Best FF Program for upgrades from SEA ??
 

I could use some experienced input please. I'm a newbie to this forum.

I've recently moved from the Northeast to the NorthWest, and have taken a job where I will once again, be traveling 100K or more a year. I had my favorite FF Programs from back east, but now need to pick a new one to concentrate on because of the different starting point(SEA) in my travel patterns.

What I'm after is the best upgrade success percentages & bennies, and the coach seating comforts while I'm getting to the elite status levels (again). I have more than 1,000,000 miles stashed away from prior road warrior days, and accruing miles isn't a priority.

Anticipated destinations are pretty much anywhere US (major cities), with an occasional jaunt to Europe.

My poking around indicates that...

1. Alaska looks interesting, because of the AA and NW partner accruals towards status, but partner flights accrue at a diminished %. They also list the most clubroom partners.

2. American looks promising, but I have no experience with their elite levels.

3. United with their E+ looks good, but my experience with them is that until you reach platinum, plan on spending all your time in coach.

4. CO (my prior favorite back east)has limited coverage out here, so they're out.

Any advise and input would be greatly appreciated.

CO doesn't have coverage out here? Good to know since I fly them all the time from SEA. When you want to make a post that doesn't contain biased assumptions let me know and I'll help you out. Otherwise have fun flying AA and United.

I'm not sure why you think partner flights accrue at a diminished level on AS. NW , AA, and DL all accrue at 100% for EQM, plus whatever elite bonus you are entitled to. Only CO (of the domestic partners) doesn't give you EQM or bonus miles, just straight 100% miles.

You might want to check your facts again.

http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileagep...rs_Airline.asp

OK - some clarity
 

Flights on Alaska partners do accrue at 100% for the partners listed. However, you need more of them to make the elite levels. For example, it's 25K for MVP, and then with partner fights it's 30k.

When you look at your account on-line it breaks it down for you by showing you your next milestones by Alaska Flight miles needed, and then by partner miles needed.

For example:

YTD Alaska/Horizon Miles
Miles Flown: XX,514 XX,486 Miles to MVP Gold

YTD Alaska/Horizon/Qualifying Partner Miles
Miles Flown: XX,473 XX,527 Miles to MVP Gold

YTD Alaska/Horizon/Qualifying Partner* Segments
Segments Flown: XX XX Segments to MVP Gold

As for COntinental, you are correct getting here from other places is fine, but the only flights out of SEA seem to be to their hubs Houston or Newark. If you want to check, then ask for a flight between SEA and SFO or ORD. All the choices come back going either through Newark or Houston. Great for running up the mileage tab, but I don't think my boss'll like that very much. Honest, I;d love to stick with them,. but that's a bit impractical

So I have done some homework, and really aren't that biased.

Suggestion: if you know what destinations you will be going to and how frequently you will go to each one and what kind of schedules you will be going to them on, do some flight shopping to get an idea of which airlines have the best service from SEA for those trips in terms of schedule convenience and such factors.

Then plug the trips into the frequent flyer programs you are considering, to see which one will give the best status and awards that you consider to be desirable.

I like AS' program, but from an award, not status, standpoint. Lots of partners to collect mileage on (AA, CO, DL, NW), and lower mileage threshholds for award flights on AS planes than other carriers (20,000 vs. 25,000 for a US domestic economy ticket, for example). Plus award flights are easy to find. But you'll have to ask others about AS' status usefulness.

"As for COntinental, you are correct getting here from other places is fine, but the only flights out of SEA seem to be to their hubs Houston or Newark. If you want to check, then ask for a flight between SEA and SFO or ORD. All the choices come back going either through Newark or Houston. Great for running up the mileage tab, but I don't think my boss'll like that very much. Honest, I;d love to stick with them,. but that's a bit impractical

So I have done some homework, and really aren't that biased."

That might be the case. Flying to many east coast cities you'll find yourself connecting. Quite frankly connecting out of IAH is going to be no better/worse than connecting out of Dallas for AA and will be better than connecting in ORD for United. Generally, employers want you to book a reasonable priced ticket. They don't usually ask how long it takes. The EWR route has good upgrade percentages and plenty of flights.

That said, you're also ignoring the fact that you can book NW, DL and AS on CO. That gives you the choice of 4 carriers going out of SEA to choose from. Good luck on getting AA or UA to match that. You'll also get opp upgraded on NW and CO and you already have CO status so you won't have to wait. Of course, all of that is probably too inconvenient.

