Morality of miles
 

Now, we have many members among us who know down to the fraction of a mile how many FF miles we should receive for a leg, a flight, a bonus, or a partner. Being mileage addicts, we seek out these things and harangue our respective FF programs mercilessly if miles fail to post.

So, if the airline makes a mistake in your favor, are you obliged to report it? Things like giving you first class mileage when you flew on an upgrade, or giving you miles on an award ticket or not deducting miles for upgrades.

Do we, as FF'ers, have a moral or legal obligation to report these things to the airlines?

Looking forward to the responses....

Well, there's clearly no legal obligation. With the number of twists and turns in these programs and sudden, ephemeral bonus offers, we can't possibly be held responsible for auditing the airlines from a legal perspective.

Morally, it's obviously dubious. You cannot morally keep quiet about an unearned benefit. It's no different than accepting too much change at the grocery store (also legally permissible).

Having said that, I don't know how many of us can be rational about miles - a subject we're so fanatical about.

I called and complained when a web site went
belly up that owed me miles. MP posted the
miles to my account and were very nice about
it. Then about week later the real miles
posted. We are talking about 1000 miles here.

It took a few minutes but I called MP and pointed
out the mistake. They thanked me for being
honest and told me no problem you can keep
both. So I guess in this case it paid to
be honest.

Of course getting status miles for an award
flight - I may have had to think for more
than a few minutes. ( laughing)

I'm just remembering old posts here about gate agents who failed to retrieve upgrade certs like SWUs and VIP2s. That kind of puts the morals in question.

In my case, I had an award flight which ended up being massively delayed and I had to re-booked a flight leaving the next day. AA then credited me with flight miles [business class, no less] for that flight, even though it was award travel.

Now, AA has gone even further because their computer system apparently noted a discrepancy about why only 1 flight segment posted miles. Instead of deleting those miles, I wound up with even more miles.

So now, I have an extra 8k miles, which is also ~6.5k Q-points, in my account and it's a bit of a dilemma. I justified the first mileage mistake AA made as compensation for the 1 night delay. This 2nd one is harder to justify.

What do people think?

Wow,

Good question. I would wait a few days and see if the problem fixes itself.

I have a really guilty conscience, so I would probably say something and hope that they would let me keep them for being "honest".

Flip

Last fall, I flew NW and waited about a week and a half for the miles to post to my OnePass account. I eventually called OnePass and they posted the miles manually. My next statement came out, and the flights had posted three times, resulting in about 7,000 extra miles.

I had OnePass take the extra miles off my account. I figured (1) I wasn't entitled to the miles and (2) I could now point to my fair dealing with them as leverage next time something screwy happens.

I think someone recently mentioned they're account was off by millions of miles, and they reported it I think ... if it were a *lot* of miles I would probably tell them, but otherwise I would tend to think it's more trouble than it's worth for both myself and the airline to fix it.

Ok... I have a confession to make in the realm.

Early in 2000, I took several trips to Los Angeles on American Airlines (bought for me, since TWA was my primary carrier). On one flight back to St. Louis, the computers were down at check-in meaning boarding passes were handwritten for the flight with only a name and a seat - no flight number, origin, destination, or date.

Needless to say, I did not receive credit for this flight and had to call to receive credit. After being asked for a copy of the boarding pass, I told the agent it really would not help much since it lacked any sort of identifiable information and was told I would be given credit for the trip due to the circumstances.

Several days later, I check my statement online and my balance appeared several thousand miles high. Instead of being credited for an LAX-ORD flight, I was credited for an LAC-ORD flight.

Where is LAC? It is Lae City, Papua New Guinea -- an airport, as far as I can tell, without air service from AA, OneWorld or any other airline! It is best known as the departure point of the flight Amelia Earhart disappeared on.

What did this get me? About 7,000 miles too many -- which allowed me to qualify for AA Gold last year. (I feel the eyes of shame being cast upon me already!)

I didn't contact AA, as I figured the process to lose the miles would be as much trouble (if not more) as getting credit in the first place.

