So, how would YOU get 'rid' of an FF program?...
 

Say you decide you finally dislike (for various reasons you may have of your own) a certain Airline now.

BUT you have a few thou--or maybe a lot of miles with their FF program.

I have a few thoughts of my own on this one, but am curious as to what people would do here? Remember, they ALL have done some nasty things to us... or will, and they switch their OWN partners and loyalties a lot like lovers get deceived in a soap opera.

An example is that you have 15,000+/- miles with the airline but that's about what you have with all the others too. Should you let 'em eventually go away by expiry or use em somehow and be done? How and what to do?

Thoughts (based on this OR your own experiences)?

------------------
If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

It's easy to keep miles active .. every now and then credit a car rental to that program.

I'd just keep them active. Maybe there will be a credit card or some other offer in the future that will give you enough miles for you to redeem something worthwhile, such as a ticket for a friend or relative.

-David

for >7 years now, for personal (family related) reasons, I don't pay swiss (formerly Crossair, Swissair) a swiss cent - but I still earn a lot of Qualyflyer miles (credit cards, Coop-Superpoints, etc) and use these miles for award tickets (for myself, and every year for the XMAS-trip of my mother in law from Mallorca to Switzerland).

I have thought seriously about ditching DL because of the inability to upgrade internationally on reasonable fares. I have been DL Platinum for three years, gold several years before that. I have LOTS of Skymiles. One possible scenario: Burn SkyMiles for several years, and when they deplete, take my three or 4 old Platinum cards over to another carrier and ask to be comped status.

RobertS975, I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm already in the process of trying to get comped at AA.


------------------
StuckWithDelta

re: getting comped on other airlines.

They normally want to see your recent STATEMENTS, not your card. So, do not wait too long to go after the comp.

I still have a few hundred thousand Delta miles from when I flew them (until 1999). Since I use many of my miles to give family and friends award travel, I just make sure they use DL once in a while so the miles don't vanish. Can't do that for travel companions, since I want my own flights to be on AA now, but it works for bringing a California niece back east for family gatherings and stuff like that.

My goal was to "consolodate" in the " To simply" sense of the word...

My goal was to "zero out" some of the fledging FF accts I have held. This would not only make it easier to manage what I do have in the end, and thus concentrate more on the ones I really like, but also it would enable me to not even care one bit about having a few miles lying around in some airline I dont even want my best friend to fly! (thus, grabbing them a ticket using your award miles may be a curse). The process took time and yet, if you spend time and thoroughness on a topic in the beginning, it gets simpler and easier in the end, I think.

To do this action I speak of above, what I have beguun to do is to SHORE UP my miles accts using idine, etc, and other things we all know about to earn miles without flying, and THEN plan to later USE the awards, and then be done with that FF account.

I learned a few things in the process about things, miles, airlines, marketing schemes that are sometimes bogus, timing, and oh yes, about people. And oddly, some of the airlines I thought I did not like anymore proved me wrong, while I was right about some others.

The basic dictum: I once may have gleefully set up FF accts with everyone but they may never add up if I fly on too many carriers so why not pick and chose the ones I really like or use and get rid of the rest. This is the consolodation the experts talk about but once you are in, you need to come out of it and then find your new base. that is what I have done. I did not have a ton of miles, but enough. It was worth the tries, I think, and still is. the ones I like are growing and the ones I do not like or need are not going to go to waste after all. This is kind of why my wife was looking to put her mere 5000 UAL miles into HHilton. She never really uses that airline, to date. Her last UAL flight put the miles onto a partner anyway, where she does have a growing FF acct.

In the case of at least one airline--I think Delta, if you ever do leave an exact "0" bal in your FF acct for a certain length of time, they will cancel you out completely. If you have no elite status with an airline, then who cares! Plus, I suspect that if you quit in this way (get taken off their list, per sae) then you could always join up again and get all the new account membership bonusses again if you ever change your mind.

