Water Polo Ref's post is therefore of particular interest to me. But I wonder: Is it due to the length of my posts, or possibly, due to the fact that I am NOT elite that I get blasted for posting something as long as this one was? I am looking for intellegent opinions. In comparing travel and airlines, I also wish to compare ways of presenting mile ideas or travel thoughts. This probably opens up a huge can of worms... Once aagin, Water Polo Ref, yours was a great post and it was interesting. Maybe mine are not (to some) but I am just asking. I had to ask in here because it is about length and so I ask this of others who may be reading here but not necessarily posting in this one-yet. </font> Marathon Man, your posts are pretty much ALWAYS long. Your post above makes you sound like a cry baby.... "How come they can do it and I can't?" WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH My not liking your posts has nothing to do with your status, I would not like most of them if you were Platinum or not. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man: I agree, the post, though long was great. I said that already too. Mine are often long but I think the stuff in them is useful too. Many agree, but I never blast when i see one that is not so great. Anyway, I have decided to go with AA whole heartedly based on the info I have now kept handy in the original post of WPR! And that is useful! Thanks.</font> 2. No, the stuff in them is not always useful. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man: Is it due to the length of my posts, or possibly, due to the fact that I am NOT elite that I get blasted for posting something as long as this one was? </font> You need to reread your post before you hit the submit button. You want to put your ideas out there - fine, that's the idea of FT. But the truth is, your posts bore me to tears because most of what's in them has nothing to do with the point you're trying to make. If I got stuck next to you on a plane and you talked the way you write, I would probably kill you before we landed. And if my lawyer could get all the other passengers seated around us to testify, the judge or jury would probably rule it was justifiable homicide. Hope that wasn't too long - wouldn't want you to miss my point. Edited for a typo. [This message has been edited by Don Rickles (edited 12-07-2002).] |
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