Was it unethical? Perhaps. But, AA did win me over as a customer as a result. Even prior to the buyout of TWA this year, I had chosen them as my primary carrier for this year. I have since completed the Platinum Challenge for this year and flown approximately 35,000 miles on AA year to date.

Greg

My friend, recently, was shopping with me in a grocery store, and said "Lisa look," just so I could see her take a big bite out of a strawberry, like those who would do such and not pay for it. I said, "no, stop" and literally had to cover my eyes. She knows how I am and did it as a joke. She thought it was hilarious. So, at least to my friends, I'm particularly moral.

With this, even I believe you have redeemed yourself and, if it means anything, I think you may take yourself off the hook. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I reported too many miles being credited to my account several times, each time they just said to keep it. In each case the mileage was small, 500-1000 miles.

There are also cases where one should have received miles but never gets them. Many years ago when PanAm went bankrupt and the miles transferred to Delta, I had a 20K miles PanAm certificate which I mailed to Delta. Delta claimed to have never received it, and I had sent the certificate by ordinary mail. I could provide Delta with the certificate number as I still had the other partner ceretificates with me, but Delta refused to provide the miles without the actual certificate or proof of certified delivery. I lost 20K miles then.

So you win some and you lose some. It balances out.

Three times in recent memory I got class-of-service bonuses that I shouldn't have gotten. [ Three times, two airlines. ] All three times I called in to have it corrected.

One time the mileage was deducted. One time I was told to keep it, and the third time the airline sent me a Systemwide for my honesty -- and let me keep it.

Each of us knows, deep down inside where we converse only with ourselves and can't rationalize, what is right and what is wrong. Whether it's money on the street, extra change at the grocery store, bank errors, payroll errors, or airline errors, I think we all know what the real "right" thing to do is. I am happy to hear that there are so many honest people out there. I hope that I can emulate you when I'm in a similar situation.
PS: "legal" and "right" are often different.
-just my two cents..thanks

I guess I'm not particularly moral.

Recently I took a transatlantic trip on an award BizElite ticket. My initial flight got cancelled, and I got rerouted. Somehow when they reissued the ticket I got credit for it -- 7500 miles, of which 4000 were base miles.

Did I report it? Nope. I actually did think about it, but it seemed like more of a hassle than anything. There's been times where rental car bonus miles, or HHonors bonus miles, never showed up on my account either. I never called then, either, because it seemed like too much of a hassle. It's less a matter of morals and more a matter of laziness.

I also wonder at what point the administrative costs of removing the miles is greater than the value of the miles. They'd have to pay for the 800 line to make the call in, then pay for the time of the agent to listen to the story and remove the miles. Certainly it doesn't seem like it'd be worth it for 500 to 1000 miles.

Oh, a followup: on the other hand, I'm the type of person who will correct the cashier every single time if I notice I've been given too much change. In that case, it's really not a hassle at all for me to give them the money and say "you overpaid".

I'm not sure what that says about my morality, since I don't even feel guilty for not calling about the extra miles I got credited with.

Just idle speculation, but I would hypothesize that part of the reason some people are able to "bend the rules" or act "aggressively" in the context of frequent flyer programs (and I have occasionally done so myself), is that their actions seem neglible and largely without harm.

For example, the actual number (and the value) of the miles involved is typically small, the individual has probably paid a significant fare to the carrier for that trip (or in aggregate), service levels leave many feeling that they are not getting their dollar's worth, and the airlines seem to represent the bad guys, profit seeking at the expense of the needy (i.e. US).

If the cost of one's actions regarding these programs were identifiably greater, the cost and returns closer to even, the customer had a greater feeling of satisfaction, or the "victim" was a more respected or empathetic group, then you would probably see even less of this behavior occurring.

I would not report an error in my favor. I
have been hit by delays that are the airlines' fault many times. It all evens out in the end.

Give a little, get a little.

It's one thing if an airline (most likely inadverently) gives you extra miles. How about asking for miles we know we don't deserve?

- Airline A involuntarily reroutes you on B after a mechanical problem. You are a member of both programs. You arrive within minutes of the original schedule and receive B's miles for your flight. You then request A's miles for what you originally booked.