We all sometimes have too many little memberships to things in the mail and on line out there anyway, right? Let's slim down a bit and get it simpler.

BUT, what I have been able to do (and yes, I have had some time on my hands-I admit--which always seems to be a "dig" that people love to give to others as if that were a bad thing) is this:

I have "brought up" some FF accts to exactly 5,10,25, or 35k award levels, etc. I figured out who was partners with who and which ones fly to places for where my miles will take me, like Hawaii or Aspen, etc. and which ones I may never use after the free flights for my wife and I. I used idine to top things off to exact or as close to an even thousand mark that CAN be useful, and that way, when you need to fly, you dont have miles hanging that are rendered useless. For example, the wife had 4,910 miles on her UAL so one quick lunch to the local pub where my debit card was temporarily assigned by me to idine to HER somewhat useless UAL acct (which legally works by the way) for $9 including tip, and she had the 90 miles needed to get her to 5k, which I have since learned will be worth 10k hotel points that we can actually USE one day together!

UAL or others would have made me have to buy 1000 miles (their lowest incriment) in order to later do that same transfer. I can idine at 8 places near the office and so why not go that route?

More thoughts?

How about, instead of just getting into a pissing contest, doing something useful with those miles. You can donate those miles to charities. I believe that some of the airlines actually run those and they pool those miles so that kids that are sick or dying can fly to places where they can get treatment.

It really isn't that difficult to keep track of all the FFP if you have a computer. Try the "MileTracker" program to consolidate all program in one place. That way, you can check all programs on one mouse click. Too keep track with expiration dates, just set up a spreadsheet or something.

I actually have fun doing so keeping track of all my miles and hotel points - think of this as a game.

Not to sound like a killjoy, but I think the charitable donation of miles is a bit sketchy.

My first question is this: let's say there's a kid in California that needs to get to a cancer treatment facility on the other side of the country. Are the airlines effectively saying "we won't give this kid a ticket unless YOU donate the miles"? Why don't they just donate the ticket to the child?

Second question: the airline says my donation isn't tax deductible. However, when they give a seat to a kid (presumably with my miles), is THAT tax-deductible to the airline? Somehow I'm betting it is.

If I donate miles to charity, I will follow a different method: I will donate a free trip to a charity auction. More money will get raised, and somehow I suspect the kid with cancer is still going to make it to his doctor.

I could donate miles but I suppose since we are not talking about several hundred thou, like some have mentioned having, that my using the ones I had earned may be a better choice. I donate or raise moeny already in other ways for such things (marathons, etc.)

I dont mean to get in to any pissing contest either but I am a bit bummed out that no one has had other thoughts or strategies on this stuff... yes, you could track many things on your pc, but like I said, having less is more and also, not all those trackers do everything. Milepoint does not show your DL, Milesource does not do AA, and so on. Plus, these TOO need yet another password to have to use and remember. Eventually, I am trying to head to ward LESS pc use, not more.

It is like a game... the whole miles thing is kinda fun. I do enjoy it and love checking but I bet once I have kids and all that, I will lose track for sure. Kind of like imaginining that you may never forget a password and then one day you find yourself sitting there wondering what it was... An example of airlines being silly in this respect is Continental. Their FF program requires something like 4 numbers for a PIN. BUT their CO Vacations site requires no less than 6! So much for using the same PW, if you ever wanted to. OK, so I can alter it, but it goes on and on. I have control over tons of little accts or things I set up for myself and know what they all are, but when my father died, do you know how HARD it was to later get AOL to let us transfer the membership to my mom? They had a lot of nerve when his PIN was their biggest concern!
OUCH!

IN reference to miles, I supposed that being able to use em (maybe before they go away either by some airline rule or by other means) or lose em, is a good thing to strive for. I know how to keep something from expiring but what's the point if you never use it. So I made a goal to BRING UP such accts for once and for all, and then use em up.

just wanted to know if anyone else has done this type of thing and how they approached it.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

An useful elite level on one FFP per alliance is my aim. I have lately 'put to sleep' my redundant Air France, Continental, and JAL accounts:

- AF: free ticket redeemed, about 4,000 miles expired.

