miles vs points
 

ok - im buying everything on cc's as i want yet another free first class trip to europe...

here is my question, i could do the math but am thinking someone has done it already.

delta biz skymiles card earns 1 mile for each $1 spent
chase priority club card earns 1 point for each $1 spent

which is more valuable? since i need hotel rooms and the flight, both are equally valuable.

I am thinking the skymiles are worth more but am wondering...

Thanks,
Allen

I would go for Chase points given the current uncertainty with DL.

If the history of airlines that have gone into bankruptcy proceedings in the past is any indication, Delta miles will keep their value, so I wouldn't worry on that score.

I think airline miles are more valuable than PC points. If you redeem PC points for a reward night you get a bit under 1¢ per point real value: for example, you wouldn't have to spend $250 for a room at any Crowne Plaza I've ever seen, though there may be exceptions if you pay rack rate in a major city. Ditto for their other hotel chains. If you redeem for an "any hotel, anywhere" prepaid certificate it's worse: from 0.3 to 0.4 ¢/point depending on the certificate value. If you want an airline award, it takes 4 PC points to get an airline mile. Looking at how many airline miles an F award to Europe requires, and how many $$ or PC points it would take, it's a no-brainer.

The only question is: will you spend enough on the card so that, along with DL miles from other sources, you'll have enough for that ticket? If not, PC gives you useful awards at lower totals. Stick to hotels in the Reward Nights program, and choose carefully for best value.

theanks efram - basically right now i have about 12k delta, 10k united, and 90k PC.

last year i went FC (100k) free on virgin (man that was awesome!) and then had enough PC for 2 free nights.

this next year i wanted to do the same but increase the free nights.

I am buying everything on CC to get points, even a meal for $5.

-- Allen

Three questions:

- How many $$ do you charge in a month?

- How many months until you hope to travel?

- Are we talking one ticket, two, or more?

BTW, regarding your $5 meals: there's a thread here someplace (I'm too lazy to do a search right now) about "what's the least amount you ever charged?" Several entries were well below $1, including at least one for 1¢. (I think there was some reason other than miles for that one.) I always use a card at self-checkout counters in supermarkets and so on, even if I just bought one light bulb or container of yogurt. It's faster than waiting for the staffed checkouts and less hassle than dealing with change. And it adds up.

I would say $1000 - $1500 a month. Supermarket and drugstore I do on my 5% cashback citi card because I believe that is worth more.

Would like to travel in April/May.

Sadly, one ticket :(

Hi, Allen:

What I do is get all the airline miles I can, and Priceline a hotel room. I find that I can buy a very nice hotel room in major European capitals for $100 per night on Priceline, even in high season. I find that a 4-star hotel is pretty much a 4-star hotel, so I don't worry much about which brand. If I would fly to Europe in the winter, I would probably buy the ticket, but it usually seems like late spring to early fall, when air fares are pretty high. I usually find that I can get two airfares for the points that would give me a week's hotel. Two airfares at the time I go are around $1,500, so I get the free tickets and Priceline the hotel.

thanks everyone - i will say im a POS and will only travel in biz or fc - does that change your opinion knowing i need 50k or 100k ?

"Friends don't let friends fly coach." Neither do we.

However, sometimes the answer is to buy the least expensive available (and upgradeable; airline rules vary) ticket and use miles to upgrade. You can often use half the miles of an F/J award to save 80-90 percent of the cost of an F/J ticket.

thats an interesting thought!!!

See. now I'm just the opposite. I gather miles as I go, but I don't go through any major hoops to get them.

Here's my logic: it takes a long time to gather up enough miles for an International First ticket (two, actually, because my wife won't let me go alone :)). After I've spent the year or two and all those BIS miles, we ride over to Europe up front; we sleep half the way over, but other than that, the ride is very pleasant. But it's all over in a matter of hours.

When we get there, I take the hotel points I have studiously gathered, and we spend an enjoyable week or two in somewhat the lap of luxury. It's very nice to skip around to two or three countries and have topnotch accomodations waiting for you.

As you may have gathered, status is the key -- being at least next-to-top tier in the hotel chain makes a big difference as to how you are treated and the bennies you will get..

Status also is good with an airline, but it's harder (and more expensive) to get.

Because of this, and the fact that some credit cards are giving out more points for dollars spent in supermarkets, drug stores, and gas stations, I've been loading up on hotel points like I wouldn't have believed just a couple of years ago. And, I have some very nice vacations planned.

