To whom do I defect?
 

I am thinking about switching FF from NWA to one that might better meet my needs. I am a NWA Plat. this year and have been Gold for several and have 500,000 miles "in the bank". I really like the "unlimited" domestic upgrades, but would value a limited number of international upgrades from a reasonable fare, moreso. (The "final straw" was finding out I will have to pay $1400 plus the miles to upgrade an International fare that my friends will be able to get for $900, economy of course.)

Relevant factors:

1. I live in the midwest and usually fly out of AZO, SBN, FWA, TOL, LAN However I'm retired and limited schedules shouldn't be too much of a problem. I also drive to DTW, ORD or IND if the "deal" is right.

2. All my flying is leisure and I usually have a little "wiggle-room" on dates.

3. Obviously would like to find a program that would match my status with NWA for a year while I make the transition.

4. Since I "run" (rather ineptly sometimes), crazy routings appeal to me.

5. I LOVE NWA's 500 mile minimum per segment since I usually have one to get to the "big city".

6. Need a program which has a credit card option too. If I'm going to defect, I might as well go "whole hog".

All advice welcomed. If I need to tell you any more, let me know. Thanks in advance.

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Northwest "old Gold" and current Platinum.

What destinations do you normally fly to? Do you fly internationally -- if so, to Europe? Asia?

Are you looking for any-fare upgrade policies? Or are you more interested in award travel?

AA and UA seem to be both suitable for your needs. AA has a minimum of 500 points per segment and it also has Citibank CC linked to its program. On AA you can also easily achieve status through their Gold & Platinum Challenges plus AA has More Room Throughout Coach.

As a sideline...

Remember, by switching and losing your, currently downgraded status, will leave you without status in the next measuring period and that will further degrade what you can get from your accumulated "banked" miles.

You might want to consider this as part of your analysis. Pick a "partner", if one available? Use up your current mileage for a trip, if you plat. level helps you any.

Remember, I fear retaliation in saying, all the airlnes are the same when it comes to ticking someone off eventurally. Todays too pricy, too poor a service, fails to respond, etc, is next times best. The grass is often greaner "in some seasons" somewhere else.

My comments:

1) All major US airlines have the 500 mile minimum for a flight, that's not an issue in where you'll switch.

2) All major US airlines have a credit card partner, that's not much of an issue except in as much as one card is superior to others in some cases. (i.e., you can earn base miles on the Platinum DL AMEX card if you charge $25k + per year).

Your primary concern seems to be upgrading internationally on decent priced tickets. To do that, you've got a few options.

1) AA ~ You can upgrade all published fares internationally with miles. If you get Executive Platinum (100k miles/year) you'll also get 8 (I think that's the right number) VIPOW's that allow you to upgrade a trip one way (up to three segments I think) on any published fare. This is probably the best program for international upgrades. The downside is you only get 4 500-mile upgrades every 10k miles flown, much less than unlimited obviously.

2) UA ~ If you can get to 1k (100k miles/year), you'll get 6 SWU's each year good on any non E-fare one-way internationally. (Note: there has been a lot of trouble with the new ones concerning "internet" fares being excluded, but that seems to be getting fixed and now appears to only mean Efares). For mileage upgrades though, you're limited to higher fares like on NW, so if you don't make 1K or take more than 3 R/T's internationally per year, you're out of luck. Same problem with UA as on AA on domestic upgrades also, much more limited.

I think those two are your best bets, and I'd go with AA over UA personally ... but it depends on their service to the airports you mentioned, which I am really not familar with.

I am going to play the devil's advocate here and go against the flow. Stick with NW Platinum because out of the above mentioned airports and being retired and all, any other carrier will put you up in RJs or God forbid- SAAB twin props! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

NW has a good partnership with KL and you can use your miles for RTW itineraries and all. Besides, look at your alternatives, if coming from unlimited standby upgrades, CO will not pay much attention to you and you will get less upgrades and always go through the EWRIAHCLE triangle. Plus they a much worse policy on international ugprade fares. DL, ha!, don't get me started there about upgrades and in the Midwest, you will have to put up with a lot of ComAir.

Among the choices left, AA and UA seem reasonable but if you are looking at 1K flying in and out of Chicago, forget about upgrades or preferred benefits!

AA is better as mentioned before but with exception of matching sale fares, their average prices are much higher than NW. Plus, either AA or UA has more direct flights and less routing possibilities.

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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

This is very helpful, gang. Keep it up!!! If this helps---my #1 priority is using my miles for International "any (read "cheaper" fare." I rarely use miles for a straight out Award Ticket.

I spend part of just about every trip now on a "baby plane" with Masaba.

Probably will do at least three International trips in 2003...short list: Vietnam, Dublin, Budapest, Vienna, Venice, London, Bangkok, maybe Australia (Cairns).

I'll never make the 100,000 status mile target in one year. I will probably do 50,000 without trouble and maybe 75,000. I'm assuming here that UA and AA "count" as does NWA...the old fashioned "butt in the seat" miles with the odd promotion that might help get status miles.

Does that change anything? Thanks again.

I fly with AA and have had really good luck using mileage upgrades internationally. As stated above, they allow upgrades on any fare, and that is a big plus for me. I wouldn't fly an airline that tried to upsell people into higher fare classes to use upgrades.