- Airline A has a bonus that you know is targeted to recipients of a mailing, such as a specific geographic area. You learn the code, perhaps from these boards. You register but do not receive the bonus. You call to complain.

Is this sort of thing ethically worse than leaving well enough alone when miles show up in your account for no apparent reason? Have many, perhaps most, of us been guilty of this at one time or another?

Thoughts? Comments?

Well, I think both examples Efrem points out would be morally wrong. Both of those actions are deliberate actions to take what doesn't belong to you. It's like the difference between finding a $20 bill on the sidewalk and a pickpocket taking it from someone's wallet.

In both cases, the reward [$$ or miles] came out of somebody's pocket. But the sidewalk money fell out accidentally and you just got lucky. The pickpocket would be committing a crime.

For myself, it's complicated by the fact that one of the extra segments falls into my PLT challenge period, which means I hit PLT faster. More bonus miles on the legit flights. I would have made it anyways, but it makes giving up the miles [and Q-points!] that much harder.

So, at this point I've pretty much decided to call AA and let them know, but only after my new PLT status is confirmed. I figure they won't take my status away even if some of those Q-points vanish after the fact. I'm trying to be a good person, not a saint. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Who knows, maybe they'll just let me keep the miles.....

Once I was credited with too many miles,called UA and they took them back.But I felt better. If it was the reverse(not being properly credited)I would be on the phone in a flash.

But now I am in a dispute with UA about an upgrade I bought my Dad. The flight was cancelled and rebooked at AA. He was put in coach,(which I didn't catch because of all the rushing around).MP visa says too bad, once you get on the plane you essentialy agree to all conditions. UA says go to AA, AA says go to UA...it is a mess.Should have kept those miles.

Recently, I called the US dividend miles center to report 10,000 extra miles credited to my account. I had enough for a free ticket but wanted to use them legitimately. I was thanked for my honesty but was "rewarded" with a prompt deduction of the miles. My balance decreased to an amount less than what was needed for the new ticket. I was disappointed... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Efrem,

I respectfully disagree with your point about receiving miles on another carrier. If I paid for a ticket on UA, I deserve miles from UA. Would you make the same claim to a premier member who lost a 100% bonus because they were rebooked on AA. Besides when you think about the hassle and time of being rerouted, then a little compensation is due.

Exsato:

Had something similar happen to me -- not airline miles, but rather Radisson goldpoints -- someone else's 22,500 were transferred into my husband's account -- I promptly called GP, was 'rewarded' with them transferring ALL of my husband's points out, took over a week to get it all straightened out. Not even as much as a verbal 'thank you for bringing this to our attention' or slight GP point 'gift'.

No, I probably would not correct an airline that had made a mistake on crediting me with too many miles. On the converse, I generally do not call or write when I am shorted miles either. I.e., it is just not worth fretting over that 526 mile flight or the fact that Budget Auto Rental did not credit a half segment to SWA.

Now, on those occasions where the ante is larger (e.g., 6,000 miles at one time) I have written and received credit.

Absolutely agree with Hindukid on Efrem's point. Apart from the triviality of the points/miles in question, it is a matter of "good will."

Look at the issue as the effort you took to remain loyal to the airline/hotel. If you book and pay for a service that is denied to you, then are you entitled to compensation? I think yes.

The very least they can do is give you the loyalty points that you "earned" by attempting to be loyal; it is my view that this is not a matter of taking something that you haven't earned.

Now, if you receive a collateral benefit provided by an alternate service, then it is just further mitigation for the inconvenience from the denial of service (and I do say thank you). Had I wanted to use their service, then I would have booked with them in the first place. Would I not take the additional point/miles? Where was that turnip truck yesterday?

Some interesting points here.

From a theoretical point of view, I take issue with the position that "I was inconvenienced. This is my way of getting back at the folks who inconvenienced me."

Those are two issues. Being inconvenienced is one thing. Asking for double miles in a situation where you know it's against the rules, you know you'll probably get them, and you know you will almost surely not get caught, is something else.

