OK Guava, you're entitled to your opinion, that's what flyertalk is all about, opinions, right? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I took NW IND-LAS a couple of times in the last year or so and quite frankly, I could not tell the difference between it and any other North American airline.

But the discussion is for more than NA travel as I'm sure Ken has plenty of AP points for AC and the other SA carriers.

Again, my opinion is that either choice is good, with CO having a better network internationally than DL.

Thanks for all the info, and the speed. I'm still digesting it all, but here are a few more very specific questions, and some comments/explanations:

This is specific to the Amex CANADA MR program only, and applies to everyone holding a Canadian Amex card. The only two airlines that Amex Canada MR allows transfers to are CO and DL.

Is this for outright awards, or just upgrades, and does it apply to overseas only or domestic as well? I have zero interest in upgrading overseas travel on DL or CO.

My interest would be an occaisional domestic upgrade and infrequent international awards -- as in, 100K or whatever for an award from N America to Europe, Aisa, etc.

Exceptionally good call! Hadn't thought of that. However, I may not want to use the points any time soon, so any comped status may have expired by the time I use them. I good wait until I wanted to use them, but then I wouldn't know which program to transfer into now. Nevertheless, my guess is that my top-tier status and mileage with AC would probably get me a comp on either airline, when the need arises.

Now there's a word that talks to me: flexibility.

For international award travel, I'm not averse to taking puddle-jumper to a DL or CO gateway, then flying in a "proper" class the rest of the way. It's improbable though that I would ever use either of transborder travel in any situation.

I love the SPG program and it's ability to to transfer points into something like 29 different programs is unmatched. But even with the 20,000:25,000 points deal, I'd still be devaluing the Amex MR points even more. Instead of 4:3 I'd be at 4:1.15, or about 3 times worse than just leaving the points in Amex.

But then what? Once in HH, can they be used for anything other than hotel stays, which don't really appeal to me? (Oh wait a minute -- I just remembered that HH has that huge merchandise catalogue. That just might do it for me. Forget the airlines, go merchandise!)


As for Northwest, when I first started flying I flew them by default, as everyone else in the company did primarily cause you got a free Y to F upgrade for connecting in MSP or DTW. I do remember my early experiences with them as being pretty bad overall. More recently others have told me they've imrpoved big time (as I have experienced on UA and AA) and that NW international FC is pretty good.

Indeed. The only time I'd use DL or CO points in N America is to upgrade on long domestic flights when there's no AC/*A alternative. The SEA-ANC trip I mentioned at the beginning is an example. (Yes, I could've flown UA on the route, but I had no option to upgrade. If I was desperate for Q-miles I might have suffered, but that's an imrpobable scenario. As you can see, I'd rather forego the AC points and consume a bunch of NW points, rather than fly in coach for 3½ hours, x 2.)

Which leads me to a related comment. When you fly as much as I do, a free trip in coach is hardly an "award." That's why instead of a multitude of domestic econo award trips, I'd rather blow massive chunks of points on ultra-comfortable air travel once a year. Which leads me to one final question:

Do either CO or DL have "sleeper seats" in FC, or do any of their partners?

Thanks again.
(Decision coming soon, if I can figure out how to work this dartboard.)

It all depends where you want to go. For example if Hawaii is your destination then DL offers the best value on reward tavel at only 30,000 Skymiles,however their first class cabin is a domestic layout and nothing to brag about. CO has an awesome Biz class to Hawaii and at 35,000 for the UG beats DL hands down. Domestic travel I would have to say CO as they offer an off peak reward at only 20,000 miles whereas DL does not.

I just want to reiterate that in addition to who goes where and how often, ability to get the desired (in this case business class or higher service) seats is vital. Both Delta and especially Continental severely limit non-elites' ability to get above-coach seating on overseas flights.

If you can't get the seats due to airline policy, how often the planes go where you want to be is only a frustration.

[This message has been edited by Mountain Trader (edited 11-28-2001).]

Ken hAAmer,

My vote is DL, Since you are only interested in NA seats. DL gives you the option to book award tickets on UA with Skymiles to all 50 states. I've had better luck getting First class seats to Hawaii on UA metal with Delta miles then with Delta metal.

I am SOOOOOOOOO glad I took a FlyerTalker's advice, moved miles from Amex to TWA before the Summer deadline, and moved the miles again into my American Airlines AAdvantage account -- with no dilution. Without FlyerTalk, I would not have known about this opportunity.

Ken,

Remember a few months ago, you were telling us a trick to get AMEX points into BA via Delta? It was in conjunction with Diners Club USA. Do you remember? I told you back then I'll look into it to see if it's doable. Well, the conclusion is it's both theoretically and practically possible with only one condition - The Diners Club promotion with BA has to come back again for this to work. As I told everyone in the AC forum, there is a way to get Canadian AMEX members (preferably, very high spenders like Platinum Charge card holder) a AMEX card in the USA. If you applied the tip I shared, I say your chance of getting an AMEX USA card is almost guaranteed (assuming we are about equal in spending and credit history). You can build a credit history in the USA starting now, by next summer, if the Diners Club promotion with BA do come back, you can then quickly get a Silver Diners Club card and transfer Skymiles -> Diners Club -> BA @ 1 for 1 ratio. I know this should please you because as fellow former CPer, I understand that you are familiar with the generosity of awards with BA & Oneworld. Just like the old good days when CP was still around, isn't it?

My experience of DL vs. CO from a few years ago: as a CO Gold, I couldn't reserve award F to Hawaii until 30 days prior to departure. When 30 days came, I was told seats are released 30 days prior at the earliest. I eventually got my seat (off-peak) but not until just a few days before departure. My second experience was booking a free ticket on AF. Any reservation changes required a 24 hour wait with CO before they could confirm availability, and availability was extremely limited. Without status on DL, I could check availability while I waited, and availability was much higher. Result: I no longer fly CO.

I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. HHonors has award tickets on BA -- I used one from LHR to CAI a couple of years ago; mileage levels were reasonable--don't recall, but should be on the HH website. Again, in the U.S. at least, it is possible to open a Mexicana account, receive 5,000 or so free kilometers for opening the account, and then transfer AX MR points to Mexicana kilometers at a 1:1.6 ratio. You can then transfer Mexcicana to HH at the regular 1:2 ratio. The result is that 1 MR point converts to 3.2 HH points! I've done this twice over the past three years without any problems.