Please also keep in mind that UA and AA really don't value their domestic travllers a lot. Both upgrade you very little. AA has an automatic program similar to NW, but only if you're platinum. UA will upgrade its global services and then mostly sell their upgrades. You'll get upgrade certs for them, but you often won't be able to use them on the flights you want. That is, you might not really care to be upgraded at 7am monday morning, but a nice nap at 6pm on Friday would be great. I usually ended up having them expire. Both of these companies also charge you FULL BAR PRICE + tips for drinks in their lounges. They also make you pay for wireless access. So you pay them ~$350 for the right to get into the place to pay them another ~$20 to have a beer and get online.

Your best choice is either stick with CO or change to NW. The latter has a better program (as an NW elite flying NW you get upgraded a LOT). You even get a chance to be upgraded when flying on a points ticket. Being a member of either lounge lets you go in any CO/NW/DL lounge and you can go in the nice AS lounges while you fly on them.

AS is even better in this respect, allowing mileage collection from flights from any of these four plus AA.

Not exactly true for AA. AA Executive Platinum elites get free upgrades on domestic flights. AA Gold and Platinum elites earn 500-mile electronic upgrade "stickers" or can purchase them. As an AA Platinum, I get upgraded (using said stickers) about 80 percent of the time from SEA-DFW or SEA-ORD.

My company (based in SEA) prefers I fly UA and because I am Premiere I have had no trouble securing seats in E+ in or out of SEA.

Safe travels!

Sounds like you're the one who's biased. United doesn't give complimentary upgrades to GS members, and it's supported upgrade system has allowed me to upgrade 90% of my flights this year. The CR-1s and 500s I earn from my international trips has given me more then enough upgrades to use on my domestic flying. With two west-coast UA hubs, the OP would be much better off going with United. Especially if he does any international flying at all - much easier to upgrade internationally on United then CO.

However, UA's west coast hubs are not the greatest. SFO has frequent delays when fog shuts down one of the runways, and LAX' terminals are not all connected behind security.

You're going to need to look carefully at where exactly you're going, and how often. You'll also need to decide if you care about things like international upgrades. You may also wish to look at the financial health of your carriers.

I fly out of SEA, and I was more or less in your position a year ago. I chose AA because a) they had a plat challenge that could get me status fast, b) they seemed to serve international routings well, and I like that EXPs could get upgraded. AA seems to quite often have fire sales on SEA-east coast routings, which I really enjoy. But my situation is slightly different in that I live for travel of all sorts to all places, and I do it on my own dime.

AS has a very nice program, at least on paper. I recently got comped to MVP Gold on the basis of my AA flight record. One killer perk of AS's program is the ability to make free changes to purchased restricted tickets. I used this feature last night without a problem for an upcoming trip. The only open question about Alaska's program is whether the competition for seats will deny you upgrades. AS's elite thresholds are relatively low, and you may find yourself competing with more folks for free open seats. On AA, if you're EXP or even just PLT, there often aren't too many pople who can "beat" you to the upgrade. My upgrade record as a PLT was exceptionally good; as EXP I expect it will be even better (just crossed over.)

Nutshell: if you think you'll be flying mostly domestic and AS can take you those places, and your due diligence suggests good upgrade potential, give AS a go.

If you care a lot about international upgrades and/or certain cheap east coast routes, AA may be a better bet.

For myself, I've made both AA EXP and AS MVP Gold, and I will be trying to matain status in both programs. We'll see. ;)

-KF

I live in Seattle and this year I will make 1P on UA and MVPG on AS again. I go to NY, SFO, LAS, LAX& BUR, and PHL mostly and the AS schedule is very nice. All nonstops and instant upgrade on most west coast flights. Getting upgraded on a long=haul flight on AS is harder.

UA is nice to handle the international flights and get the *A credit. Their first is nicer and once you make 1P the upgrades are nice. BUT, you always have to connect through somewhere, which doubles your chance of a delay and can mean on avg it could take you twice as long to reach the east coast as a comparable AS flight.

I see a lot of people go the AA route. That makes sense to me, but I haven't done the research myself.

I have been debating whether I should try to qualify on both again next year or try and get 1K on united. still tbd.

"Sounds like you're the one who's biased. United doesn't give complimentary upgrades to GS members, and it's supported upgrade system has allowed me to upgrade 90% of my flights this year. The CR-1s and 500s I earn from my international trips has given me more then enough upgrades to use on my domestic flying. With two west-coast UA hubs, the OP would be much better off going with United. Especially if he does any international flying at all - much easier to upgrade internationally on United then CO."