When we are inconvenienced in other situations we do not define our own redress and take it. When we have to wait in a long line at a store, we do not feel that justifies putting a pack of chewing gum in our pockets. We may say something, but we do not steal anything - no matter how small - from the store as self-defined revenge. Do we say to a storekeeper "I waited so long that I ate one of your muffins; I won't pay for it because I deserve something and you should give it to me for good will so I'll come back?" Why is it only with FF miles that we use this "I deserve it because of what I had to go through" logic?

I'm no saint. I'd probably take the double miles. However, while the $$ involved may be trivial and the thrill of the miles chase may blind us to the bigger issues, it's good to think about them once in a while.

Well, this was certainly an interesting discussion, and I hope it continues at this high level of knowledge.

For myself, I've talked with AA and they apparently can't change the entries. When CX rebooked me on the next day's flight, I was booked in J, which is a full fare ticket as far as AA's computers are concerned and that's what CX paid. The CSR I talked to couldn't think of a way to change it, since the flight had already taken place and the fare code is entered.

And if the return J-class flight leg is in there, the A-class outbound leg will show up eventually because the computer system will auto-update the mileage account eventually. This is how an extra leg showed up a month after it was flown.

So the CSR basically said it'd be too much trouble to try to fix it. I get to keep both my morals and the miles!!!

I actually did complain recently about being shorted 500 miles on US Airways. However, the point was that I was also shorted a segment, and as my plans for the year fall out, that segment is likely to be the difference between making Gold and Silver.

Interesting topic, and great discussion. Very happy to see educational, constructive debate here and no "flaming".

I'm a pretty moral person, I guess (even though I do eat a grape at the grocery store to make sure they're not sour http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ). I'd probably call the airline and report the extra miles if they showed up in my account and shouldn't have. Hopefully, the airline would let me keep the miles, but part of the deal with calling and reporting an overage is that they may take the miles away (especially if it's a big error).

I don't know that it's the same as simply finding a $20 on the sidewalk, since you have no way to determine who the money on the sidewalk actually belongs to. I think it would be more like actually seeing a $20 bill fall out of someone's pocket onto the sidewalk and then taking it anyway, even though you know who it belongs to. Not illegal, just not the best choice, ethically speaking. Now if you offer the $20 bill back to the person and they let you keep it, it becomes a gift and it's yours to enjoy. Same with FF miles.

As far as the issue of receiving mileage for a ticket bought on one airline but re-routed to another - this is a different issue, because this is a flagrant breaking of the rules and terms of the frequent flyer programs (which you agreed to abide by when you enrolled in the program). You may not like the rules, or think they're fair, but you are still obligated to abide by them. It's just like going 5 miles over the speed limit on the interstate - seemingly harmless, but still against the law.

Basically when it comes down to it, doing just what the law requires may keep you out of trouble or jail, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are person with strong integrity. Also, since what is "moral" is a matter of opinion, not everyone will agree on exactly what morality is. It's been interesting to see everyone's opinions on this thread - keep up the interesting discussion!

I have had some big errors fall my way, latest 2 were AA giving me 2 rt to NRT 1st class for 50,000 less ff miles than required for a trip I have next month. The second AA agent I talked to realized it was an error, but left it alone. DL gave me two 1st class rt to HNL last year for 60K ff miles instead of 120K. I even called to ask if I was only getting one ticket instead of two. Although I am the kind of guy that has returned lost wallets and I point out errors on receipts not in my favor, I didn't think these kind of errors had to be remedied. I think of these as "goodwill" errors that keep a good customer happy.

Remember, everytime an airlines "gives" you miles, they are holding on to you as a future customer. It takes a lot of miles to get a free ticket and you spend a lot of money to get that free ticket.
If giving extra miles to "customers" was a problem, there would be no FF programs.
They know exactly what they are doing - keeping us as loyal customers to their particular airline.
Consider that many of the promotions they run for 100 or 200 miles is to make sure you are returning to their websites.
Also remember that if a plane is full in first and business with paying passangers, the flight is paid for at that point.