- CO: rounded up with car rental and Amex MR miles, then transferred to Hilton. Less than 200 miles left to expire.

- JL: redeemed for a hotel night, about 4,000 miles expired.


Probably wasted about 50K miles all programs combined in the past 15 years, mostly because I did not have time to use them.

The only dormant FFP's (AA, DL, UA) I keep are ones which only need partner activity every 3 years. I tend to round them up with hotel and car miles, and redeem at low levels in the offseason.

I'm a novice compared to most here, but here is how I am closing out my CO account:

1. topping it off to 5000 increments with iDine.

2. Then transfer to HH.

For USAir, I will top off to an award level then redeem the ticket.

Basically, to close an account you have to find a way to transfer the miles out without taking too much of a hair cut or a way to redeem the miles for something useful. In order to redeem, you usually have to spend some effort to top off your account. Another trick is to take advantage of reduced mileage awards--many airlines have 20,000 domestic awards, and CO frequently has (or did have--havent' paid attention in a while) discounted awards. For example, I flew to Rio for only 17,500 points! Another strategy is to redeem the points for merchandise like magazines, luggage, etc., although the exchange rates are not usually that great.

As for taxes, you can't deduct the gift since you never paid tax on the realiziation of the income. If you did, then your deduction would net against the income and you would have zero. Same thing for the airline--if they deduct the value of the ticket, then they also have to recognize income on the ticket equal to its value less maybe some other deductible expenses like overhead.

As others have said, let miles expire, donate them, or slowly accumulate miles until you reach the next award level. Consider magazine awards (look carefully and you will find them). Consider milepoint.com (or similar name) where you can spend them. Consider waiting a year or so before acting because your travel patterns may change and you may go back to that airline.

I think there are some good suggestions here. One thin that I have been eyeing for my little-used CO and AA accounts are inter-island flights in Hawaii. 5K RT on AA; 10K on CO.

Marathon man, you speak of simplifying your life with less PC use and fewer accounts to keep up with. Aren't you going through a lot of trouble to switch a credit card to a different idine account and then go out and order the right things from the menu to get you right at your award level? Doesn't seem overly simple, IMO.

yorock

I believe that in orderto end up with a FF account easily, it first is not a goo idea to keep hundreds of thousands of miles : a FF account is not a savings account. If you have less than 100 000, you an get rid of them very easily, and if you are down to less than 10000, get a free magazine or let them go, over 10000, to up, get a free flight and stop flying the dreaded airline. Done this with BA, VARIG, DL and CO : all accounts are now flat or there is just one flight to take.

yorock, you are way true!
ha ha ho...

The thing is that it is indeed aa very complicated (and sometimes drawn out) process to do much now in order to later BE simplified. I have had to switch and do things for a little while now to reach said goals.

I am now also working on this process with my wife's accts... I have almost 'finished' with mine. They are all at the award levels I like to have ready for future use, and that will probably all happen within the next 6 months (she will love the multiple trips to beaches and ski areas I can take her on for free!) So now it is her mile accts we are trying to work with. AND YES, she thinks I am as nuts as many here may, and so be it! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The problem though is that in the process of my 'ramping up' to become 'simple' later, I GOT ADDICTED TO THIS and YOU see it as clear as day!

ha ha ha.

But one day... oh yes one day...
???

That's fine, but I prefer to take the easier option, one that is right there in front of me. And if I only have, say, 17K miles in an account, it ain't gonna buy a ticket for someone. So I'll just say, okay, fine, take the miles, pool them, and fly that kid somewhere.

Your option, while certainly a good one, seems like too much work for me, so I'll take the easy route.

with the whole tax and charity thing...

