Reminds me of that other horrible program, Milepoint. What a waste.

Who is to say that behind the scenes they don't have an arrangement with Hilton whereby the points are actually transferred via Hilton but Hilton pocket a lot of free miles and pays points.com for the privilege!

What a rip off!

cheers Peter

Must have been designed by the same folks who put together the lame offerings for AOLAAdvantage.

Djlawman

I used the points.com chat line to talk about these unbelievable exchange rates. Here is the conversation:

<Christian>: Thank you for contacting points.com. How may I help you?

<You>:Hi, I just tried calculating how many ClickReward points I would get for cashing in 12,000 AA points and the result was 744 -- can this be right???

<Christian>: Yes it is right, our loyalty program partners set the xchange values, and as we get new partners, our exchange rates between programs will improve

<You>: Second Question: When will I be able to exchange Air Canada points into anything?

<Christian>: With most of our pointsxchange partners you can xchange both to and from your account. Some of our partners will phase in their participation in pointsxchange to most efficiently manage the resources required to complete the set-up.

<Christian>: These partners will start with the ability to xchange to your account followed by the ability to xchange from your account. Please continue to check our about partners section for updates to their status.

<Christian>: Currently you can into air canada

<You>: Thanks for the answers. Some feedback: Check out the Frequent Flyer bulletin board at www.flyertalk.com -- you guys are getting pretty bad press re: the points exchange rates and fees.

<Christian>: Thanks for the feedback. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

<You>: Err, no.

Look who's on their advisory board!

Bruce Chemel - President, AAdvantage Marketing Programs, American Airlines

Rupert J. Duchesne - President, Aeroplan Division, Air Canada

Barbara Amster - Former President, REALTOR.COM & Senior Airline Industry Executive - American Airlines and Canadian Airlines.

Their executive team include:

Rob MacLean President - Prior to points.com, Rob was Vice President, North American Sales for Canadian Airlines. He was also the head of the highly successful Canadian Plus loyalty program.

Steve Ogden VP, Marketing - Steve's 12-year career includes international and domestic experience with a number of customer-driven organizations such as Canadian Airlines, Northwest Airlines and Intrawest.

Bill Thompson, VP Partner Relationships - Bill has over 30 years experience in the US airline industry, holding various senior sales positions including Managing Director Sales for American Airline’s Central Division.

Roy Brown, VP Corporate Development - Roy brings over 10 years experience in the areas of corporate finance, strategy, technology, loyalty marketing and the Internet, most recently as the Managing Director and founder of Netcentives Inc.'s Canadian operations.

And among their board of directors are:

Douglas Carty (Chairman of the Board) - Former Senior Vice President & Chief Financial Officer, Canadian Airlines

Rowland W. Fleming - Former President & CEO of The Toronto Stock Exchange.

i love how it's "xchange" into. heh.

i think i'm willing to sign up to be a part of the sheer numbers, and then hope it goes somewhere, though i think the real use is going to be clearing out small amounts of orphaned miles in a program.

however, as it is, this isn't just bad, it appears laughable. though you might actually get to do something with those beenz while that program is still around. (i just don't think i'm twee and hip enough for beenz. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

With the ludicrous exchange ratios, I can't see this program surviving very long, even with the people on the advisory board.

Maybe we should question Bruce Chemel about this when he appears as next month's guest on the FlyerTalk chat.

I never exchanged click miles for FF miles and I sure will never even consider it in the future with the new system.

Every 3,000 miles, I get 2 movie passes, 2 drinks and popcorn....It comes in very handy to pass out to clients when they send me a referral or take my wife out (and can find a babysitter<g> )

FWIW

Based on the ratios and the business model of what I have seen, I do not give points.com one year of survival in it's present state.

This is another marketing nightmare which will prey on unsuspecting people who do not realize the value of their club loyalty points and miles.

Personally, I would be very embarassed to post these ratios to any person who collects these points or miles. For such a "distinguished" staff or board, they must have had quite a dream to actually believe there are going to be this many suckers who will fall for this scheme...or they must have been smoking some very good banana peels!

Hopefully for them, they will come out of the ether soon...very soon. Their potential customers (and I use the word "potential" very loosely) have never been in the ether. They have a fantastic idea. However, the question I have is a very simple one:

Do they really have to rip off their customers this way to make a profit? If the answer is yes, then points.com does not deserve to survive. Furthermore, the "value perception" they are creating with this exchange model is so ridiculous that it will tarnish any good thing they might do on other attributes of the site.

Simply put, they would be much better off not having the exchange until they can do it correctly.

My final point is their distinguished panel of airline executives should certainly review their marketing plan. What we are all presently witnessing is legalized theft of our earned airline miles. This business model is another fine example of how overpaid this group of executives really are. And to think, these guys all ran billion dollar businesses! Perhaps they all need a crash course in "Marketing 101!"

Actually, it's not just legalised theft so much as that it's paying to have them stolen from you after it happens the first time.

i suppose this is taking "there's a sucker born every minute" further by adding some neat Flash presentations and big names to this circus. i still remain hopeful that it might develop into something, but i have this strange addiction to guarded optimism. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

What an absolute JOKE. When I took the "tour" of the exchange a couple of weeks ago, they made it look like you'd be getting something like 50% reduction...which is still pretty steep. But THIS? not even 1/10th the value on many exchanges? What were they smoking?

And WHO in the heck gave them the money to put this together....obvisouly not a venture capitalist with much 1)smarts 2)travel experience or 3)belief in the smarts of others.

I emailed points.com to let them know what I thought....... And then I told them "good luck because you are really going to need it."

The names you see above on the board of advisors consists of some very smart people. They probably haven't invested a penny in this crap, and have nothing to lose. Airlines like American and Air Canada pretty much got a win-lose situation out of this....they can offload some of their miles (which are considered a liability from the airline's prespective) for a VERY healthy profit. Plus points.com probably pays them some premium just to keep them as partners. My guess is that the airlines who've partnered with these guys don't give a **** about points.com. They have more than enough offline partners like Hilton, AOL, Citibank etc. They're just having a little fun at points.com's expense, with no personal stake. Pretty slick huh?

By the way, points.com is funded by a Canadian incubator known as Exclamation. They're using the "incubator" model to launch internet companies like points.com and others. If any of you are aware, this business model was used by CMGI and IdeaLab, 2 US companies who blew up BILLIONS of investor dollars last year and are now close to bankruptcy. Anyway, the other companies Exclamation (points.com's parent) has launched can be found at http://www.exclamation.com/companies.html . Go ahead, check it out. I promise you will get a great laugh out of it http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Their current market cap is about $10 million US$ and trades on the Canadian exchange as XI (interesting to note that XI's stock price has dived steeply since the launch of points.com. - http://www.cdnx.com/Quotes/CompanyInfo.asp?sSymbol=XI&sTab =TradingGraph&sName=Exclamation+International+Inco rporated

According to a press release from the Canadian exchange, "Exclamation intends to invest approximately $4-million of the
proceeds at US $2.50 per share into Points.com"

My opinion? Charity would've been a better use for $4 million.

[This message has been edited by custombagel (edited 04-04-2001).]

I agree. Based on their points.com business model, anybody who has invested money in points.com or this group needs their heads read. The wisest thing these investors could do is sell their shares now before more of their money gets burned.

The idea for points.com is fine - it is just that nobody with half a brian is going to use their service at the exchange rates they charge. Anybody with any sense will use Hilton Honours.

cheers Peter

Short the stock!