QF looking to kill/limit Concorde awards?
 

Im not sure there is a thread dedicated solely to this issue, Ive read bits and pieces of info. related to this in various other threads so I decided that the topic is HOT enough to merit its own thread. I hope the moderators dont object to my choice of forum, if so, please boot it to its place.

There seems to be a sense that QF and BA have noticed the increased demand of Concorde awards. Im wondering if anybody has some inside info. or has experienced any new/additional difficulties in booking these awards.

I have some other QF specific questions that I will post in the QF forum. Thanks.




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Gaucho100K

I believe you made the right call on which forum this belongs in since we're talking about cross transfer program things here. We'll see. I had heard that the load factor wasn't back to snuff for that flight yet so there is that window to really use the awards. While I know you might be referring to the IF>*wood>QF>BA move, i would doubt it rates as high an attraction as another very popular award period which will start soon and that is when Diners does their 2-for-1 promotion into BA. I know that many of those redmeption miles do go toward the Concorde since with that redemption it is the same as a biz class seat, only flying Concorde. Since that promo starts in just a few weeks, my guess is that this all blends together and there really isn't an identifiable problem related just to this promotion - though I'd do my work now rather than later to secure the seats I would want. From the numbers I am aware of, the Diners to BA is easily 75 times the results of the IF>*wood. Still, I'm as interested as anyone about problems with awards and conversions.

We just redeemed a Concorde award both ways for late May, and changed dates already to early June. Did both awards via the Qantas reservations folks in Sydney. On both phone calls there was comment made that these were very popular "all of a sudden." One girl mentioned "the brass were looking into it" or words to that effect as to whether a standard BA First Class award would in future also be able to include Concorde, or whether a seperate award might need be set up.

Remember this was from a QANTAS viewpoint, as they are the ONLY economical place the Inside Flyer>Starwood>Qantas awards can be redeemed - 125,000 miles r/t. Whether Qantas *pays* BA more when I redeem a Concorde r/t flight versus a trans-atlantic 747 First seat I have no knowledge. Someone here might? If no 'cost' difference there will probably be no change, but if higher cost to QF, a quick rule change or zeroing out "Z" class inventory is just a keystroke away.

As Randy says the double Diners Club transer gives them BA "owned" inventory to redeem from and they own the planes and can be far more liberal with their own allocation and use than a partner - even a very close one - I guess? Availability even for us before the FT and Diners floodgates was patchy, and we needed to fit in with what they offered. Right now there is only one flight a day, but I read that 2 a day is due for Summer so that may free up seats?

And Randy hit the nail on the head mentioning that Concorde loads have not been high even on 1 flight a day since their return to the air. So maybe BA loves the higher than usual award bookings to see program points getting chewed up in big dollops on a service that otherwise flies half empty many days? No souvenier gifts at all to any pax these days I have read. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

It is a very opportune window of opportunity right now, and we are grateful to QF and BA for leaving that window open. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Finally if you BOOK the award with QF they told us the award will stay locked in for 12 months, no matter what rule change they may later make. A date change is only 2500 miles to a non elite, and a total flight cancel is only 5000 penalty, so the downside is small if you lock it in NOW. From about August onward interior revamps - new loos etc are coming onstream if you have a date choice.

Does BA currently allow 125,000 mile Concorde awards? Or is it only QF? The BA web site doesnt' have much info for non-members. If I can get a Concorde award for 125k, then I'll just transfer my DC points over.

I did not buy any subscriptions, but have the points posted already? They are probably reacting to a bunch of Yanks calling them up with the same question.

The answer is yes and ironically, you may also do that in conjunction with a Qantas award if you so desire.

Thanks for the reply. But can you clarify if you meant "yes" to my first question (does BA allow Concorde awards w/ BA miles) or my second question (is it only QF that allows this reward)? Sorry for the initial ambiguity in my question.

If you raise this topic often enough they will kill it sooner or later.

If you found something great, don't cry out loud!

BA Executive Club UK allows Concorde redemption for 4 times cattle class. Therefore, NYK requires 160K points (less 10% for online points redemption).

Gaucho yhm

[This message has been edited by Canista (edited 05-10-2002).]

Forgive me, but.... isnt that exactly what this board is all about?


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Gaucho100K

Anyway, even if the category for Concorde is changed (which it probably won't), there is still the first class seat redemption at 125K, which is still very good value, and, IMHO, worth the $$ for IF>*wood>Qantas.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
[B] Forgive me, but.... isnt that exactly what this board is all about?

Of course FlyerTalk is about distributing good news. But bringing up bad (and hopefully wrong!) rumors again and again doesn't really help anybody...