The flights? Well, I buy an upgradeable ticket and use some of my miles for that. I don't have the philosophical hangup that only free tickets are worth shooting for. In my opinion (which is shared by others), the most bang for the buck is spending miles upgrading.

As always, YMMV.

Of course all of this is subject to personal opinion. To me, flying first class is great and all, but I would rather stretch the miles and fly for free, especially considering that only I earn the miles and my wife usually comes with me on my free ticket.

As to points, the PC program may be a decent one, but I do not use it too much as I have just transferred my PC points directly into an airline. But I would say that the PC Visa is the probably about the WORST credit cart for earning points. Consider that the PC points are earned at 10/$ when you stay at the hotel and 1/$ with the cc. HH points are also earned at 10/$ and the CC earns either 3 (Amex) or 2 (Visa). SPG are the best, you earn 2/$ at the hotel and the Amex earns 1/$. I would bet that you would spend far less on the SPG Amex to get a free hotel night than the PC Visa.

If your choices were between DL and PC for credit card points, I would take the DL miles for sure, but I would take SPG points over all of them.

quinella - i dont get your math - from a cc standpoint, the hh, pc, and spg all offer 1 point for a dollar... why is the spg better?

thanks

Another option...
 

A lot of this is my opinion, but here goes...

- First off, I would not want to be locked in to Priority Club for my hotels. I'm not saying there aren't some great PC properties out there, but I would never craft a European vacation around their availability. For hotels, I prefer smaller boutique hotels with a bit of local flavor. That's personal preference: in the U.S., I love the consistency of Marriott; when abroad, I love the exact opposite: something that doesn't feel like a big American business hotel. So I always assume that I will be booking and paying for my hotels, even if my budget sends me to the two-star type properties. (Sometimes I like those more than higher-ranked / better-marketed properties.)

- Second, flights... Since you are looking for J class to Europe, chances are good that you will need to look at multiple airlines - and out of Atlanta you might find DL totally off the board. So instead of doing a DL Amex, why not do SPG Amex instead? That way you not only get a lower annual fee and a better reward rate (1.25 miles per dollar instead of 1, since you are talking large conversions), but you get the flexibility to pick from any one of many airlines. Everybody except UA is on the board for the Big Six, plus you get Alaska and most of the major Europeans. And worst case...you either find nothing or you find DL flights and use existing miles, now you have some hotel stays you can pull from if needed.

I used to carry airline cards, but I decided not to allow myself to be locked in like that. Now the only two CC's in my wallet are SPG Amex and Marriott Visa. (HH Amex and a cash-rebate Mastercard are in a drawer for use when promos call for them.) I doubt I will ever carry an airline card again except when I'm quickly cycling through it for sign-up bonuses.

It's simply a matter of what one point buys you in its native form. "One point" by itself means nothing.

I look at it like this: if I didn't have any hotel points, what type of hotel would I pay for for a leisure stay and how much would I pay for it? Then, in each of the major hotel programs, I can see what Category that type of property is and how many points it takes to get a free night. For everybody it is different: if you ordinarily Priceline 2-star hotels, then hotel points will never be worth much to you. If you ordinarily pay top-dollar for European Starwoods, then they will be worth a lot.

The way I use them, a Starpoint is worth about 3 cents, a Marriott point is about 1 cent, and an HHonors point is about .75 cents. The way you plan to use 'em may vary a little or a lot.

This ratio - 1:3:4 - also passes the smell test when you look at a Diner's Club exchange chart. If you figure they are allowing exchange somewhat based on how much it costs them to buy the points, then it generally makes sense.

Of course, we FT'ers know that there are optimal ways to milk value out of points/miles. :)

Edited to add: there are a bunch of Milesbuzz threads about value of miles/points. There are also a lot of thread about the best credit cards. Many, many FT'ers speak highly of SPG Amex, but if you read the CC boards you'll find HH Amex fans, Diner's Club fans, and fans of certain cash-rebate cards. You have to figure out what works best for you.

Actually the math lies in looking at the reward chart. With SPG, you redeem rooms for the following amounts of points:

2k,3k,4k,7k,10k,12k,16k,20k,25k

depending on the hotel and peak/low season if applicable (see reward charts for more details)

where with PC it takes a min of 10k points for a lowly holiday inn express on up to 30k for a night at an intercontinental.

