Are top level elites less loyal?
 

Time and time again, I see posts here which effectively say;

"when I've reached super-duper elite on Airline A, I'll start flying on Airline B and get their premium elite plus"

It seems that reaching the top elite level is just a cue for some folks to take their loyalty elsewhere. Frequent flyer schemes are supposed to promote loyalty. What do you think? Should the airlines change the way they reward frequent flyers?

I don't think so. If I receive top level on a program, I won't switch. The reason is simple. As a top level elite, I have a much better chance of upgrading than in a program where I have no status. I would much rather sit up front than in the back of the bus.

Now, there have been times, when I have had to chose other airlines than the one where I have elite status because of better schedules or price. Especially in this economy. Our corporate travel agent is making sure we get the best price for the days and times I need to travel. I can't justify to my employer $1000 just to fly on a preferred airline.

I think Shareholder explored this question. Because there aren't many incremental benefits once you hit that top-level, some people may choose to spread out their remaining travel to other carriers to have flexibility and gain additional benefits.

I think I shall take that as a "yes" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif - what should the airlines do to prevent this loss of business though?

Sorry if this has been explored before - I didn't do any research - the thought just struck me.

Very loyal. I'm a "top level elite" because the program serves me well. And I know what the alternatives are.

I think those who switch to another programme after reaching super-duper elite in one are mostly those who fly enough to reach the super-duper level in more than one programme and who want to (re)qualify for both (all) programmes. There probably aren't very many who reach super-duper in one programme and then start spreading their travel so they get scattered miles but no status in a bunch of others.

Something the airlines could do to encourage "better loyalty" would be to do like KLM, i.e., whatever status miles you collect beyond what is needed for next year's qualification carry over to the following year. For example, 300k status miles qualify for 3 years' worth of 1K, EXP, etc.

I have been a ONE airline passenger to accumulate Elite level and concentrate miles for future use. But it has gotten harder as the airlines have been verged, and my travel patterns change. I have also moved several times in the last ten years using different home base airports.

Hate to think of moving to another airline FFer, but current events are suggesting it, once again!

The airlines used to have plateau bonuses- extra bonuses at set milestones of flight miles. These rewarded people for continuing to fly after their chosen status level was attained.

On AA the PLT bonus is 100%, and the EXP bonus is 100%, so from a mileage bonus perspective there's no reason to fly twice as many miles to hit EXP, let alone fly >100,000 miles when there's nothing left to aim for. From an upgrading/service perspective, however, EXP beats PLT by quite a bit, IMHO, and I'll fly AA whenever posssible.

Then again, Flyertalkers might be a tad outside the norm when it comes to the drive to earn status on multiple airlines http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by landspeed (edited 06-11-2002).]

Sarah, we've also been discussing this topic on this thread, although we are much more wordy on that one than here! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

FewMiles..

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If you look at the statistics, a majority of the people that participate in loyalty programs are not the super duper elite. they are lower to mid-tier elites that do for the most part keep to one program/airline/alliance. The super duper elite count for only what... 5% maybe (just guessing). But on the other hand... these 5% probaly contribute a lot more revenue.

This is all just my assumption on the whole mess. Am I even close? Is there such thing as a one handed economist? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

This coming from a mid-tier elite on two programs/airlines/alliances... I'll just shut up now!

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preez mine da pratform gahp.

Still loyal (to CO) after all these years.

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A gentleman always respects a lady's wishes.

Does that mean you con't fall off the CO wagon?

R&R, as long as they continue serving Jack Daniel's, I con't, I won't, fall off the CO wagon. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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A gentleman always respects a lady's wishes.

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 06-12-2002).]

IF I were in a situation where one airline and its alliance partners couldn't meet a good-sized fraction of my travel needs, and

IF I could be sure of reaching top-tier on my primary airline AND at least first-tier on a reasonable one for the rest of my flying,

THEN - and only then - would I suffer through the process of climbing the ladder with the second airline in addition to the primary one.

This is not emotional loyalty, though I confess that at times I feel that. This is based on the tangible benefits of status and the way I'm treated as top-tier.

I'm top in four programmes. The reasons being twofold: No airline or alliance fits my very hectic flying requirements, and there is no great advantage of staying with a carriera after getting the top level.

I requalified for Platinum on Continental last month and there is little reason to fly them anymore this year, at least internationally. All I will get is extra bonus miles which still won't get me to the front of the plane unless I pay an exorbitant fare. If they want me to fly more, give me more international upgrades. Otherwise they will not get the additional revenue.

[This message has been edited by Nevsky (edited 06-13-2002).]

I switched. I am a 6-year top level on Delta, but my employer's change in travel policy (or rather, making sure that the lowest fare clause was follwed) made me realize that DL's LUser upgrade policy was going to have me in the back of the bus for almost all my travel.

AA's MRTC has made a real difference! There is notably more legroom in coach and with a sweet offer from AA to give me mid-level tier from the beginning, the swith was easy, and I haven't regretted it a bit! I have now qualified by flying for the mid-level and I'm aiming for top level, but I may not reach it this year, bummer.

L-1011,

Welcome to AA! I made the same switch a few years ago and haven't regretted it. In my experience, the lowest AA fare PLUS the cost of purchased upgrade credits, if I have to buy them, has always been below Delta's least expensive upgradeable fare. (Granted, that is a function of my travel patterns and does not necessarily reflect anyone else's situation.)

"Simply good business" cost them DL business, plus that of several colleagues and family members who follow my choice of airlines.

And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

Well, it would be tough to reach top level elite in one airline, then get the top level elite in another in the same qualifiying year. You would have to do *lots* of flying.

I could not see myself jumping from AA plat. to United, jsut to get some status on United. Makes no sense. I would go for a long period with no status at all. That would mean long lines, crummy seats with no leg room, etc. Even then, I still woudl not have access to the United Red Carpet Lounge.