Of course I'm biased. I flew on that airline for years. I was Premier Executive on UA for 3 years. The latter part of one was in Seattle. The upgrades that you're talking about are coming from a mass amount of overseas travel. The OP is looking at doing west to east coast domestic. Try flying UA just inside of the country and you'll see that the upgrades are garbage. I've flown many a night on UA sitting in coach looking up at the open seats in business class. On CO/NW, you know that when you're flying domestically (as the OP will be doing), the airline is doing what it can to take care of you. When I fly in the back now, I know that the airline I'm flying is doing what it can. I might still be in back, but I know that is because people with more status or a higher fare are sitting up front and there aren't empty seats up there. That's a far cry from UA. The OP will get nothing like 90% upgrades domestically. I was PE and most of mine would end up expiring. When you elect to use the certificates, there is no guarantee of them being able to be used.

There is also the issue of partners. I wonder how the OP will like being limited to UA or US Air. That limits options flying out of SEA vs the CO/NW/DL/AS partnership. With UA, you also have the distinct joy of flying through hubs like SFO and ORD. Both, especially the latter, are known for delays. The biggest improvement in my travel experience has been avoiding ORD. I've been stuck at that airport overnight on at least 1/2 dozen times.

The UA lounges are also terrible. Even the international ones only give you a few drinks. CO/NW/DL/AS all have free drinks and almost all have free wireless. The AS lounge in SEA in particular is quite nice. Both NW and CO also have lounges there. When I had an RCC membership, I stopped even going in to the UA lounge. I didn't see the point.

UA might be a great option for someone who does a ton of international travel, but for anyone flying domestic they aren't.

The best solution out of SEA is either CO/NW for the upgrades on both and the ability to get miles from AS/DL flights or AS for the ability to get upgraded on its flights and get miles from CO/NW/DL/AA flights.

in spite of his mean-spirited attitude, the general is probably correct about UA being a poor choice from SEA. In addition to SFO and ORD being hairy, the United gates at SEA are all in the furthest concourses.

I've recently moved from AS to AA and couldn't be happier (unless of course they reopened the Admirals Club in Concourse A). For choices of flights and number of partners, AS is likely your best bet. The downside is that EVERYONE and their dogs are elite in Seattle so there's always someone with better status. With relatively poor status, I seem to do pretty well pretty consistently with AA. But again, as others have mentioned, it really comes down to where you're trying to go.

With regards to IAH vs DFW, I'd take DFW in a hearbeat anytime. Their Skytrain (or whatever they call it) makes traveling from terminal to terminal a snap - all behind security.

I watched my father-in-law get laid off as an Alaska ramp worker last year and have decided to take my business elsewhere when I can. But because AA and AS codeshare the West coast from SEA, I still end up flying them, albeit less frequently.

Wow
 

Great (and often enthusiastic) feedback and advice.

I'm coming to the conclusion that like I may have to split up between 2 programs. AS will probably be one of them, but I may use them for west coast travel, and the occasional overpacked and overbooked flight to EWR. I'm close to MVP Gold, and might make it.

2 or 3x monthly trips to the east coast or beyond should let me rack up points on another airline. And it looks like it's between AA, NW and perhaps UA (as a third place option).

AA would give me coverage on airports that AS doesn't have, and I can't help but think that AA gives upgrades to it's own folks before looking at it's partner Elitess so MVP Gold may not help me. The gates are closer, etc. Upgrade certs are cheaper. But that Q & O footnote on their status points chart looks potentially annoying.

NW might be a candidate to replace my CO favorite from back east. Like AA, it's relationship with AS helps.

UA, however has that E+ (that you can purchase access to) & that might make it easier when I have to be behind the curtain. I was a 1K for about 3 years, but I still remember those days of their scheduling issues. I HATE US Scareways. They have exhibited extremely aberrant behavior in my direction when I was in their Chairmans club. and that is a biased opinion. Thanks to the general for reminding me of that.

I'm looking at schedules between these two to destinations I know I'll be hitting like New Orleans, Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Heathrow, Schipol etc. That might help tip the scales for me.

Thanks for all the great input, and please the more first hand accounts I can review the more informed I can be.

I figure in another week or so I'll be booking for '07. I'll be sure to post what I decided on given the emotions this invoked.

