Value of status and points in salary
 

NO please don't tell me to search. This is not another what is the value of my points post. I am currently in a job that allows (makes) me travel a fair amount. As you can see on my profile I am 2p with UA but on pace to make 1P this year. And I have DIA with HH. I am considering changing jobs to a position that will not require travel or have very minimal travel. So I will be losing the airline status and at least dropping back to Gold with HH (amex card will keep it at gold).
What kind of salary equivalent would you put on the benefits of elite status and the associated points that could be used on and for "upgraded vacations" and/or more frequent vacations? I know I could project out the cents per point earned to get a number but what are your feelings on the intangibles of that "upgraded vacation" and the elite status? Is it worth 1k, 5k, 10k per year?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

you can put the value better than others....what has been the value of the mi's/pts that you have used?...

many people feel that the time w/family is worth something....

i would think that i wouldn't use the loss of company paid travel as a reason that you should be paid more....

good luck....

Status to Pay
 

well here are my feelings on this. I have looked at this because I was offered a position back at work with almost no travel
Value of airline miles would be the following
1. How many tickets can you get with your miles?
2. Figure out the cost if you were to buy those tickets.
3. would you take a trip with your family if you had to pay for it? If you could negotiate enough money to be able to take trips with the family and be at home then it would be well worth it.
4. Really can't put a proce on elite status if you are not travellign that much. If you travel little then Elite status may not be worth very much except whenthere are issues while traveling and you could use the elite status to get you home from the trip

Hope this sparks something or helps

Two jobs, otherwise equivalent; A involves 50,000 miles/year travel and four weeks in hotel rooms; B has negligible travel. Are you asking how much more B should pay? Most people would put it the other way around, since elite status doesn't make up for all the time on planes, in hotels, sitting in airports away from home, etc., etc. Ask yourself: if I had job B now, how much of a cut would I take to get A?

If you tell the folks with job B that you think you should be paid extra for giving up all the travel hassles, I suspect they'll laugh out loud. You may feel that way, but unless you're the only qualified applicant they have, be aware that most of the world - including folks who claim to enjoy travel, such as myself - feel the other way around. Yes, I enjoy travel, but I like being able to decide where to go and when to go there, too.

Also, while earning status on the company dime and then taking advantage of it in your personal travel is not unethical, people who are not frequent travelers may not understand the nuances of how this works. They may see it as taking advantage of company money to get some sort of poorly-understood (by them) personal benefit outside normal channels. Keep this in mind when you plan how to present the issue to them, if you do.

You must really enjoy traveling and/or be single to put it this way. Many would take a pay cut to get off the road and be home with their peeps.

If elite status is really important to you, how much would you pay to earn it? either outright or via mileage runs on your own dime. That's a good starting point. I personally don't fly enough to qualify for status legitimately, but enough to justify wanting it. Therefore I do MR's when I can't buy my way in somehow. It is still cheaper than paying for premium seats.

I'd play it cool with your bosses. I don't think many would consider loss of elite status as something to negotiate salary over.

Traveler

To add some more info to my original post. I am married but no kids at this point but no plans for kids anytime soon. I am able to work from home when I am not on the road. The new position would involve a 30-45 minute commute each way. After talking with Mrs. Cayenne92 she said if all things were equal she would rather have me travel rather than commute each day. Her rational is we would have more time together when home.

Your thoughts have been helpful for me so far. Thanks.

Cayenne,

In light of your last post, the advice of this total stranger is that you should keep the current job. It sounds like the flexibility of working from home allows you a good bit more time with your wife. Commuting would add 1-2 hours to an ordinary 9 hour workday. Plus it's commuting. Ack. To my mind, the ability to work from home when you are not traveling is a big plus.

My best advise is "listen to ms. Cayenne92" and figure out if all things otherwise are equal. I assume that you love her more than your wallet-candy and your priority boarding and us here at FT? :)

The new information puts a new face on things. Most of the time, less travel means more time at home. Here, the job with less travel gives you less time at home. The new job would have to offer more money, not to make up for travel perks, but to make up for that. They're asking you to give up a lot of time with your wife, and the rest of it doing something you get a personal kick out of, instead of sitting in a cubicle. Personally, I'd say it has to offer enough more that you couldn't turn it down and she'd agree - not just go along, but because she really sees professional advancement in it for you.

