...and yet, having intercourse, say, to produce a baby, for example, is not wrong, but we rarely openly disclose when or with whom... And then, should we TELL anyone until we are CERTAIN that we are indeed having this kid? I mean, why wait a few months to announce the good news?!?! Why not just tell everyone now! Is THAT wrong too? It is hidden, after all, as are many presents on certain birthdays or holidays.

these are miles... Let it go til a few weeks and then we shall see if THEY are worthy enough to even have good enough accounting skills to catch their own error. If not, do you wanna do much future entrusted business with them anyway?

Just a thought, it's hard enough trying to get the Airlines to give you the points owed in the first place. Imagine the problems of trying to get them to take them back.

Call them a few times and then invoice them for 60,000 points for your time and trouble http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Nigel

I have to go now but I must thank everyone for reading some of my long posts on this subject. I didnt start it but man, I love this one. It is of great importance to me as I am involved with such things in my own job (marketing) and yet, I have one more thing to say:

Write the airline a letter dated, say, 3 years ago (could have gotten lost in their shuffle) and bring up some huge problem that you think you should get awarded 60,000 miles for suffering. Even if you never get a reply, they may reward you... or may HAVE...

I once complained to US AIR about something and later I got a personal call from their marketing department and right then and there they slapped 10k onto my acct just like that for the trouble (in part, my suggestion to get miles over vouchers, if anything). The old "but what if everyone did it" does not work because we all know that 90% of the issues and complaints either never get sent in, dealt with or replied to, not to mention awarded like the customer hoped for.

I was so happy with that 10k that I continued and remain a rather loyal customer to that airline. They got my 10k worth of business back many times over since.

Good night and thanks!
I hope no one got mad at this one. I just have a few radical vies on some things being in the business myself...

Another real example and a real life dilema. As I was boarding a PHL-SFO flight, I noticed a wad of twenty dollar bills on the gate ramp. There was not anyone in front of me. When I entered the plane, there were three businesman in expensive suits up front and a man in poor health in the back. As I counted out the $500 in crisp twenties, the angel and devil were bouncing up and down on both shoulders. A primo dinner and even better wine could be had with this ching in SFO or, The big OR. I could go ask the poor man in the back if he had lost any money. Long story short, I
asked the man in the back if he had lost any money. Affirmative for the amount and the denomination. My moral dilema is what if there hadn't been a Poor Old Man in this story? I'm not sure if I would have asked my Upfront Companions if they had lost the dough ray me. Does that make me a bad person?

Geez, a lot of traffic for so few miles...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

To be honest I was thinking about 2 options:
1. Keep them and using them...we all think about this but I admit my 'greedy' side.
2. Keep them but give them to charity or something.

In both cases I would be concerned about the miles being recalled.

However, the game aspect of what we do is indeed a big part of what I enjoy about this board and the race for miles. I'm just going to wait a month to see if they catch the error. (unlikely, he he he...) If they don't I am going to send them back and let's see what they say and/or do.


Cheers!

Hear, hear! You arguements swayed me! to be honest what would make returning them fun is to see their response in the game.

Just think of this possibility: you call and tell them the extra miles, they thank you for your honesty and take the miles back. A few weeks later, an audit program caught the original mistake, and deduct your account for the miles. Now try to explain that one to your friendly airline service desk.

My variation on Ockham's razor - the simplest answer is probably correct.

So you can go with a half page explanation about how airlines make mistakes, one hand washes the other, about how it's not really money but a perishable commodity, how they don't have any real objective value, about how airlines change rules on us so it is justified, etc.

OR

You can say - "I got something that doesn't belong to me, I should give it back"

If you choose the first, just admit you don't have saint-like ethics and spare us the convoluted justification.

Hey CPRich, I admit my lack of saintly thoughts on wanting to keep them (either for my enrichment or Robin Hood antics). And to be honest one of the prime thoughts that eventually they might be caught in an audit prompted me to my decision. But it will be fun to see their response to somebody trying to give back some miles.

I can only say "Deja vu all over again." I do teach ethics at two community colleges but don't give ethical advise. I am happy to see that some forum members have progressed beyond their college days. Now, please, let's give this topic a rest.

In war, one could just say something like: "Bomb them to pieces and get it over with. Done." Similarly, in this case, I think the simplest answer is not always correct--and it's still not anything like money or anything else. Though I did ace the Logic class back in college, it was a long long time ago.

This one will probably not rest til 4-6 weeks from now, which is about how long things take on both ends of mile earnings and deductions.

I don't always have saint-like ethics but I also don't have criminal intent; I go by each circumstance as it comes to me and try to base it all on the things that I have experience with in that subject at the time. Yes, we all justify things in many ways. Ever run a red light-just once-at 4am because it really doesnt matter on some quiet country road you've known all your life? Been late for work or 'looked' at another member of the opposite sex when you are no longer single?

So, at least wait as long as the airlines do to post any miles TO you... 4-6 weeks. I'll now wait that long to hear more. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

I'm no saint either, but at least I'm honest and up front about it. I just found some of the justifications/reasoning others used to answer your question to be amusing.

I too would probably give them a call and let them know they double counted, and then live with the result. If they couldn't figure out how to take them back after that notice, I'd keep them with a clean conscience. If they took them back, everything is as it should be and I feel good. If they screw up and debit me twice, I'd call and yell my head off<g>.

Well Everyone...it draws to a close.

I cashed in my miles for a first class ticket to Venus and am going to disappear into the Venusian tropical swamps just to try and get my free lunch, so much for TANSTAAFL! That would be on a partner airline so they can't track me as well as they normally would.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

They moved faster than my bank did. It took my ff program 2 days to catch the error and deduct it. When by bank double depositted $3000 it took them a whole 7 business days. (and nah don't worry, I wouldn't have kept that except I check my FF almost daily and bank once a week so things come to light at a different speed).

Thanks

As the recipient of 225,000 "bonus" Skymiles earlier this year, I've thought a bit about this.

Bottom line is KARMA. Pay now or pay later.

The miles are NOT yours. You should give them back.

My miles are now gone but I feel very good about my decision.

Rhetorical ? To all who would give the miles back,

Do you apply this to the other areas of your life?

Rarely do I see righteous behavior in real life, kind of like the person who just left the church after sermon and is swearing at a fellow driver who isn't moving fast enough.

My reality would be:

find extra miles in my account, I use them.
find extra $ in my bank account, I use it.
Open package of clothes, found I was shipped an extra, I keep it.
Get home and find that cashier did not ring an item, yet I still have it, I keep it.
Friend who plays hooky from work on a Friday afternoon, I enjoy being with them and do not tell their company (even if I'm a shareholder)
Get double upgraded on a flight, I don't point it out and take a single upgrade.

See $ on ground that person in front of me dropped, I give it to the owner.
Store cashier gives me too much $, I give it back.

To me there is a difference between who I should be righteous with and who not.

Let he who is sin free cast the first stone.