Why do we always accuse the airlines of lying?
 

Yes, I have been told wrong information to my face.
Yes, I have been told "gate one," when it is really gate 49. Yes, I have been told that my special meal is on board when it is not. Yes, I have been told they would hold the plane for my connecting flight, but they don't. Yes, I have been told that the flight is delayed due to ATC, when it is really because of crew shortage.

But I have found through all this that it is only on VERY rare ocassion that an agent purposefully lies. They should have better information, but unfortunately they don't. So we often complain that they are lying, when in truth, they just are in the dark.

I totally agree with you on this one. The accusations of "lying" are always made with a tone of righteous indignation. As you point out, the "lie" is almost certainly misinformation,or often information that was accurate when given but which became inaccurate by virtue of changed circumstances. "Lying" is way to strong a word for most of these situations, and it has always annoyed me when people say it when it doesn't fit.

We accuse airlines of lying because sometimes they do. When I worked for a major airline in the late 80's, we had a summer of severe crew shortages...new planes, new destinations, not enough crews to work them. We were supposed to tell passengers that delays were due to "flight controllable delays" and leave it at that. Cancellations were supposed to be explained by making excuses for crew shortages, never saying "we don't have enough people to fly the **** planes".

Now, I can also tell you that most "lies" at the gate and ticket counter are due to bad information or no information at all. But lies do occur.

edited to remove name of airline
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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.

[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 01-21-2002).]

People are accusing Gordon Bethune, CEO of Continental Airlines, of lying when he wrote in the Continental magazine "We will not cut benefits to OnePass....", while shortly thereafter the OnePass newsletter announced the elimination of Off-Peak reduced mileage rewards effective June 1st.

Did he lie, or is there just a little communication problem in Houston?

p.s. Bethune's letter and the OnePass newsletter are accesible on the CO website at this time.

[This message has been edited by Old Gold (edited 01-21-2002).]

Old Gold is quite correct! Sad but true! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Continental OnePass Makes First Mistake of the New Year

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006129.html


What can be done about Gordon Bethunes' latest salvo vs CO OP members, Randy?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/004220.html

My last UAL flight was when my daughter was just 3. Sadly, the UAL reservations agent had not booked us any seats - just e-ticket reservations, (this was about 5 ys ago). When we showed up for our return home the desk agent was shoving our BP's in the envelope when I spied that they were all in different rows. "Hey, those are all spread out, we have a kid here, we need the seats together" - "Oh no, you're together" (true only for the first leg) was the ticket agent's reply as he'd just pushed the scattered BPs for the second leg under the fold on the ticket jacket. I pulled them out and we basically had an aisle and 2 middles (all different rows) for the 3 of us, including a 3 Y/O. When I pulled them out and exposed the LIE, he said there was nothing he could do, we'd just have to make arrangements on the plane in ORD. (note that if this had been TRUE, it would have been different)

Long story short (too late for that I guess) - we went out to the boarding gate, where not much was going on, and showed our second leg BP's to the agent there, who immediately fixed it so that we had at least 2 together.

So, the gate agent lied, to my face, at least twice. First, in telling me that our seats were together (like it wasn't plainly in print there) and then, that there was nothing he could do about it. He plainly didn't want to work with us.

I have returned the favor, by managing to avoid UAL for the ensuing 5 years, and my streak is still going. Travel on AA, TW, JI, US, yes, UA, NO.



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UAL free since the last millennium - and planning to stay that way!

Maybe they don't lie, but they sure stretch the truth!

I love how "we'll be boarding in a few moments..." really means "look, we're not leaving for at least another half-hour, but we don't want to look like we're running late, so we'll keep you on the cusp of anticipation so when it's time to board, you'll be so relieved that you'll forget all about the delay".

As Shelley Berman once put it, there's Airline Fantasy Time (AFT) and Passenger Reality Time (PRT) and rarely shall the twain meet.

- Sameer

If you really flew a lot, and I mean a lot, you would understand that the problem is not how often you are lied to, but the fact that top management incourages making up wrong answers to make the airlines look good. Not all agents or employees lie, but some sure do and management pays this problem lip service. The wors is ASA and the brown paper bag.