As as Mr. Letterman says. "Please, no wagering"

If you go with two FF programs (with one of them being AS), then it would seem that you are looking at one or both of the following strategies:

a. The second one is just to collect miles from flights where AS and its many partners do not have a reasonable flight choice. In this case, the only reasonable choice if you are flying mostly US domestic is a Star Alliance carrier like UA (or US or AC), since AA, CO, NW, and DL are already covered by AS' partnerships. (This is ignoring the FF isolates like WN, B6, F9, FL, etc. which you might as well open accounts with if you end up flying them, but do not factor into the decision you are asking about.)

b. You expect to be able to gain the desired level of status on AS and another airline, with the other airline's status being more useful than AS status for non-west coast trips. In this case, AA, CO, NW, or DL may make sense as a secondary program, despite the apparent redundancy with AS, if status and awards there is more useful for some of your flights than AS status and awards even with the AS partnership.

From what you write, it looks more like (b) above. In which case, checking the schedules and flight options to your likely destinations, as you are doing, is the obvious step to take in deciding which FF programs to choose.

But note the rumored mergers going on (US/DL, UA/CO). If any of them go through, that may affect FF alliances and partnerships.

First of all, we are probably all biased. I know I am - I'm going to recommend that you pick either AA or UA.

I fly in & out of Seattle every 2 weeks. I use UA for the simple reason that I connect through DEN, which I like better than the AA option (ORD). Now that I'm hooked into UA, I'm addicted to E+. And I have yet to have a desired upgrade denied as a 1P. (Yes, I realize I'm not trying to upgrade the most desirable routes in the system, but still, a 1024-mile segment is a pretty good spot for 2 e-500's.)

The AA advantage is - I think - some nonstops to New York City. I don't believe that UA can get you that. They'll get you to IAD and CLT (on US metal) - that's your East Coast selection. Plan B is one-stop through DEN, which is better than ORD in the winter. Another AA advantage is that Golds can prebook exit row. On UA, you need 1P to do that.

Anyway, I don't know much about CO, other than the fact that FT'ers hate their mileage program. They seem to have a unique international route map with some cool offerings that others don't have, as well as an international premium cabin product that is well-regarded. I just don't know how hard is it to upgrade into without buying the revenue tickets.

Well, here's some more advice. Chart carefully what you want and what you can reasonably fly. I just crossed into EXP-land on AA. 100,000 miles is a LOT of flying and demanded a number of explicit MRs. I seem to have a great patience and tolerance for this: for the most part, I enjoyed these adventures. You may not. If your goal is unlimited upgrades domestically and international upgrades via AA EXP eVIPs, you may want/need to concentrate your flying on just one carrier. Sit down with a spreadsheet and Great Circle Mapper and get a realistic sense of how quickly you're going to be able to earn EQMs on your routings. It took me 60+ segments to get to EXP...

Here's a strategy that may work for your needs: do the platinum challenge on AA, get Plat, request comp to MVP Gold on AS after you've amassed a goodly number (50,000+) of AA EQMs, keep flying to maintain status in both programs. Platinum on AA is nothing to sneeze at and I found the benefits quite real in the ~8 months I spent as Plat. In terms of the sequence of operations, I did something quite similar to what I just described, though I waited until I was at about 85,000 miles before requesting the comp to MVP Gold.

One other tip: absolutely buy the AC membership if you're going to be doing regular AA travel. At the time I bought, I wondered if I was just indulging myself. In the few months I've had it, the Admiral's Club membership has already paid for itself in all sorts of ways.

My plan is to maintain EXP in AA and to try to keep MVP Gold on segments. We'll see how realistic that is in 2007.

-KF

Thanks
 

to tjl - definitely your approach B. I have more miles on UA, CO, and US Airways that I could ever use, so I'm after the creature comfort benefits.

To pinneped and mr. fine, excellent advice. There's a chance I make AS MVP Gold, which could by me time to hit a status on another airline in early 07, and then focus on AS, or else, as you suggest as for a comp in 08.

UA for me... AS has lots of non-stops but not much frequency to those dests.

UA requires much connecting in DEN but thats one of the best airports to connect through... ORD or IAH? no way!

You can red-eye to IAD and get to most places in the east coast in the AM. This gets you 4.5 hrs of sleep at least.

E+ rules, no doubt about it. Only 25K miles to hit Premier and have it for free. You can also buy as you go or get E+ access for $299

UA does IAD, ORD, DEN, LAX, SFO, NRT, PDX from SEA.