As a top level elite in Starwood, Hyatt & CO, I find I enjoy the 'perks/treatment' that comes with it and don't want to use some other program/property where I'm not treated as well.

That is the big difference between the great Starwood program and Continental Airlines--the Airline to Fly if you fly just one continent.

I am so much more likely to take that non-essential trip that involves staying at a Starwood as I know that I am very likely to get a great upgrade (and if not a lovely room), more points that I can use without blackout dates or capacity controls, and maybe even a Free Friday or Saturday. They have my continuing loyalty. About the only time I would stay somewhere else is if there were no Starwoods in the area or the rates were much higher than a comparable hotel in the area.

With Continental, however, the domestic upgrades are chancy (especially transContinental), and interContinental upgrade chances are just about nonexistent at anything but an exorbitant fare. The extra points that I get are hard to use. The Business First seats seem to be non-revs first over Platinum memebers internationally. My next trip is scheduled on American. I may not have status, but the fare was about 50% lower than on Continental. I know American wants my business and will give me a match or at least a challenge. Just not sure I want to take AAdvantage of it yet.

I just wish Continental would get the message. I have enjoyed flying them for so long.

The way this question is worded is self-canceling. To make top-level elite, requires loyalty. Therefore a top-level elite is quite obviously more loyal than a mid- or low-level elite. Do you mean once making top-level are elites more likely to head to another airline?

I disagree, letiole. A 100k flyer who flies exclusively with one airline is no more loyal than a 50k flyer who does the same thing. A 200k flyer who splits 100k/100k between two programs, on the other hand, is arguably less loyal than the 50k flyer who does it all on one program.

FewMiles..

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This is an interesting thread. I suspect mid-level frequent flyers are more loyal, as they are often aspiring to achieve the next level. In the AA program for example, Golds want to be Platinum, PLT want to be EXP.

Fewmiles wrote:
Hmmm ... interesting. Trying to follow the rationale here. So someone who only flies 5K a year, but always on the same carrier is also more loyal than the 200K who splits his loyalty? I guess by the strict definition of loyalty this is true. Somehow I think anyone who flies 100K on a single carrier in a year will consider himself loyal even if they fly another later on.

Obviously, it's pretty easy to be loyal the less one flies. I'm extremely loyal to my obstetrician - thank goodness I've only needed him once. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I jsut want some status. Some status is better than no status.

Lets say I have no status, and will fly 60,000 miles one year. I could alternate between AA and UA. Get low level status on both. But while I did that, I would experience a long stretch of time with no status. If I concentrate, I can get status quicker, then *enjoy* it for a longer period of time.

I fly just enough to get gold some years and platinum in others, and that's only if I line it up on the same airline or alliance (which I always do).

Comped status is very important for keeping airlines competitively in check. I comped over to CO at gold after DL did their LUser switch, and have been very glad I did.

I might comp out of CO, though, after four years because of a less favorable situation there now.

Still, I'll have to requalify for status on whatever airline I comp over to. I don't do it just to do it.

Those who fly enough to earn multiple gold or plat status if they spread out the earnings are such a coveted minority that I'd think the airlines would bend over backwards for them. But at that level it's almost entirely business travel (even more coveted)and there's usually a hub carrier in the person's hometown that has the big advantage.

Still, airlines like CO try to go after those with programs like Continental Select, where they award a large number of extra miles for a large number of flights.

Someone who flies 5000 miles a year may be more loyal, but no airline cares very much for them!!

Interesting (to me, anyhow) to see an airline acknowledge this:

From FT chat-
http://www.flyertalk.com/transcripts/111501.html
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Randy Petersen
Renee and Carol. Much has been made of extending elite level benefits to members of many programs brought about because of the rather slow year long economy problems and companies cutting back commercial travel. Is there any decision BA Executive Club has made in this area for 2002?

Carol Spano
We have extended tier memberships in the past. What we noticed was that the flying pattern of those members dropped off dramatically; some stopped altogether. The reason, they told us, was that they had no need to achieve Gold since they already had it, so they were looking to fly other carriers and achieve status in other programs. This does both us and our members a disservice... We do look at individual cases in which extenuating circumstances may have arisen and make decisions on a case-by-case basis where necessary. Thanks for your question.

Randy Petersen
I appreciate the answer because i had thought that was the case. Very well put, thanks for the honesty.
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I was extremely loyal up until this year when benefits in Air Canada's program were clawed back yet again.

I look for three things: value (not just price), destinations and service. All play pretty heavily in my decisions. Until 2001, AC had all those things and was at the top of the choices I had.

This year I am hedging my bets and going for top tier in LH Miles and More since AC Aeroplan has not/will not guarantee that there will be no further clawbacks of things that I consider important.

I would say I am extremely loyal but only if the airline reciprocates. I had opportunity last year to earn top status in two programs but stuck with Air Canada and tried to fly on Air Canada planes as much as possible. This year, with the downgrade of service and benefit clawback, I have been flying on whatever Star Alliance metal I want and it is somewhat liberating.

Since I attained EXP with AA, I have only flown AA except to destinations, e.g. ATL, not served by AA from a NYC-area airport.

I've been a top level elite with DL for 3 years so far, top level elite with US for 5 years and mid-level elite (Platinum) on AA for 6 years now. My loyalty is only to achieve highest level in two programs which offer reward travel to places my wife and I would like to go. Period. The leftover travel will go to the third program. I don't particularly care which program. AA may take over DL because of MRTC vs LUser fares, but since I'm a segment flyer, I probably will not get to EXP. I foresee having only one top and two mid-level airline statuses next year because of this. Since I am usually a short haul flyer, this doesn't really bother me.