"Excuse me please, do you know when we will boarding?"
"Yes, one moment, let me pull a the answer out of the brown paper bag...... Sorry, the bag is empty, guess we are cancelled!"

On a UA flight I heard the pilot fighting with deicing, they were backed up and oould not get us done for 20 minutes. Pilot tells them we are ready to go but for them. Then he tells people on flight we are delayed due to paper work, when in fact it was deicing.

What happened to the days when this FF board was about backing up the FFs and not the airlines? Remeber "Save Sky Miles"?, now you want "Save Frank Larenzo"?

[This message has been edited by JRF (edited 01-22-2002).]

Either way, ITYT is actively calling Gordon on this issue in this automated and free letter writing campaign. If you're a Onepass member and want to protest reduced benefits and lies(?), be sure to submit your letter today.

Remember when AA's pilots were staging a work slowdown a few years ago? I was flying out of MIA-LGA and a 5 PM departure left at 4 AM. The gate agent made up one story after another as to the cause of the delay. We were boarded twice, had crews switched on us as they were over their time limit, and never once would AA admit that the delay was caused by a pilot's slowdown. They gave us one excuse after another and the senior AA official that was present fled from the crowd as he couldn't take the heat. The police were called to the gate as there was almost a riot and one of the passengers shot a video of the entire episode.

This was an excellent example of lying by an airline where the simple truth should have been given to us. There was a radio advertisement by a clothing store in NYC many years ago that said "an educated consumer is our best customer". Perhaps the airlines should follow this example? It would solve many problems.

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 01-22-2002).]

I don't think that we on FT always accuse the airlines of lying. Perhaps people complain too often that they are lied to when it's an "honest" miscommunication.

However, some of us have direct experience of actual lying as management policy, and some evidence to back up our suspicions. Last winter when Delta pilots were refusing to fly involuntary overtime, one of DL's agents at an airport that shall remain nameless told me that she and her co-workers had been told to explain ANY flight delays by blaming the pilots, regardless of the real cause. She was embarrassed about this, and I was speechless, although it really just confirmed what I'd already been observing.

Trust is very valuable, but it is easy to lose. It's bad enough when an individual employee lies, for their own convenience, but when it's company policy, I'm appalled.

When people complain that the airlines are lying, it's understandable why they might jump to that conclusion. The airlines have created the situation themselves. I still try to give individual Delta employees the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I wonder why.

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The Delta Flyers' Guide

Because many times they do.

Also, let's not forget who is in the more powerful position, and who controls the information. They can lie and mislead us with little or no recrimination.

I think it is pretty obvious 99% of the time when, as zrs suggests, agents just don't have the best information that those agents simply do not care what kind of information they give you. Whether or not that is lying, it is a horrible practice that goes on way too much. So yes, fine, have it your way: they rarely purposely lie, but at least consider the fact that they are being lazy and/or careless at their job. They are in the dark because that is where they want to be.

I dont' know..but those GAs sure don't like to tell you the truth when the planes are delayed,and it's usually weather related.

I remember one time meeting a friend of mine in DTW, I saw the status of the NW flight as being delayed, when at the gate area...i noticed that no mention of the delays! I kinda mentioned this to him...he said,"nosense, I heard nothing from the Gate!"

And lo' behold 5 mins later...the GA announced that the flight will be delayed for 30 mins! No explanation of the delay at all! Now, i dont know what the GAs were looking at...but i would think that the NW's web will not be as realtime as the GA's systems! While they didn't lie...they sure didn't tell the truth

Okay, airlines sometimes lie because of misinformation or because of other reasons. Passengers have come to recognize these events as troublesome and unique to the airline industry. We would be complaining about the movie theaters if they:
- started our movie late = flight delays
- told us wrong movie theater = gate info
- sent us to another movie theater = put on another flight
- sold more tickets than seats = involuntary bumping
and of course.....
- decided not to show the movie we paid for because not enough people bought tickets! = cancelling flights sometimes

Hmm, then again for only $8 I get a plush stadium seat with a lot of leg room for about 2 hours instead of packed in for an 8 hour flight.


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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."