I belive that donating miles helps (would do it if I had several many hundred thou, etc. but I do not. So I donate $ when I can instead) but if you ever wanna try to convince any tax people on the WORTH of whatever you donated, try this:

If you go to book some award ticket, say 30k on DL to Hawaii and then you ask, "Hey Delta, how much would that ticket have cost me if I bought it instead of using miles?"

they tell you it is like $700 or something.
Then go to the site and set up an itinerary as if you were gonna buy one...

Then print that and show everything to the tax person.

I bet you could get the write off!
Worth a shot??

<<I bet you could get the write off!
Worth a shot?? >>

Yeah, It's worth a shot for a nice little tete-a-tete with an IRS agent.

RTowne

it's all in the way you file, mate!
I have not cheated on taxes, but if there is a way to claim, I will find the loohole. If "they" ever come callin, I have ALLLLLLLLLL the records to show and without a flinch on my part. Then, I would simply do what they tell me. Audits are rare. I doubt it would be a problem if done using the existing laws of the day/hour when you file.

know the laws. It is most likely in there.

Sorry MarathonMan,

No real new ideas. I thought donation but the naysayers made me thing and I don't know if the qty's we are taking about they take.

Accumulating up to a free ticket and then just taking the ticket...already mentioned. I took this route when I moved from DL back to UA. Using idine or just buying outright.

I didn't see this one (prolly just blind). Aren't there still those mile conversion services? Milepoint or something like that, never really kept track. Couldn't you transfer into common currency and then keep or move to your preferred FF programs. Also can you move to hotel programs? (I haven't really looked at much beyond accumulating with airlines so the above recommendation may be sketchy.)

Like I mentioned above, "MileTracker" is going to save you lots of time if you have many accounts that you can't keep track of yourself. Check this out...

http://www.moonlightlabs.com/miletracker.html

If you don't want to keep them, then the only real options are to transfer them somewhere else, and accept the loss that comes with going that route. The only reasonable conduits (in my opinion and to my knowledge) are HHonors and Diners Club.

-David

re: Deductibility of FF miles...

There was a huge thread here in the Buzz a month or two ago about this very topic. General consensus is that the IRS would just as soon consider FF miles as something with a value of zero, much like the coupons you clip out of the paper aren't counted as income. They won't tax 'em if you don't try to deduct 'em - at least that's the IRS' take.

The airlines all have links to donate miles to charity. Those links say the miles aren't deductible, but I don't think that's for another reason: namely that the airlines are taking your write-off for you in the form of the free seat they give to the kid or family in need of medical care. In other words, if *you* got to write off the donation, the airline couldn't write off the same donation in their corporate taxes.

Whenever I've been to a charity auction and seen a free trip, it has always had a "Value = $XXX" associated with it, like all items in the auction. That leads me to believe that the donor gets the write-off for that value, and the buyer gets a write-off if and only if he buys the item for higher than that value.

Anyone who has been to a big charity auction knows that people tend to throw high values on the items they donate, and whether they ever get questioned about it by the IRS down the road is another story. It's not unusual to see 2 free coach tix in the US, with typical award restrictions, valued at $800-1000 for the purposes of the auction. You or I would probably value these tickets closer to $300 or $400 because they are so restricted and don't earn miles, but what the heck: somebody usually pays the higher value for them for the charity.

The best way out is Hilton Honors, it's not hard to get any FF account up to 5000 and then shift to Hilton.

You just don't want to pass through HH back to another airline.

Rental Car, Hotel Partners, Idine - Safeway for UAL just Keep track, use mile tracker, and when you get to 5,000 move to the next one with orphan miles, when it is depleted dump it from your partner list and concentrate wher you want to be.

Also, if you are interested in United miles and have Continental - you can "launder" them through Amtrak at a 1-1 conversion rate. I believe you can convert CO to Amtrak, and then convert Amtrak to UAL. I don't think it goes the other way.

If you only have a few miles on a carrier you don't intend to use again - perhaps 2000. You could just say you have something of no value - and do what you normally do with something of no value - ignore it.