Of course you're not going to get free upgrades domestically. Personally, I think it's a good tradeoff. Domestic first class isn't nearly as good as international business, and it isn't as important either because the flights are usually shorter. On longer flights I'll upgrade with my stickers, on shorter flights I'm fine with AA's MRTC.

But I'd rather sit in coach on a 3 hour domestic flight and be able to upgrade on a 10 hour international flight, versus sit in FC domestically but coach internationally. Furthermore, at least with AA, upgrades to business can use international arrivals lounges, which worked out really well for me 2 weeks ago at CDG.

d

Doppy,
That is a nice analysis. I've been going over my options to NW, and trying to decide which (greener grass) program I want to land.
One question though: Does AA allow you to upgrade (cheapo fares) using miles when flying OneWorld partners? Or only on AA metal?

Even though you'll get less domestic upgrades, between a fair bit of international travel and short hops in jungle jets and other commuter planes, that probably won't be much of a problem for you (since they are *domestic* upgrades).

Given your preference for upgrades on any fare, there's only one answer ... AA. Of course they won't get you directly to the destinations you desire, but they can get you close, then pick up another OneWorld carrier. For instance, for Australia/Asia, one strategy would be to fly AA over the Pacific then cash in miles for an award on CX to your final destination in Biz/First ... the best of both worlds. If you're only shooting for the 50k tier, that really won't hurt you too much in earnings anyway ...

NW serves more cities in Asia and connects well for European cities. I look forward to the domestic upgrades, and use miles for international upgrades, while accumulating status and miles on the international coach tickets.

Seems most flyers have forgotten the disasterous Summer 2 years ago with AA and UA. Times change and so do flying habits or patterns. Some just get bored with an airline and look for another. I still miss the upgrades and service on Western Airlines, but it is history.
In the meantime, will stick with CO and NW until things evolve more in another direction. It appears, every airline and it's FregFlyer club has ups and downs. Am very impressed with the AA reservations phone staff. Everyone seems to be well versed in their products.

lstoner,

Though I am not retired, I am in the same boat as you - looking for the opportunity to upgrade internationally without having to pay even more than the hard-earned miles or certificates already to be given up to do so.

This is exactly why I gave CO (and effectively NW, since as partners their FF programs are nearly identical) the boot, enjoying my comped 1K status on UA and in fact having just delighted on ORD-HKG last week in business class on a 747 using a SWU for the same price I'd have paid to sit in 30 cramped pitch-inches on CO. (Here's a taste of the loyalty you engendered in this Platinum Elite, you asses in Houston!)

Since I do a lot of travel involving Asia, UA and its participation in the Star Alliance suit me fine. Neither AA nor any of its OneWorld partners serve my primary airport, and I just can't justify driving an additional 45 minutes sitting in traffic jams and, not to mention, higher fares, to do AA/OneWorld.

Moreover, at the very worst I will find myself in Economy+ on UA, which suits me perfectly fine. Also, I have found UA's culture to be a lot more professional, more informed, and down-to-business than NW/CO, as well, not the least by way of noting that the demeanor of UA flight attendants even in coach are generally more cheerful, attentive, and talkative, while on NW/CO you're doted on in World Business Class/BusinessFirst, but more often than not you won't even get eye contact or a smile in coach. (Note to airline management: Hey - don't you guys know that millionaire business owners fly coach, too, especially on Asian flights? Don't look down on coach pax just cause they're in coach - you are very well alienating an entire high-yield market segment even before you realize it's there).

With the way domestic first these days on NW/CO is more cramped than the coach cabin on the same flight following the spate of comping Elite status just for breathing (CO is great at this), Economy+ is mighty fine as right off the bat you'll have the seat next to you blocked off if available when making seat reservations. Just try to ask NW/CO to block off an adjacent seat for you; you'll get the "that seat's already taken," which is airlinese for "NO."

Say it loud, say it proud: There is life after CO/NW, "Winner of the Best Elite Program Freddie Seven Years Straight." Who cares what awards an airline wears if its benefits don't work for you? The "unlimited complimentary domestic first class upgrades," which have been the hallmark of the NW/CO programs, are either just not there anymore, or are a journey in themselves just to obtain. Just look up "EUA" in the NW/CO threads...

On a final note, UA will meet all of your criteria, including comping status and a credit card, concerning which you would do well to look into the MBNA-Amtrak GuestRewards MasterCard. This is an annual fee-free card that allows you to accure points in the Amtrak Guest Rewards program which in turn can be converted in 5000-mile blocks into UA miles (among partner rewards).

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 05-09-2002).]

The one drawback is that you can't upgrade flights on other carriers. So if you want to upgrade you have to take AA as close as you can get, then transfer to another carrier and fly economy.

d

The other option is to look at it from the "reverse angle". If you will fly internationally with one foreign carrier, you might consider joining their FFP, and use the alliance with a US carrier for mile accumulation, assuming that you want upgrades for international travel.

Worked for me, in any case.

What's the best approach to the new airline to match my NWA status...e-mail, phone (whom), snail mail? I assume the best window is right around Christmas (to be effective 1-1-2003) or are things too crazy then? NWA's status runs through Feb. I believe. Can one airline access the records of another..i.e. I assume I will I have to "prove" to the new carrier that I am current Plat. with NWA. Haven't decided to do it yet, but am learning lots from your answers. Seems like AA might be best, but I still have an open mind. Thanks!