So why the fee?...
 

So why the fee?...

Here it goes (and this has 2 parts that maybe a real airline employee on here might know):

My wife said to me, “Hey let’s go to Florida THIS WEEKEND—using miles!”

In the old days, I recall being able to do things like walking up to a desk agent and get on any plane that had a seat. BUT NO, today, things are quite different.

Now I know that one needs to book most trips including the awards well in advance to get what you want. I also know that there are fees for such things as booking award tickets at the last minute, but I still ask you all WHY? Honestly, what on earth justifies these fees? $75 just for using your award when you want to! Humbug!

We actually found the flights we wanted and it was even the times and airports we wanted. Usually you’ve got to do that like 800 days in advance when planning award travel. But $75 each person to use an award on US AIR because we were NOT doing the booking 3 or 7 or 14 whatever days out?... That’s kind of harsh, considering the flights I found would only have cost about $250+/- RT, BOS-FLL or MIA.

Needless to say, I decided to go with my AA awards for only a $50 fee each, but then we decided to bag it all together and no now airline gets our business this weekend. Boo hoo. As a wise man once said, their rule becomes their loss.

Part 2: Does anybody know if there are still airlines that let you take some award you have (say you ask them to mail you a certificate for your award to use within one year or something) and do it like the old days? Can you still ever walk up to a desk agent with your miles award and get on any plane that has a seat available anymore?

Thanks for all your thoughts!

[Oh, and though many of my posts are often long, and I am no English major, I try to say things nicely and put a creative spin on it. I like opinions that theorize on mile ideas and that save myself and YOU some $ in the process. My goal in the FT is to have fun, ask, learn, give ideas and get miles. I think I speak for most of us when I say: “If you can’t say something nice in response, then kindly say nothing at all” http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Well, back to the 2 questions, but with a positive spin on it, OK? Thanks.]

Delta does.

Oh I don't know... They thwarted you from using miles for a FREE ticket when it would have been convenient for you. By making it inconvenient they postponed having to pay up their part of the deal. In a very minor sense it's similar to cash flow management - Postpone all your payments until the last minute while expediting all that is due you. They have very slightly increased the probability that they won't ever have to give you a free ticket.

On the other hand, outstanding miles are an airlines liability - what they owe. If a plane is taking off with empty seats anyway, what advantage is that?

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Ms.DtG

Northwest does (or atleast they did in May)

On Southwest Airlines you can. Except for a very few blackout dates, your Rapid Rewards voucher is the equivalent of two one-way full-fare tickets. And you can earn the free ticket with 4 cheap round-trips booked on-line.

northwest does. I think United does too.

Hi there,
United is still pretty reasonable with award tickets. Buried in the terms and conditions of their Star Award details http://www.ual.com/ual/asset/MP_Star_Awards.pdf
it says that for a UA only fligt you need to ticket 2 hours ahead of departure and 24 hours if using a partner. There is no booking fee payable for short notice travel.

This is one area where I think UA is signifcantly better than the other major airlines in the USA.

Jason

In answer to your first question: "So why the fee?" I currently have four award tickets from NW to go from Bend, Oregon, to Seattle, then to Honolulu and Kona, and open jaw return from Maui. Total fees for four was $92.80. In the left hand corner of each ticket it broke down the tax fee for each ticket as $13.20 and $10.00. The $13.00 is probably for segment charges on the itinerary and the $10.00 is for the security tax. So I'm getting a nice award from NW. Why should NW pay for my tax fee charges that are going to the government? I'll gladly pay those fees any time.

I concur: United gets props for its last-minute award rules. Sometimes there is no availability, but you can always spend 40,000 miles to get where you need to go - even if you have to leave today - and not have to pay any extra.

In general, I tend to praise most things about AA and be critical of most things about UA. This is a big exception.

The most offensive part about AA's fee is that they call them "expedite" fees. THEY AREN'T EXPEDITING ANYTHING!! I fully understand if I have to cough up 40,000 miles to get the last seat in the back of the bus, but spare me the bogus fee!

I sort of see the point about AA using the fees to avoid giving you a free seat. But it seems to me that they are already doing that with capacity controls. You want a seat on a full flight? It'll cost you 40K instead of 25K. And - I'll give AA credit here - they are fairly reasonable with availability and award ticket rules elsewhere in their program (i.e., they let me upgrade almost any paid fare, they actually have reasonable Europe/Hawaii availability, etc.). So they WILL let you use your miles. I guess they really just don't want you using them at the last minute.

To echo an earlier poster: why do they want an empty seat on an off-peak flight if they can fill the seat and wipe 40,000 miles off their books? Perhaps an airline economist can enlighten me...

Because they can and they need money since they refuse to fix the current fare system which is broken.

I went DFW - ORD - NRT - SIN for $ 651.80 20,800 miles last weekend on AA and today priced DFW to Kansas City at $ 735.00 returning in 2 days 922 miles. I understand why the business traveller is tired of this nonsense.