It sounds like your current position is probably the better choice if it is a job that is acceptable to you.
Is your wife at home or does she have a commute? That might factor into it... if you both commute and arrive home at essentially the same time it is a wash. If she is at home and you have the benefit of having lunch together and being free as soon as you are finished working for the day then you get to spend a lot more time together. For me - that would be the biggest benefit.

Another thing to consider if you are going to commute is the cost of fuel (likely to go up) and wear and tear on your vehicle? I think they figure the cost of wear and tear at something like $.32/mile - though it may be higher now. When my husband changed jobs - we saved about $50 week on fuel alone.

Now our situation is a little different because I go with my husband when he travels (he does 80% travel 20% telecommute). I can work from anywhere so the only added expense is my flights which we pay for ourselves. Don't know if that would work for you folks but we sure love it!

Forget about the salaries: do you think you'll like the new job more than the existing one?

I've had jobs in the past that ranged from 100% travel - every M-F in airports - to zero travel - a solid year where I didn't have to board a plane for business purposes. Now I travel about 20% of the time: one or two trips a month.

My current situation is probably my favorite scenario now that I have a family. Why not 0% travel, you ask? It's hard to put a finger on it - it definitely doesn't have to do with miles/points - I think I've always liked being out working directly with clients, whereas going to the same office every day is more of a dull grind.

Your current level - the "1P" level in United terms - sounds a lot like what I do. I would probably not be nearly as happy if I had to do this so often that I became 1K. I just made Marriott Platinum, which was sort of an Oh-sh** moment - 60 nights away from home in the past 12 months, not counting a few HH and SPG nights...

Anyway, on the surface it sounds like you're in a good situation...if you enjoy the work itself of course.

Don't know if your head works the way mine does, but if I were offered a new job where everything else balanced out and I could discern, say, $10,000 extra for the "loss" of travel benefits, I could, on paper, make the analysis suggested above. That is, I could tell myself, "Well, self, if I use that extra cash to take the personal trips that used to be free, and/or to enhance the pleasure trips I take, then maybe I'll come out ahead."

I could tell myself that, but I know that's not the way it would actually work out. In practice, I'd put that extra cash toward retirement or a nicer house, and end up taking fewer, less wonderful pleasure trips.

One of the things I really appreciate about miles and status, and other things like free companion tickets is that they are currency that can only be spent on travel, and so I have to travel to derive the value. The way my psychology works, it's a way of making sure the inertia of the daily grind doesn't get in the way of my love for travel.

...so long as she has not ulterior motives in favoring the job with a lot of travel for hubby.:D

And as for how much of a value to assign to elite status with UA, one way to answer that question is to see what value FTers put on "gifts" of 3P (gets you E+ seating) and 2P (a bit more than E+ seating) status. The value of points (miles), RDM rather than EQM, is even easier to set.

This had me laughing out loud.

Concur.

Not exactly answering your question.
I actually asked for more pay (and got it) when the travel load headed north. As another poster said, some people would take a pay cut for less travel. I am in that category. Catching an outbound overseas flight on Sunday and returning home the following Saturday is not my idea of having a good time.

I'd put a negative value on it. Traveling for work means that you work more, are away from family and friends, commonly end up spending more of your own money while traveling and have to put up with the hassle of travel. The costs of losing time and health far outweigh any travel benefit. Most of the travel benefits are only really valuable for people on here because they travel so much.

If I traveled only once per year, going to the airport an hour later because I have no status would be no big deal.

I think travel for work could end up being a financial positive, if you work for the right company. If you are gone two weeks for business (I'm single, so have no family considerations weighing in here), that's two weeks you don't have your typical expenses at home. You are not buying groceries, using your own air conditioning, paying for your commute, or washing your own towels or making your bed. You save money in that regard. On top of that, you probably have a per diem covering your meals and anything extra. Working harder means you have less time to spend that per diem, and could pay off with a bigger bonus at the end of the year. And that doesn't even include the value, which varies person to person, of status-earning programs...

When I travel for work, I tend to come out ahead...

