United mechanics reject contract
 

United mechanics reject contract

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/010634.html

ooops... darn, you beat me to it!

[This message has been edited by duxfan (edited 02-12-2002).]

Mechanics at United Airlines voted overwhelmingly last night to reject a contract settlement proposed by a White House-appointed panel, raising the possibility of new labor turmoil at the carrier.

Of the 13,000 mechanics at United represented by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, 90 percent cast ballots; 68 percent of those voted to reject the proposed settlement, which would have raised the top hourly wage 37 percent upon signing and nearly 47 percent over the life of the four-year agreement. In a second ballot, 86 percent voted to authorize a strike.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/13/business/13AIR.html

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So it aint a very pretty picture these days at UA! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/010634.html

A friend of mine once said "never saw a union that didn't take a good man and make him mediorce. Guess you can add unemployed. I don't want to sound like a rabid anti-unionist, but the leadership needs to lead: Using 20th century mentality in the 21st century does not serve your membership at all in the long wrong. Guess the 140,000 miles I've got sitting in my MP account may end up being useless...unless someone has a suggestion...transfer them to something else perhaps? Any help appreciated. (UA Express pulled out of here, so I have gone to NW).

A friend of mine once said "never saw a union that didn't take a good man and make him mediorce." Guess you can add unemployed. I don't want to sound like a rabid anti-unionist, but the leadership needs to lead: Using 20th century mentality in the 21st century does not serve your membership at all in the long run. Guess the 140,000 miles I've got sitting in my MP account may end up being useless...unless someone has a suggestion...transfer them to something else perhaps? Any help appreciated. (UA Express pulled out of here, so I have gone to NW).

Ray Neidl, analyst at ABN Amro, said mechanics were on a ``suicide mission'' that could take the company down. ``This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back,'' Neidl said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020213/n13320333_1.html

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Also please note:

UA Statement Regarding IAM 141M Vote

"Although District 141M has rejected the PEB's recommendations, both parties have agreed to re-enter negotiations during which either an agreement will be reached or a new proposal advanced. If progress is made, and there is no reason to believe that it can't be, then we anticipate that another vote will occur by mid-March, without interruption of operations..."

http://www.ual.com/site/response/1,13497,,00.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/010615.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/010634.html



[This message has been edited by doc (edited 02-13-2002).]

I tell you, unions are trying to work with a 1950s mentality in the 21st century. It will not work. I don't know about you, but I think that a 37 percent raise is a lot better than not getting a paycheck. Yes, I know that they didn't get a raise for seven years, and that they might have to give some of it back, but I'm not sure what they want, seeing how they got everything the emergency board recommended.

If I were UAL, I'd start getting the names of all the mechanics who were laid off over the past few months, both those who were with UAL and those with other companies.

I think that those folks might want a paycheck more than they want union solidarity.

Unions have helped far more people than they've hurt. In any event, most threatened airline strikes seem to end on the last day of the cooling off period (which is on the 18th, perhaps??). Often in the last hours. Maybe a strike will come to pass, but I wouldn't bet on it. tls

mdtony -

i agree with most of your last post, with one exception:

while UA mechanics did not get a raise for the past 7 years, they didn't agree to it without some form of compensation. the compensation was the stock that exchanged the lower wages for. it seems to be getting lost in the liberal media that while UA mechanics PAYCHECKS were smaller that the average over the period of the ESOP, their OVERALL COMPENSATION was not when you factor in the stock at the price they agreed to pay for it.

unfortunately the management team that the employee owners put in place hasn't done a very good job maximizing shareholder value. and of course, the continued labor strife at UAL hasn't done anything for the stock either. UAL employees complained about Wolf until he left, but the whole labor/management situation hasn't changed a bit since the ESOP. It still seems that every labor group at UA is only concerned with their piece of the pie.

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Sadly, that appears to very much be the case. UA is having a kinda' civil war of sorts, and it is NOT a pretty picture emerging! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I can tell you this. If the IAM decides to strike, they'll hurt -- well, how many employees does UAL have? Because those folks may very well find themselves without a job.

Do not jump all over the mechanics unless you are willing to do the same to the pilots. The pilots Union are the one's who are sinking the ship. They set the tone with their high demands. Why expect less from the other unions???

There we go.... Another vote for "they got their egg from the golden goose, so there must be one left for us"...

The business has changed dramatically since 9/11, and the pilots contract was renegotiated prior to that date. I don't think the pilots agreement was a smart one either, but it wasn't nearly as obvious at that time that UA was in so much financial trouble. The fact that the mechanics can see the bleeding at UA, and have decided to act like sharks is inexcusable.

I am amazed that NOT ONE employee group at UA has stepped forward and said that it is time to act United and lead the way back to stability, if not profitability.

The employee owners at UA continue to act like employees, not owners. As a business owner myself, 9/11 meant NOT taking a paycheck, in order to keep employees on the payroll, when times were tough.

That poor golden goose... It has to be exhausted by now... I really don't see where UA could've signed the contract they agreed to and survived without a trip thru CH 11. But a more expensive contract? It's just asinine! Someone better pull up, 'cuz the ground is starting to come up really fast.....

Duxfan: Do not blame the unions. The problem can be laid 100% on the feet of faulty managment. United made serious money in the mid 90's and could have settled the pilots and other union contracts for far less money then the final settlement. It was no big secret that United was stalling becuase every day they kept the old rates in place the more money they made.

If United had settled on a timely manner, the following would have taken place:
1)The pilots contract would have been much cheaper.
2)Other unions would have settled for cheaper contracts and would have been in place by now.
3)There would not of been a pilot slow down in the summer of 2000. This slow down cost United major revenue and bad will with its customers.

For the record, the pilots union was fully aware that the economy was heading south before 9/11 --- that did not stop them from asking for the golden ring.

The bottom line is United management took a gamble and lost--do not blame the unions for this.

Tango -

You a speak like a UA employee. Are you?

Anyone who thinks either side should shoulder 100% of the blame is missing half the picture.

Questions for you:

1. Who owns a majority of the airline? The employees.

2. And who owns the majority of that share? The employees represented by unions.

3. Who picks the management team? The owners.

4. Who has a responsibility to replace the management team if it running the company in to the ground? The owners.

refer to questions 1 and 2, and repeat cycle until it sinks in.

yes, the pilot contract was a very bad one. and yes, the company was in trouble then. but you have yet to say how the mechanics can justify their demands when you take the current realities in to account. you continue to parrot the "the pilots got theirs, so the the mechanics must get theirs as well" mentality that is killing the airline. KILLING!

Let's play hypothetical here... Lets say the company gives the mechanics an even sweeter deal. The company obviously cannot afford it, and file CH 11 in hopes of renegotiating. The employee-owners become employees as the value of their investment has been erased. In anger, they decide to make no concessions. After all, in your eyes, management is 100% responsible for the bankruptcy, right?

In order to survive and emerge from CH 11, the company decides to sell some assets. Let's use the rumor of the LHR operation as an example. Lets say DL buys it. Why would they take the people? They have their own mechanics, pilots, F/A's and others on furlough or long term leave. Who would then hire an ex-UA employee? Ask a former EA employee how long it took to get a decent airline job after EA shut down. Between the early 90's economy and general reputation of EA employees, I'll bet the years were painful ones.

The point I'll make again is that there is no leadership at United Airlines. The employee-owners don't act like owners, the owners haven't hire competent management, and the management has the difficult task of managing the owners. and it's complicated by the fact that the employee-owners can't sell! But someone has to be big enough to put the interests of the company first. And I satand by my statement that nobody has done that!