As Frank Burns once said on M*A*S*H "I wouldn't be so paranoid if eveyone didn't hate me."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.

I have a couple of random observations: First of all, it does occur to me that most of the security screeners are just working men and women trying to do a not particularly pleasant job, and should probably be given a break.

Quite a few times, I have seen complaints that some particular security rule has no logical reason, and more often than not, I've been able to figure out some good reason (which may or may not be the same reason it was imposed). And even if the rule has no good reason for existing, being unpleasant to the guy who is just doing his job probably won't do any good anyway.

On the other hand, I am somewhat concerned now that boarding an aircraft is becoming as an accepted place for random searches, that random searches will become accepted other places, which strikes me as a Bad Thing (r).

Therefore, while I have no desire to make life difficult for the screeners, I have personally vowed that I will not treat random searches as routine.

For example, a few weeks ago, I was the lucky recipient of a random search at IAH. (I had changed seats on the NW segment of a CO ticket and exchanged my CO boarding pass for a NW one. I suspect this might have made me look like a one-way NW passenger who just showed up in the system the same day as the flight.)

Despite the repeated PA announcements that jokes about security may result in arrest, apparently the screeners are allowed to tell jokes. (One screener jokingly told a passenger that he was he was going to confiscate a cake she was carrying aboard.) IMHO, if the passengers are not allowed to tell jokes, then the screeners should not be allowed to either.

I can understand that joking around with passengers in a stressful situation might make the experience appear less intimidating for some. But on the other hand, random searches ARE intimidating, and I don't think the screeners should act in such as way as to minimize this intrusion, whether or not it happens to be necessary.

On that particular search, I did not quite have the guts to do what I plan to do the next time. If I am selected, I will tell the screener in that official airline-speak voice, "before I consent to the search, I will need to see your government-issued photo ID." If I am questioned as to why I need to see it, I'll just tell them that this is America, and we don't have anonymous searches here.

On this particular search, they were trying to move everyone along as fast as possible (see first observation, that these were just working schmucks trying to do their job as fast as possible) and were trying to get an assembly line of sorts going. Screener #1 took my boarding pass and passport, and directed me to Screener #2 who had the unenviable job of hand-searching my shoes.

Screener #1 set my passport and boarding pass near his station and sent me to the other screener. I announced (loudly enough so that other passengers could hear and in an airline-speak voice) that I did not want to proceed with the search unless I could keep my personal possessions in view at all times.

I'm not sure I accomplished anything, but the screeners did seem to become more businesslike, and for a couple of minutes, it did become clear again that what was going on here was an intrusion on everyone's liberties. It might be necessary to have searches, but at the very least it should be remembered that what is going on here is an intrusion.

Perhaps someone who travels through IAH more often that I do can correct me on this, but it sure sounded like they kept announcing something like "please do not be DISSUADED to carry items onto the aircraft for strangers or persons you do not know well." The first time, I thought I had heard it wrong, but that's sure what it sounded like.

Finally, last night I was in DFW, and spent some time observing the security screener at my gate. Here are some helpful hints for any security screeners who might be reading this:

If you are indeed going to pick a random screenee, then please use some better criterion than "the first guy who boards". Last night, the poor screener was playing tag with three people waiting to board. I think First Class had boarded, and these three were Group 1. The screener approached this group, waiting for one of them to come forward. They saw him coming, and all moved away from him. They had probably moved 20 feet away from the gate by the time he finally caught the one who was closest, at which point this lucky passenger was escorted away, and normal boarding continued.

Second, please keep in mind that while rubber gloves might be a tool that is necessary to do your job, they should not in any way be considered part of your uniform. You will look less ridiculous if you wait to put them on until immediately prior to touching something that might contaminate you (or vice versa). You should not put them on ten minutes before boarding. They do *not* make you look more official. Again, the important thing to keep in mind is that they are a TOOL, and not part of your UNIFORM.

Well, it's likely that if you paid a grand for a ticket, it's the one that you can change at will. So you'll excuse me, I'm sure, if I don't buy that it's criminal to make me waste a grand. And even if you bought a non-refundable ticket, you knew the rules going in. In any case, the rules are simple. Tickets are not transferrable, period. Therefore, if you don't like the rules, don't fly, because the airlines probably aren't going to change that rule any time soon.

The rules are all there for you to see. If you don't like them, don't buy the ticket. It's really that simple. If the price is too high for you, don't fly. If you don't like the rules, don't fly. Nobody is forcing you to fly.

You get the final word and you can vote with your wallet. I suggest that if you don't like the rules, you do so.

If you have ever called an airline to purchase a ticket over the phone, then you probably know that they do not tell you the rules over the phone. You pay the money and are usually not told it is non-transferable.

I understand the policy, and have never run into any serious problem with it. However, it does bother me that I could plan a flight a month in advance for in a company. I cannot hold a seat for a generic person, I need to have a name. And if the person who will travel changes, I cannot simply call and say "change the name of the passenger".

As LemonThrower suggests, the only reason for this is that the airlines can do it -and that doing it is to their financial advantage.

I think he has a right to think this sucks without forfeiting the right to fly.

I'm just glad that this policy doesn't spread to other areas of American life - imagine buying tickets to a baseball game and being required to name the people who will be accompanying you. I guess that would put an end to ticket scalping.

Anyone else have an interesting observation/story to tell, now that the one that started this thread has been beaten to death?

I think the tax laws are poorly worded and onerous, too. Does this mean I should express my displeasure by refusing to pay taxes?