P.s.: How about sending some emails to Qantas and asking them if they really want to kill the Concorde award?
Just kidding of course, DON'T do it!

BA allows you to fly JFK-LHR RT in Concorde for 125,000 BA miles.

https://www.britishairways.com/execc...ok.pdf&x=5&y=2

Once in the page, you need to scroll down to page 31 and you also need an adobe reader since the document is in pdf.

You may also fly Concorde one way and Economy in the other direction for 95,000 miles or in Club World for 110,000 miles.

Then, on page 38, you will see that QF/BA joint award will allow you to include Concorde when flying BA accross the Atlantics and onward travel worldwide in BA and/or QF First where offered for 175,000 BA miles. Of course, this is BA Executive Club North America. For all other countries, including the U.K, rules are different and generally, not as generous.

In my opinion, BA's EC in North America is an excellent program for those frequent flyers in First and Business class. BA awards are quite generous and flexible. For example, you can fly

1) JFK-LHR (Stopover in London [Europe]) on BA First
2) LHR-SYD (Destination[Oceania]) on BA First
3) AKL-HKG (Stopover in Hong Kong [Asia]) on Cathay First
4) HKG-JFK (home) on Cathay First

for only 150,000 BA miles. Last year, this award only cost 140,000 miles and was definitely a steal that BA realized and increased the needed mileage by 10K. This is a by default RTW in First Class on two very good carriers by visiting Europe, Oceania and Asia in one single trip from North America is hard to beat thanks to BA's generous stopover rules.

No wonder BA's EC is my second largest account of choice despite the fact I don't live in the UK.

Big warning for anyone booking the Concorde, try and avoid a *STAY* in Britain unless you really need one. Britain regards a legal "stopover" as one that exceeds 24 hours. Concorde departs LHR for JFK at 10.30am. Taxes per person on these tickets were $A94.40 as we cunningly gave ourselves 23.15 hours sleep/party time at Sheraton Skyline at LHR, which we plan to book on priceline for $US50 or so a night both directions.

Had our 'stay' in Britain exceeded 24 hours the taxes were $A361.60 a person. So, by arranging a short transit and hotel sleep each direction we saved $A534.40 or about $US280 in taxes alone on the exact same flights! The point 'cost' using QF points to fly JFK-LHR is the same as JFK-LHR-to anywhere else close in Europe that BA flies, and thus cuts a huge sum off taxes. (And takes you somewhere more interesting than London to boot!)

No idea if taxes are higher on Concorde (?) and assume these costs apply on any legal 'stay' in GB, and strike me as outrageous. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

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~ Glen ~

On what basis are you saying this? I though I was being accused of spreading heresay... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif Also, what is your definition of 'bad' rumours? Bad for who exactly..?

The idea here is NOT to spread rumours of anykind, its to let people that are considering doing this Concorde thing to be aware of facts that may affect their chances of getting seats of the SST.

Im up to my ears with all this "hush hush" attitude about this Concorde thing... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif




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Gaucho100K

If this sort of comment encourages more FTers to book Concorde flights on QF points in fear of the award being restricted or removed in future, it might become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This type of post is really totally counter-productive. If there is some chance QF might react to the increase in Concorde awards negatively, then trying to stir up FTers to make even more Concorde redemptions helps how?

If Ansett were still around, I'd have been able to let my Qantas points get up to the Concorde level and still get my domestic trips for free. As there's no Ansett any more, I've been using up Qantas points locally. I just hope that a few years down the track, when I have built my Qantas points up again, the Concorde award is still available and wasn't destroyed by the April/May 2002 Flyertalk stampede.

Well, I did a mileage run in January NYC-DFW-LON-RDU-NYC.

Said run was completed in about 30 hours. I stay 2 or 3 hours in the London Airport.

However, I paid the same tax that would be collected on a muti day stay.

I did not get any break on U.S./ U.K Taxes.

The basis of a lot of taxes appears to have changed post-Sept 11th. For example in HKG if you arrive at 10.55pm and leave at 1am you pay the HKG departure tax whereas if you leave at 11.59pm you avoid it.

On my forthcoming *A RTW ticket, the taxes on a ticket cost of ZAR46580 were ZAR11734, nearly 25% of the base price which is high as most of them are same day back and forth flights. Apprently these each now attract the segment security fee - eventhough you use security only once!

Re tax, the QF girl worked it out both ways for me whilst on the phone. She was very definite, as I was writing it all down. I guess a dummy booking on an airline website will confirm this one way or the other? AMS-LHR-JFK-LHR-AMS.