The airlines really do not care if you ever use miles for tickets as they prefer cash http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

People talk about liability of the airlines regarding miles outstanding, but if they are not used, it is like Third World debt which will never be repaid.

Every month the changes to programs make the miles worth less and less and they make all the rules on how we use the miles.

Those of you who are carrying 1,000,000 miles in accounts planning to use these 3 - 5 years down the road are likely to be surprised by what it will take to use award tickets including fees.

Plan ahead and use them every chance you get if it makes sense.

They still do... as a goof, talking to my friend on the phone yesterday and we were joking about her flying from NRT to see me today. Punched up NWA.com, and GUESS WHAT, they had seats available at STANDARD rates leaving today and getting back on monday. I was shocked to say the least and no "extra/expedited" charges, just taxes.

thanks for the many tips on other carriers.
I do have awards on a few and so I will have to use the USAIR ones for pre-planned gigs. They told me in a call i just made to them about something else that no, they do not have any certs for being able to walk in. You have to plan it.

Oh well, like I said, NEXT airline!
thanks again. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

AS waives the express fee for its own awards (not partner awards) if you book online. And they waive ALL fees for their top tier elites.

Considering the difference in fare you'd pay for a last minute ticket as opposed to one you purchased 21 days out, $75 doesnt seem all that bad.

It doesn't seem bad, except the cost of issuing an e-ticket 2 days in advance isn't any higher than 100 days in advance. In fact, the cost of the reard ticket 2 days in advance is probably less, because it's much less likely to change.

I'm all for people paying more for convenience on a revenue ticket. On a reward ticket, if it doesn't cost the airline any more money, it shouldn't cost me any more money.

Time trouble and expense have nothing to do with this. They charge because they can and because some people will pay it. They also often open up seats at the last minute that will not sell and otherwise not be full. It's all about separating you from your money.

Here's the other kicker, in another recent call to USAIR regarding my possible FUTURE trip using award travel (to avoid last min. fees):

I want to take my wife possibly to ASPEN, CO. in the winter. That's enough plan-time, right?

UAL goes there. If the two airlines have the partner gig in place then I may be able to use USAIR awards to fly to ASPEN and not just DENVER (from BOS). The plans for the partnership would include UAL and UAL Express flights which Aspen does involve, so it should work--when the partnership is ON.

We would go in the mid winter, say Feb Vaca, a rather busy period. Because it is busy, one would probably have to start thinking about booking that award one right about now. It may even already be too late.

BUT, I find that I cannot even set aside the booking and get any dates yet because the two airlines have not yet solidified all things and so I cannot book a flight to ASPEN using these USAIR award tickets.

So, the CS lady said they think it will all take affect early next quarter. Based on the idea of trying to plan ahead with award tickets, there is little or no chance there will even be any seats ON the plane if I try to use an award IN Feb and have to wait to use it til Jan, Feb or whatever just to set it all up.

She actually suggested that I book the BOS-DEN portion now and then opt to pay the fees that exist for restocking the miles and re-issuing the award if and when an ASPEN itin does open up for the airline or its partner where iI'd be using the awards!
I dont think so. Again, I will have to try another carrier. Many go just BOS-DEN.

And then, even though this period is still within the 20k low-season, we do not yet know if flying on a UAL plane with a US AIR award will then require 25k...

Oh well!
Next?!?

I had that experience with AA, with a twist. I knew I was going to be stuck in Chicago over the weekend, so I decided to cash in some AA miles and fly my wife out for an early anniversary. I did it completely on-line, and there was no mention of a $75 fee, only a $10 airport fee. I even have a printout of my confirmation saying "total fees: $10" I get a call from my wife at check-in telling me they want $75. The CSm was no help. I have sent a letter to CS asking for my $75 back since they didn't inform me when I booked the award. We'll see what happens...

it is, to put it mildly , a let down. particulary for people who have paid more to fly aa for perceived future benefits. perhaps i should have concentrated on delta dawn!

That's about the best explanation that I've seen so far. "In the olden days" prior to electronic ticketing, it made sense to charge extra for short-notice reservations. Not only did the back office have to issue the paper tickets in a timely manner, but they had to be sent out express mail.

When electronic ticketing came on the scene, many carriers dropped the short-notice booking fees for e-tickets as a way to encourage passengers to use e-tickets. For some reason, AA kept the fee. It's probably no coincidence that AAdvantage is considered to be one of the most profitable mileage programs out there. They continued to charge because of the perceived value of last-minute booking. Many passengers just accept the fact that there is a rush fee of some sort. In sort, they do so because they can.

A couple of months ago, when many carriers were changing their fee structure, several added an AA-like expidite fee even for e-tickets. Again, just because they can, and because they need the money. It's really not any more complicated than that.

since the original writer asked if there was an airline that allowed him to just get a ticket without a charge, I assume from your answer that you say Delta allows it.

Wrong. They in fact do charge for tickets inside the 7 day window.

I think there are always deals out there. You have to be willing to take the time to find them.

Good Luck!