Many, many years ago I used to illegally double dip, collecting both Eastern and TWA miles for flights on Eastern (you were supposed to get only one or the other, but I "gamed" the system through a scheme that is outdated and useless in today's more automated environment). Ultimately, I used my illegal TWA points for a free room at a Marriott (which used to be one of the TWA rewards back in those days).

I now invite you to pick your own ending to this story, only one of which is correct:

(a) When I returned from my illegally-obtained free stay at the Marriott, I had a sharp pang of regret. I wrote to TWA, confessing what I'd done and offering to reimburse them for the room. The Customer Service Manager wrote back, commending me for my honesty and telling me that they wouldn't charge me anything. He even sent me a $25 travel coupon and urged me to use TWA for my future travel needs, which I did, becoming a fairly loyal customer.

(b) I stayed at the Marriott, drank a toast to TWA for allowing this big gaping loophole to exist for so long, enjoyed our free night thoroughly, and didn't give it another thought until I saw this message thread and wrote this reply.

Why is the morality of miles any different from the morality of life. If you will cheat an airline/hotel/rental car agency why won't you cheat at everything? Taxes, girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/life partner/steal from your employer, etc. Either you are an honest and moral person, or you aren't. A rose is a rose folks and you're either honest, moral and ethical or you're not.

------------------
What would you do if you weren't afraid?

Well, it's good to know that there are some people out there with enough self honesty to think about this issue.

I must confess: when I signed up for my affinity card I was given the standard bonus two months in a row. If they ever notice the error, they can take the miles back with no protests from me. I'm sure that there have been plenty of times in my life where I have paid too much w/out realizing it. I'm not trying to thwart morality with that rationalization, I'm just appreciative of any random windfalls that come my way.

One last shot at the "rerouting to a different airline" because this may have a bearing on individual practice.

Assuming that an X-Airline FF purchased a ticket. To begin with, not everyone cares about FF benefits, but some do and some do to an excess. For those that are rerouted and take no action to recover a "lost" benefit, that's their prerogative. Some do take an action to recover the "lost" benefit. This is not theft; it is recovery.

Had X-Airline automatically credited the FF with miles not flown with X-Airline, then I believe the credit is still warranted. The X-Airline FF sought to take advantage of the service offered, purchased the ticket, and was prepared to fly with X-Airline, but was denied the service. The automatic credit could be considered "good will" to keep the FF loyal.

Absent an automatic posting, had the FF sought, and X-Airline then credited the miles not flown, then I believe the credit is still warranted. Same reasoning, but, in this case, X-Airline had the option to say "No," but elected to say "Yes."

Does it meet the exact language of the FF program? No, so if they say "No," then you know how they value your loyalty.

Some of us value time and loyalty. Had I stood in line (either at the airport, CTO, travel agency, or Web-site) and completed my purchase (apologies to Efrem), then I expected to take advantage of the service for which I contracted. A denial of service requires me to stand in line again (ticket printed, endorsed, etc.).

As I see it, there are several reroutings that can occur and I offer my view on mileage resolutions for each (I expect that there are others); the airline can still say "No" to any that do not meet the program rules, but they are likely to lose the "good will" of a loyal FF:

(1) Rerouted on same airline to the same (or equivalent; i.e., JFK=LGA=EWR) location(either a direct route or indirect route, taking more or less segments) -- no additional mileage from that actually earned.

(2) Rerouted on same airline to an alternate location (and alternate service to original destination; e.g., JFK-ORD replaced with JFK-DTW on X-Airline and DTW-ORD on Y-Airline) -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage to alternate location).

(3) Rerouted on alternate airline -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage accrual from alternate service).

Any other thoughts?


[This message has been edited by BravoZulu (edited 09-03-2001).]

How is it against airline rules to receive credit for two airlines when rerouted. If I am flying UA and then rerouted to AA. I call UA and ask for the miles, they are fully aware that I will automatically receive the miles on AA. When they agree to credit you the miles, I highly doubt that they think you will call up AA and tell them you don't deserve the miles. I am sure that UA realizes that I will be receiving miles from both programs for this flight, but are Ok with it since, i apid for UA miles.