Those here who are transitting LHR on the 55,555 Star Alliance points hunt on 5 carriers are mindful of this reality. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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~ Glen ~

Also on UK taxes it has been posted here before that Biz and First pax pay much higher tax rate than coach on same carrier, same flight. No idea if that is correct, but nothing would surprise me these days. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

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~ Glen ~

This is incorrect. Where these is more than one class on a plane, then the lowest class pays a lower tax than any of the other classes. As Concorde is only a one class plane, seat attract the lower rate of tax only.

ozzie - with respect, I think you will find that the above is VERY correct. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

It is correct that Bus / First pay more tax on a multiple class plane - I agree. BUT as Concorde is a single class plane, the lower level of tax applies. It wouldn't surprise me if the QF award peoiple have been getting this wrong as it is being booked as a First Class award.

So would the remedy for this situation be to book the reward directly with QF in London? Everyone that I have heard from on here has been paying the higher tax rate.

Additionally, if the arriving flight is Concorde, with a stopover, onward in Club Europe, but the return is Club Europe, standard connection, onward in BA First, which tax level applies?

Ozstamps: Who did you speak with regarding the locking-in of the award for 12 months? My friends and I are looking to redeem for April/May 2003, but cannot commit to specific dates yet. If we choose dates, then need to change later, is QF saying they will still honor the tickets for 12 months from issue date?

[This message has been edited by RChavez (edited 05-15-2002).]

[This message has been edited by RChavez (edited 05-15-2002).]

Here is something that might have an impact on award inventory:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/001927.html

"Additional Benefits :

Pre seating allowed (subject to pre-seating limit not being reached at time of booking)
Lounge access is permitted"

Wow, I buy a return ticket for the Concorde and they actually let me into the Concorde Lounge??? British Airways is insane...they even assign seats now upon booking! How generous, especially considered that it is only a cheap 5000$ ticket!!!

Setjet, as you see in the post the pre-seating and lounge remarks are extra information belonging to the fareclass, it's just some extra information. As you know there are plenty of fares that have all kinds of restrictions, this information just points out that it's a regular ticket without any lack in service, the price is a lot lower than the regular price.

I know I know. But isn't it pretty obvious that when you have a Concorde ticket that you can actually go into the Concorde lounge? Heck, they even give you the standard food and service on the plane and don't ask for the ticket to see if you deserve the caviar. This is what makes a "special sale" a "special sale".
Or did you ever hear about a special First Class sale where you can actually sit in First, but you get Economy food, no refill, you have to pay for the headset and they encourage you to bring your own food because they might run out of choices?

By the way, seat assignment is also standard with C and F tickets.

I am just wondering why BA has to point out pretty standard things!

I get your point but comparing miles and lounge access with inflight service doesn't make sense.

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of fares that don't allow miles to be earned so mentioning this is common sense in a note clearly aimed at TA's, I know about the concorde lounge but a non regular traveler will not.

The UK APD (Air passenger Duty - see, that makes it simple, its a duty not a tax http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif) are a bit of a minefield, and I have to say, I don't completely understand them, but here goes:

Outbound flights:
Class of arrival is irrelevant, the tiered APD is on departures only. You will pay the same taxes/charges on arrival with Concorde, as you would with any other flight.

Your onward connection in Club Europe will, however, matter. Since you are sitting in a premium cabin (which is defined as any seperate cabin that is not the lowest class) you will be subject to the higher APD. If you are going to the EU, this is GBP 10, if you are not, this is GBP 40. Note that, say, Switzerland is not part of the EU!

Inbound Flights:

Again, the class of travel you arrive on is irrelevant, so we won't worry about it.

If your flight in First is classed as a connection for the purposes of APD, then you pay nothing, effectively, your journey hasn't really stopped in the UK. However, the rules for deciding if you have stopped over are different from the air-ticketing rules, and seem to have been written by someone who had English as a second language (and bulls**t as the primary one). I have a feeling that the airlines aren't too good at interpreting these rules either, so YMMV.

If you are classed as taking an independent flight departing the UK in F, then the APD of GBP 40 will apply, again.

Interestingly, the UK authorities seem to have noticed that there are Upgrades, and are issuing a "briefing document", so BOHICA!*

If you fancy trying to understand these rules, they're here. Good luck!

Key points are:
If you're flying on Concorde in one direction only, you can minimise your APD by making sure that you stop-over before a Concorde departure from the UK (GBP 30 saving - on a Concorde ticket, cheapskate http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

Flying short-haul to non-EU destinations in Club is painful! GBP 40 !!

Of course this is a legitimate dual-rate duty, not a cynical attempt by the UK govornment to exploit what it thinks is a "price insensitive market" - stop laughing at the back there!

Ken.

* BOHICA - "Bend Over, Here It Comes Again"!