Usually, everything is up for grabs in a divorce proceeding.

Just remember that it does not hurt you to ask for this as a measure of settlement.

It is always a bummer to hear about failed relationships.

I'm going on the assumption that these were 100% earned on biz travel; Pending Company policy; a case could be made that the company owns them and lets the employee use them as he/she sees fit whether it be for free award tickets, upgrades, or other purposes like paying for lounge access. In that case, he/she could give them back to the company rather than give them to the spouse or just never claim them going on the basis that the miles, like all company property belong to the firm. The company just might allow him/her to keep the miles if returned by the employee (a handshake agreement with the boss). since they technically would not be his/her asset then the miles would not have to be pooled with the other assets.

IMHO, there is no way that these should be pooled. He/She should do whatever it takes to not have these included.

BTW, whatever happened to the non-transferability of miles? Does it apply in this case; from the airlines perspective I mean?

I have never understood some women's position that they are *entitled* to whatever they can get in a divorce. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif Miles belong to whoever accrued them. If one person paid for all the tickets, then it's open for discussion.

Maybe Randy can help on this issue.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/travel/...quent-side.htm

Actually, I do know of one case where the person who had the miles in their account had to "purchase" tickets for the ex-spouse equal to half of the mileage total. They could either use miles or money to purchase those tickets.

(No, not me, as I am happily married. But we do tease each other about who would get all the points and miles!)

From an attorney's perspective, some of the replies above are really quite amusing, notwithstanding how authoritatively they are presented.

The only thing I can say is... they have frequent flyer miles in Kansas?

[This message has been edited by emaij (edited 06-18-2002).]

Well Jamie, you don't say where you are from, so I can't rebutt.

However, yes they do have frequeNt flier miles in Kansas - how else do you expect us to get anywhere useful! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Also, as mentioned before, I did find an old article in Inside Flyer - and different airlines have different policies. A sampling:

AA: The rules of the court decree apply.
AmEx: Points are not property and cannot be assets in any type of settlement.
CO: Miles are not transferrable, and can only be distributed in a settlement by cashing in for awards.
Delta, NW: Transfer OK, with a court order.
United: Not transferrable as part of a domestic relations matter.

I can speak from experience having gone through this in TN and yes she did get 1/2 the miles (at least the ones she knew about). My lawyer, perhaps not a good one, tried everything mentioned previously on this board but no luck. Community property/assets is all the judge kept saying. Good luck to your friend.

Once again the miles have no value, therefore in most places they are not something to be apportioned. BTW, we have no clue from the original post whether the wife has miles, whether she earns more money, nothing.

I am more shocked here by the idiotically old fashioned belief that all women in divorce are either worse off than the husband, or that they don't work AND that they are entitled to everything!

Exactly! Look at J. Lo! Wonder how much her hubby of a few months will get? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

This would make for an interesting colloquy:

Her honor, Judge Thumbthwart: Counsel, what is the value of your client's 500,000 British Airways miles?

Hfly, Esq.: Zero, your honor. The airline says the miles have no value.

Her honor, Judge Thumbthwart: How many Concorde round-trip tickets would the miles buy, Mr. Hfly?

Hfly, Esq.: Four, your honor.

Her honor, Judge Thumbthwart: And each of those tickets cost how much?

Hfly, Esq.: $12,500 each, more or less.

Her honor, Judge Thumbthwart: Thank you, Counsellor.

If I ever get divorced again, I do hope that my ex-to-be hires Atty Hfly.



[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 06-18-2002).]

The key appears to be to put as much as you can in Amex Rewards

Next Question, can a judge force you to move them out of AX Rewards

Or........

Q: How much are 500,000 miles worth??

A: Nothing according to the airlines, however according to how they make provisions on their books, approximately $300.


Or,

A: Well, you honour, I just gave them all to the make-a-wish foundation.

Or,

A: (To the attorney on the other side) Of course I'll give her $25,000 worth of tickets, should I take care of informing the IRS for you??

Lastly, in response to the above it could also be 12 economy tickets which recently went for $399 each (total value $4800), or if you want to go for the Concorde example, it would also be about $4800 as per the FT/Starwood deal.

This is why miles are a can of worms and why they are not reasonable "currency" in a divorce settlement.

Bzzt! The IRS doesn't care, because division of assets in divorce is tax-free. The man who takes legal advice from flyertalk has a fool for a lawyer. And no, I'm not a lawyer, but legal theory (as opposed to practice) tends to be remarkably close to common sense. If the state says that assets acquired during marriage are to be divided 50/50, they will be divided or properly valued and bought out.

If I were a judge, I'd let the two sides bid for a buyout of the other to establish the value of any asset, including FF miles. Simple, really. If one side wanted to claim they have no value, I'd agree and order them transferred to the other side with zero dollar credit to the donor of the miles. As you can see, I have a low tolerance for tricky and dishonest legalisms. (This *proves* that I'm not a lawyer.)

As to the original question, I think that the friend's lawyer should make a fair dollar offer to buy out the mileage, ideally including an offer to let the spouse buy *him* out on exactly the same terms. If the spouse turns the offer down, he has at least shown good faith and his value estimate is much more credible to the court.

The foregoing is common sense and is not legal advice. Some assembly required, batteries not included...

Lots of things that cannot actually be divided are considered in divorce settlements. It's not practical, for example, to slice a painting down the middle so each party gets half. That does not stop the painting from being treaated as an asset and considered in the settlement.

It is not always necessary to assign a monetary value to marital assets. The concept is to divide them into two piles until all parties - spouses, lawyer(s) and/or mediator as applicable, court - are OK with the split. Reducing things to monetary terms can simplify the process, since it provides a rational basis for weighing a painting against an automobile or a stock certificate, but isn't required.