As part of my job, I have to fly. (Yeah, I guess I could always get another job, but let's leave that aside for a sec.) That doesn't mean I forfeit my right to call out what I see as being inconsistencies, problems, and outright duplicity etched in the system.

Personally, I don't have a problem with requiring ID at the gate so that someone can prove it's me flying in my name. But there's a LONG list of other complaints -- things that are de facto ground rules of airlines these days -- that are there for NO other purpose than to raise revenue.

Have you seen your banking agreement recently? It's just about as long, legalistic, and convoluted as the rules and regulations associated with an airplane ticket. But what are my alternatives? Storing my money in a cookie jar?

All the banks have virtually the same virtually indecipherable fine print, there only to maximize revenue, as do almost all the airlines. And in most cases, there ain't nothin' no one can do about it. Welcome to the wonderful world of oligopolies. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

LemonThrower brings up a valid point: corporations can pay for a "spot" at a convention, at a ballgame, at a trade show. Why not on an airplane?

SP

I don't know what airline you're calling, but AA reps always go through the basic rules - (1) change fee, (2) non-transferrable and (3) non-refundable. Though they know I have Platinum status (and thus should be relatively familiar with the rules) they always take the time to go through with them, even if I'm just making a reservation, not yet purchasing the tickets.

As far as transferrability - the less restrictive you want the rules to be, the less you pay. If you want the ultimate in freedom, you buy a full-Y ticket. If you want to save money, you buy a discount coach ticket, but agree to more rules. It's simple economics - you get what you pay for.

If the airlines didn't have such restrictive rules on their tickets, they'd lose a fortune. People would be calling every single day changing flights, dates, times, destinations, passengers, etc.. Each of those transactions costs the airlines money.

Let's not forget the airlines are in business. Of course they're trying to protect their revenue; they have owners who expect a reasonable rate of return on their investments. The hundreds of thousands of airline stockholders aren't wealthy philantropists, they're investors.

d

It seems possible that a few of the comments here fail the macro test.

Airlines ripping off people by asking for ID...Reality 1: most all airlines have lost money this year and several have or are at near bankrupcy. Reality 2: some passengers, many of which are represented on FT, fail to follow the rules set by the airlines. Reality 3: many of these people purposefully cheat the airlines and brag about it.

If the pricing is so out of wack, why is it that we do not have more successful start ups?

As an aside, lemonthrower, the grocery stores are constantly dealing with people stealing food, trying to pass expired coupons, trying to use coupons for items that they have not bought, eating product while in the stores without paying, switch price tags where bar codes are not involved, open product to touch/smell/ or whatever and have children that break stuff and move on.

One of America's strengths is one of its weaknesses. Anyone can complain, and we all do. There are few problem solvers, just complainers. (Note my first comment suggesting the lady be sent back to the front desk and have her husband paged, so that he could bring her ID was a solution, I believe). Rules are what make us civilized. Unfortunately, too many people believe themselves to be to good to obey the rules, they just cheat and complain. Not very civilized?

Security checks are unfair, they try to keep killers off our planes. Profiling is unfair, it tries to concentrate limited resources to solve a problem, instead of delaying everyone in the name of equality. ID checks are unfair, they try to keep people from defrauding airlines?...silly when you look at it.

None of these comments are aimed at anyone in particular (except the grocery example for which I am very familiar), but it will likely start a flame war from those who feel their right to cheat is being challenged.

Because the unions, stupid management and the FAA keep costs artificially high. I certainly don't mind taking advantage of that unholy trio.

I did not say requiring ID was an attempt by the airlines to rip you off. Rather, its their way to enforce their rules on transferability, etc. I don't mind showing ID to board a plane, but I do mind that the airlines pretend its for your benefit or safety. Apparently, a lot of you were fooled by the airlines on this rather small point.

As far as voting with my wallet, I generally agree with you. However, airlines are special in at least two respects. If an airline fails to honor its contract with me, I have very limited ability to sue them because they are protected by law. (lost or delayed baggage problems are a good example here.) Second, as a result of government regulation, they effectively are a monopoly or oligopoly meaning that one has little ability to vote with their wallet.

This is starting to get far off topic. The point I wanted to make is that the airlines require ID to enforce their non-transferability and other revenue generating rules, and they merely pretend that the ID is for your benefit or safety IMHO.

You ain't seen nothing yet...

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/01/23/Ta...ve_devic.shtml

Maybe it's because we've got more important things to worry about than whether or not the airlines are trying to enforce their rules on transfering tickets by making us show our IDs.

My concern is on getting from point a to point b. It isn't about whether or not the airlines make a few more bucks by catching a few folks who try to skate around the rules. Actually, I say more power to them. Cheaters drive up the fares for the rest of us who play by the rules.

VolleyballFerd I'd be interested to know what airline you are flying that doesn't ever tell you the rules over the phone. I'm a res agent and I personally say the words "these tickets are non refundable and non transferable" more times in a day than I'd like to recall. And even so, why do you need to be told everytime??Tickets just aren't transferable. The only transferable tickets I know of are Southwest Rapid Rewards.

As for the non being able to change the name on a business ticket... Thats what changeable and refundable fares are for. Yes, they are more expensive, but they afford much more flexibility than the discounted fares meant for those who know when, where, and who will be travelling.

As for Stimpy's reference to the artificially high cost of air travel.... I seem to recall purchasing a ticket between San Diego and Seattle 12 years ago for $198 plus taxes. Today, that same ticket costs $178 plus taxes. What else have you purchased lately other than maybe a computer that is cheaper than it was 12 years ago
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Get treated like the Goddess that you
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[This message has been edited by missydarlin (edited 01-23-2002).]