That's news to me. I thought they had free seat inventory controls. I have been told that there were no free seats on a flight (with cupon in hand) and that I would have to buy a ticket if I wanted to fly.

On the other hand, WN has no free seat inventory controls, just a few black out dates.

To summarize the thread thus far . . .

For last-minute award travel, the following carriers charge additional fees (beyond taxes, etc.) for issuing such e-tickets, while the latter do not:

Fees Imposed http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
AA, CO, DL (<7 days), US

NO Fees Imposed http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
AS (online), NW, WN, UA


[Added CO based on subsequent comments.]


[This message has been edited by SPN Lifer (edited 11-28-2002).]

I pondered this question carefully and my take on this is why only $75 fee. I suspect that all award seats are usually taken up when it nears flight time, since they allocate so few for award seating-something like 6 to 12 per flight. Then they raise the prices for the few seats that are left, hoping that business passengers pay the 1,2 or 3ks for the remainder of unfilled seats. If an award ticketer is able to snag a last minute seat, then the business traveler's money goes elsewhere. The US business model for airlines seems to be that a unfilled seat is better left unfilled if the alternative is to sell it for less than full-fare. If that is how the rules are, then $75 is a bargain.

This past Friday I booked a flight to LAX on NWA, oh yeah, and I left Friday too, I booked and left the same day, WOW. It cost me $5. I think in the old days this would have cost me some outrageous amount, but not sure what. The only thing that comes to mind is in the old days you had to call to get an award ticket, I think. This time I used the internet to book it, no customer service help for me, so it much cheaper for them to process. Could this be the ultimate difference.

Folks, if you're American Executive Platinum you get reward inventory unavailable to others and no fees for redeeming such.

Well, folks, worth the fee or not (and I obviously do not think it is worth it) my concern is that there has been no one to explain WHY there is a fee. There are some excellent theories in here and I've read them all. Thank you!

But I hoped a real US AIRWAYS airline person might enlighten us, and yet I guess they are too scared to get on this board?...

I am not platinum and do not justify fees of this nature. If I start to--if we all let them charge them, then as someone in here said, they WILL just continue to do it! "oh, it's only $75...it's only 100, 200, whatever! We don't care, take my money, please!"

NOPE: Free is free! There should be no fine print, no restrictions, no stupid changes. It is an *award ticket.* Hello!

I will fight for my right to party!

Who's with me. C'mon, was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

So as you can clearly see, I will keep trying to find out WHY there is a fee AND I will keep trying to use these awards. I think I will simply plan a new trip, use the awards up and then be done with an airline that has aweful policies... And policy is not always right. Policy is THEIR right, not THE right. There's a difference in this world and so this particular airline's policy maker just lost my business after I somehow get to redeem my honest and true free award trips-(until I hear of one day when they change their policies, that is)!

If you have to become executive platinum double secret elite (and tell US about it) just to redeem that which you earned as a mere non-status dude, then what's the point?

Of course, if you wish to gimme some of those AA awards you have laying around, I will GIVE away these 2 US Air ones!

THAT is how one choses an airline (or which ones not to take).
thanks!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

There was a thread a month or two ago in which someone posted a response from AA on why they had expedite fees. They basically said that it cost them to be able to ensure that awards could be processed quickly when needed. Presumably the payroll of extra staff to handle the fluctuations in award demand.

It's a load of horse hooey, IMO, but that was their spin.

As a practical matter, I think they're paranoid you could be a business traveler who's trying to dodge having to buy an exorbitantly priced paid ticket. Even a Saturday night stay restriction doesn't seem to calm their fears there (CO is an example).

"Expedite" fees are no longer necessary because they can't claim you owe them for having to drop everything, print a ticket and send it out overnight like in the old days.

This is a classic case of airlines trying to artificially block consumers from receving benefit from new technology and systems. They deserve the bad P.R. over it.

Next up: Reinstating "lost ticket fees" for e-tickets if you can't present a hardcopy receipt at the ticket counter!

I read a month or so ago that Continental was going to implement fees for short notice frequeent flyer tickets.

They are not exempting Platinums from these fees, only redeposits. AA is exactly the opposite. No fee to issue, change fees or $50 to redeposit.

I can't win & these people are making me crazy!

the airlines seem to have been studying the credit card rules where if you sneeze you loose. why a late payment fee? i guess it costs them more for the computer to figure it out, compute the usurous interest & post on yhe account. the reason for the bank fees is that they can but one can avoid them. the airline fees for award tickets close to flight time can't be avoided and are unconsousable[sp] if you have been waitlisted for a month or more. w/ no paper award certs, its a double whammy!

It's simple.

1. You have just spent 10 years building up a FF account.

2. The airline has the right to change the program's rules at any time.

3. If they give you the award you saved for, they lose revenue.

4. If they change the rules to make the award revenue-neutral or even positive, they win.

5. They are holding onto your miles, and you have no recourse.

Tino is way right.
And it makes me wonder why we all don't just try to get even by ...double-dipping and trying to get back a few miles for the effort?...