I think B747-347B is getting National confused with Air India. Need a low fare between New York and London? Fly Air India.

We need to start flying the upstarts or the established little guys. If you don't like one, try another. What's wrong with Alaska (an established airline), Midwest Express (fairly old), or even Frontier (new A319's). Consider ATA, Air Tran, Spirit, etc.

It looks like if you want an airline to fail, have Mike Conway in charge. He was a big-wig at HP when they went to crap in the early 90's.

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Friends don't let friends fly RJ's
I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.

[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 11-06-2002).]

So this is the second time an airline named National went bust.

The last incarnation was big in on the east coast in the 70s. Remember "I'm Bob, fly me"?

This is really sad news- so many people now out of work.
My family & I flew them r/t JFK to LAS in August and had great flights with friendly service. Much better service than I ever received from America West!
As someone who lost her job last week, I feel very badly for the employees. Not that easy to get a job right now; I haven't even been able to get an interview!
I wish them the best of luck.

The original was acquired by Pan Am... not sure I'd consider that to be a bust.

OK I returned to FT to see what all of you were saying about N7. Sean please have a heart. Many of my acquaintances and one of my dearest friends worked at N7. Some of you met him in San Diego this year or last, Chicago, or at one of the Rudi SF dim sum brunches.

N7 was a good little airline and I am sorry to see them go. Now unfortunately we can add another 1,500 employees to long list of unemployed.

In its simplest form; I feel that this is a case of overcapacity in the industry where the weak are either acquired or fold.

I do not believe that this is the last of them to fold or be acquired. There is just too much capacity right now; something has to give and yesterday it was National

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Most of the majors have unfeasible operations. Take a close look at UA, US and AA. With their preposterous fare structures...should we all say shall good riddance when they are gone? We could say that if the low-fare carriers fill the gap with "fair" fares and we just may.

National did not do anything to harm the majors. In fact, the majors hate LAS because it is a "low-yield" leisure market. But I am sure the "majors" did everything in their power (including influencing the ATSB not to give them a loan) to make sure that National ceases to exist.

National may not have had a good business plan, but with the exception of B6, WN, FL and maybe F9, the other don't either.

I think your statement of "good riddance" went way too far . National did not hurt the industry but in fact helped bring traffic into a market that the "majors" don't like too much anyway.

It is a definite loss for LAS and its economy. Hopefully B6, HP and WN will pick up the slack.

I was watching a local TV news show this morning. National might seem to have the record here for shutting things down with no warning.
They were interviewing a passenger at LAX who was planning to go to Las Vegas on them. He was waiting in the terminal for the plane, when they announced over the loudspeaker that National Airlines has shut down, and to go get your luggage back at the baggage claim. At the gate check-in, the gate agents posted a note on the podium and then left.

Like a death in the family.

Once Hunnybear and I move to Seattle, of course, the choice will be Alaska. For the short time we're still in LA, it will be America West if they comp us to Gold, otherwise American (where we have to pay for upgrades).

National had the best F service in the country. I will miss them.

QL

Let's call a "SPADE a SPADE".

This airline was [quietly] owned by, I am 99.5% certain, a consortium of casinos....which, though damaged post-911 like all entertainment/leisure, still rakes in the dough...literally....and easily has the resources to keep this airline in operations if they [consortium] so chose.

So - if *they* let this airline die, it's because they didn't want to fund it any longer. I am betting, pardon the pun, *they*, the casinos, did this to try to undercut the junket runs by so many other private carriers, and it somehow backfired (could it be lack of talent or expertise running a for-profit airline ?) In an efficient, free enterprise marketplace, then, its time for them to disappear. Sure not a "strategic asset" airline in my definition.

All in all, except for the fact that Las vegasites got ultra-cheap rides to places leading AWAY from vegas, and gamblers got cheap rides TO vegas or to stopover cities, I, too, am overall happy to see them go away and get denied at place at the feeding trough of taxpayer dollars.

Fair competition is one thing like the majors have to contend w/ daily - existing because of twisted reasons (subsidized by casinos, etc) and catering only riders from/to contorted routes, then using all the tools granted to the "open market competitors" to try to neuter their competition...is BAD for the airline industry.

As flawed as major airlines' model is, still I, as joe taxpayer, would rather subsidize a major airline operating in the open market under a pretense of being "for profit" and "for the good of the majority", ie operating a commercial schedule, THAN subsidize an airline that has no concern for being profitable...whose sole reason for existence is to bring gamblers into vegas...who has deep pockets resources available to them, ie the casino consortium that owns them...but yet [said consortium] refuses to subsidize or keep their very airline alive.

Bottom line - Doesn't pass the smell test to me.

And darned if I, as a taxpayer, have an obligation keep National Airlines alive. Let free enterprise work for a change.

Some good news: B6, which recently started serving LAS from LGB, and had announced two daily frequencies JFK-LAS beginning in January, has accelerated and expanded their plans.

Now, starting Nov 15 with one daily frequency, additional daily flights to be added in each of Jan, Feb, and March for a total of four. JFK fare will be $139 each way, with intro fare of $99 for travel to 12 Feb.

If the route turns out to be successful, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see OAK and IAD service follow.

I was watching a local channel in the Bay Area the other day and they were interviewing some guy who was about to board the plane and was handing his boarding pass to the gate agent when another gate agent called the 1st agent away to tell him something (that National had folded). When the agent came back, the passenger was told that National had folded and that the plane would not be taking off as scheduled.

OUCH. That has gotta hurt!