Usually I'd agree...except for the fact that the OP's travel job allows him more overall time (than a traditional in-town office job) with family/friends because of a favorable arrangement on the non-travel days.

Financially, I always come out ahead on the weeks that I travel... Healthy? Yeah, I gotta agree there... I bring my running gear with me and try to bang out a 6-8 miler each day I'm traveling, but I'm sure it doesn't offset the food & booze I consumer during business trips. :o

Here, here! Very well put.

Steve

I tend to agree with Mile-Hor. When I'm on the road (80% of the time) all of my expenses are paid - Food, rental car, gas, incidentals, etc.. When I'm home, all of those expense are on me. I would guess I "earn" an extra $5K-$10K per year due to not incurring expenses.

I do not attribute any of this to elite status though. To me Elite Status just makes the travel time more comfortable. If I stopped travelling I would not need these benefits and thus they'd have no value.

I've been married for 21 years; I assume that's longer than you.

Do what your wife wants if it's not that big a deal to you either way. It works out better and cheaper in the long run, believe me.

"I think travel for work could end up being a financial positive, if you work for the right company. If you are gone two weeks for business (I'm single, so have no family considerations weighing in here), that's two weeks you don't have your typical expenses at home. You are not buying groceries, using your own air conditioning, paying for your commute, or washing your own towels or making your bed. You save money in that regard. On top of that, you probably have a per diem covering your meals and anything extra. Working harder means you have less time to spend that per diem, and could pay off with a bigger bonus at the end of the year. And that doesn't even include the value, which varies person to person, of status-earning programs...

When I travel for work, I tend to come out ahead..."

I can see your point there. It seems to me though that I always end up eating costs (missing receipts, toiletry items, etc) and by the time I get my expenses paid there's often a finance charge. There's also the cost of more business clothes, dry cleaning, etc. You have to figure those costs.

As for a per diem, that would be applicable if you work for a company that does that. Most don't, but if yours does that is certainly a consideration. I'm also yet to see or hear of anyone getting a bigger bonus related to extra travel. That might happen with some consultants, but I'd verify that before you put that into consideration.

In terms of being young and having no family, I find it worse being this way and having to travel for work. It is very difficult to keep momentum in relationships when you're gone 1/2 of the time and working like crazy. Spending a weekend sitting around your house because you're jet lagged and burnt out from a long week of being the road warrior is much easier for someone with kids who want him/her at home. That is not to mention that your friends will want to go to restaurants and bars and that's what you've done all week. It also makes it very hard to keep participating in sports teams, etc, when your schedule is erratic.

To me, traveling when you're young is much easier than when you're older. Most people I work with call it a break given their insanely busy daily domestic schedules and pretty much all of their real quality time with the kids is on the weekends anyways.

Even with my basic travel expenses all reimbursed by my employer/clients, I still end up spending a lot of money out of pocket for all my weekly travel. There are many extra expenses involved in being on the road that are not reimbursable or above reimbursable amounts that I wouldn't have if I was at home. I haven't done the math, but I think if I saved up all that money I'd otherwise be spending on the road, I'd be able to pay for the vacations I'm taking using points and miles. I could probably get more bonuses, too, if I was able to spend all the unproductive time I spend in transit working on going the extra mile for my job, as well. It seems to me like it would all even out. The difference would be that I'm used to getting my vacation travel for "free" and not saving up for it.

Amen. I've been home 4 days and 3 nights in the past 30 days. I'd take a 20k cut just to know I'll be home twice that each month.

*sigh*

I left my job where I was traveling every week to take a job with a pay cut as well as with no travel. I am sure then when you take out all the per diem expenses, I lost quite a bit, but I was much happier at my job so the pay wasn't as important... Of course I was since laid off from that job, so be careful what you wish for!

As many have already said, there is no definate value to put on it. I left my previous job partially because my wife and I were tired of the constant travel. On the other hand, I did accumulate a decent amount of points and free trips so we took full advantage of that. A business trip to an interesting destination once in a while is a nice break from the office. Repeated trips gets to be a drag.

I would put zero value on it or perhaps see it as a negative, because no employer would pay you less, dangling the status and points in front of you. There are probably more people that would rather not have to travel than have to.

Did you do a search? I think you should do a search first.