I live in SEA and travel about 110k/year almost exclusively domestic (except for major vacations). Here is my input on your situation:

AS is by far the biggest carrier in SEA, as it is their HQ/Main Hub. However, as you have noted, AS is very strong on the West Coast but has somewhat limited trans-continental flight options (BOS, ORD, WAS and a few others).

After AS, UA and NW both have many daily departures out of SEA. UA used to have more, then cut back in Chapter 11 in 2002-03, but more recently NW has also filed Ch11 and cut back so I don't know currently which truly has more daily flights. CO, DL and AA all have significantly fewer options out of SEA than UA and NW (measured by both flights and gates) so IMO you probably would be best focusing on those two.

I used to be primary on UA, but really got tired of connection problems in ORD and SFO (for West coast travel).

So for the past 6-7 years, I have focused on NW as primary (with AS secondary). Traveling east you will connect in either MSP or DTW, both of which also provide several daily flights to Schipol (on NW and KLM codeshare) which I saw you listed.

My observations/considerations:
1) I have qualified for Plat each year on NW and depending on the year I have been MVP or MVPG on AS.

2) Between the two, NW requires 75k for top-tier elite, while UA is 100k - for me this made a significant difference.

3) NW provides automatic domestic (48states) upgrades for elite travelers while UA provides E+ and upgrade vouchers depending on your elite tier. Note: SEA is a heavy elite market for NW so unlike other cities you cannot count on an upgrade every flight - this year my upgrade % as Plat out of SEA was probably 75% and many of those were at the gate vs. in advance.

4) NW WorldClubs are reciprocal with AS Board Room, and both are generally much nicer than UA Red Carpet Club.

5) AS will typically provide a status match to MVPG from top (or sometimes middle) tier on another major, NW will typically only match to Gold but not Plat.

What I would probably do in your shoes is to compare my estimated travel pattern and decide if I wanted to focus on Elite status on either AS or NW as primary with the other being secondary. You will get frequent upgrades on both (on their own metal), so you will need to decide which is of greater value to you - I chose to focus on NW since my travel mix is about 60% midwest and east vs. 40% west. I also place a higher value on being upgraded for 5-6hour itineraries than 2-3hour ones. You can also earn on CO and DL for either airline, but AS also partners with AA, NW does not.

Once you've decided you can credit travel on both airlines to your preferred account and once you've earned desired elite tier you can transition to the other. For example, you may find that AS-MVP and NW-Gold is better for you than AS-MVPG and NW-Silver. One thing to keep in mind is that if you are crediting your miles to the program other than that you are flying you will give up upgrade privileges on that segment (there used to be some clever ways around this, but I think the systems have closed all of the loopholes now).

I'm sure there are those who feel that UA is better than NW out of SEA and they may be right depending on their own travel plans, but I will also throw out that my business partner was a top-tier UA flyer for many years and switched over to NW in 2005 and has been very happy with the change.

BTW- there are a LOT more experts available on each of these programs above by going to the appropriate FT board.

Best of luck with your decision and welcome to Seattle!

We used to fly NW, but switched to UA back in 1999 in order to get into the upper deck Party on the PIP Express. It was a good decision. ^ Since then both Hunki and I have both been UA 1ks every year. Up until last year we were also both AS MVPGs. We dropped AS last year because if became way too difficult to upgrade the transcons even as an MVPG and, after we closed our PDX office, our need for weekly SEA/PDX trips no longer existed.

On UA we typically take three international trips a year and the rest is all domestic. We love the service. We are almost always (at least 95% of the time) upgraded to first or business. As a matter of fact, I personally have never flown internationally in coach, and have made it a lifetime goal to maintain that record. ;)

Maybe we are just lucky, but we have never really had problems with connections in either SFO or ORD. Even during "the summer from hell" everything went smoothly for us. Back then I was even starting to feel a little guilty about accepting all of the bennies they were handing out by way of apology for our "inconvenience".

We are both closing in on UA Million Miler so it is unlikely that we will switch, at least until we hit that goal. I do occasionally toy with idea of achieving lifetime status on AA before we retire. If we do that it would be primarily the result of credit card spending.

So until we retire, it will be almost all UA metal for us. When we fly places that UA doesn't, i.e. TEL, we fly SEA/FRA/SEA on a UA revenue ticket and then get an award ticket FRA/TEL/FRA. Once we retire we have a huge stock of both *Alliance and One World miles to burn to see the rest of the world.

Our only regular destinations to which AS is really a lot more convenient than UA are LAS, LGB and SAN. Even since we dropped AS status, we have always managed to get first class seats on those flights.