That is where pinniped is deriving the value per point from, based on how much you would spend for the hotel compared to its point value. Last year, for 10k points (now up to 12k points), I stayed at the W Times Square when rates were over $500 per nght. Again, 10k in PC gets you a night in the lowly holiday inn express. The lowest SPG properties are 2k per night on weekends.

Also, this does not consider capacity controls. I am not sure about PC, but as far as I know, SPG is the only hotel program that does not implement capacity controls - if there is a night available, you get it. You can also cancel the rez up to the night before (or possibly day of, I cannot remember).

I do not think I would get much of an argument on this forum in saying that 1 starpoint is worth much more than 1 PC point.

allen074, I forgot a couple other things. One is that the HH program gives 2 (visa) or 3 (amex) points per dollar and not 1 like PC and SPG. The other is that hotel program are very different from one another unlike many airline programs. You can look at the "big six" airline programs and they are pretty similar in their method of rewarding miles and redeeming. However, the hotel programs have a lot of differences in them, in terms of how much a point is expected to be worth. Maybe here is an interesting way to compare. If you have PC points you can transfer them to an airline at 4 PC --> 1 mile. If you have SPG, you can transfer them (to most airlines) at 1-->1, or even 20,000--> 25,000.

Hope this helps. I was very happy to switch my point earning to focus on SPG. The only bad thing was that I did not do it sooner.

i think this is what sold me when i read your earlier msgs... forget staying at the hotels... it is for the regular purchases that i want to maximize on and clearly spg is there...

to this end, yesterday i opened a spg amex, and am planning to do the 20k starpoints with ameritrade this weekend.

so i should have about 30k starpoints by end of november.

thanks :)

I have to add to the recommendations for the SPG AMEX. Starwood points are incredibly valuable both for hotel rooms and for airline miles. Why limit yourself to one bankrupt airline?

Nice work! I think you'll be pleased with SPG Amex.

A tip for the common SPG Amex sign-up bonus: to earn the "First 10 Starwood purchases" bonuses, you simply need to do any purchase that registers as a hotel charge. You do not need to do an overnight hotel stay. I logged most of my bonuses knocking back beers at the lobby bar at the Country Club Plaza Sheraton. :) 500 points per beer: I'll drink to that!! ^

Just beware of non-hotel restaurants leasing space inside a hotel: you won't earn points at those.

OH MY!

I am taking an intense german speech class at colony center in atlanta and there is a SPG hotel in the building... how can I tell if the breakfast qualifies?

Thanks!!

Well, for starters, I'd simply charge breakfast on my SPG Amex and then look online a couple of days later to see how it hits your account. If it hits your account as "Altanta Westin" (or whatever), you're in business. If it hits your account as "Joe's Bagel Shop", you aren't.

Only reason I don't suggest asking the waitress/clerk is because they aren't going to have a clue. But you could try...

Usually, if it's the standard hotel casual-dining eatery where they set up the breakfast buffet and that kind of thing, you're good. In most cases you can tell when it's not going to be a hotel charge - for example, if it's a name-brand restaurant like Ruth's Chris or something.

pinn - what do you think of this?
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/prefer...XX&H=250&W=491


looks like neither resteraunt will work ? thanks

Actually, both of those look quite promising. Especially "Lobby Lounge". Even 14th St. Grill is probably OK. I would try an experiment: procure a golden, hopsy, foamy beverage from each establishment and see what happens... :)

Great! I am sure you will be happy with the decision.

only one problem :( i dont drink the foamy and hoppy :)

So buy a coke. Same result.

heh - true

i went over there before class - they have a very nice looking breakfast buffet - no idea how much it is but they have hot, cold, etc...
i will call over there and ask the price before next sat.

i hope this works!!! :)

ok one last question - if i do the breakfast or the beverage - do i give the server the spg card and the spg amex? or just the spg amex

wanna make sure i get all that i should!

thank you

For the purposes of the Amex sign-up bonuses, just the Amex card.

However, the SPG program itself allows you to earn your regular points on hotel spending even without a stay. So, if you present the membership card, the waiter/bartender should be able to fill out a form and process it to earn you 2 points per dollar.

I never bothered with this step on a $10 bar tab. Many bartenders aren't aware of the process because I don't think many people do it. Unfortunately, they can't just swipe the card and be done with it. It's a manual process.

thanks again

spg points
 

spg points
 

What are spg points?

starwood points