I'll cry no river for someone who remains uninformed about using ff miles. There is an abundance of information out there (and of course, in here at FT). If someone decides not to spend a little time figuring this stuff out, that may be a rational choice for them, but they cannot fairly call the whole program a scam.

this is why I should write a book about it all!
 

Ah, great thread, OP! I like this one...

My opinion is that marketing in itself can often be tricky. It is meant to legally trick people into thinking they can do X. We all know this and yet we fall victim to it. I can go on and on about that, but that's another topic...

But think about it: Marketing works on us all and it certainly fools and fuels the masses! Get this, sign up for that, and you too can have these MILES which you can use for that free flight!

Yeah, whatever...

...not unless you become SOOOO savvy to the game (which many of us have) that those very marketers begin to HATE you! Yep, if you figure "it" out then they WILL find ways to block you out from the very thing you actually found ways to actually use. They will go and cite abuse, security, 9/11, the actions of bad people who did XYZ and ruined it for everyone else, holes n the system,. changes, updates, computer glitches, and even buyouts and bankruptcies. How convenient! How planned... how huge! The machine IS huge, by the way, for those who never woulda thunk it! And it intends to WIN!

So we fight the monstrous machine we are so drawn to, and we find more ways to try to take a piece of the pie, and you better believe that they do the exact same thing! Anyone who lives in a Western country who doesn't believe this is either darn lucky, running their own massive machine, or just plain dumb. It goes on and on. So yeah, it is a pyramid scheme in the sense that the very savvy are on top :D and the non-savvy are on the bottom :( . They just aint gettin any bling bling and they dunno why. They are not getting to just call up and redeem those miles they got sucked into buying into, because they actually believed it would just automatically work out for them! It should but it don't! Not anymore! We are in the world of entrepreneurialism, people! We asked for it, we wanted it, and we got it! Now, we expected some degree of upper management and a little respect for the small fish, but that's out the window dudes! Now, we have to manage it all ourselves. It's all about smaller government, and more "on your own or die"
Think about it...

And it is therefore NOT a pyramid at all, because at least that is perceived to have some sort of solid foundation. Rather, it is actually something else:

It is squash!

back and forth... all day long. Hit or get hit. (Or don't play)

If that makes sense then yes, you can see I am a tiny bit bitter about it all, but I play anyway, because I am good and I CAN redeem. I can make a hit or three. I also play it much like someone who knows how to dodge traffic in a rush hour commute in a fine but busy city like Boston. Sure, there should be a better way and all that, but while there is not one, I play the game and I plan on the busy, crazy ways of it so that I may respond accordingly. When something changes, I may bicker but I also do roll with it and find a new way. I share what I can, buck up against the rules whenever possible, and darn it, when it comes to mylez and pointz, I do get to FLY and I fly for less!

Also, just to try to be a decent human and stay in tune with what I feel is in my own true nature, if I come across someone less savvy in my travels, and they come groveling for help as would a maggot writing at the foot of paradise, then I will in fact reach down and pull him or her up to try to help out whenever possible. I cannot do it all, and nor can any one of us, but in return, I hope someone higher up than me will do the same thing.

I find FT offers this very human service and I appreciate it every single day. There's no CS to tell me NO! I love that about FT. Sure there are rules, but the rule makers are players too, so they know the issues we all have to go thru!

That's karma, networking, sharing, human decency, and all that jazz. I like it and I thank you all for it! Companies who provide these vast marketing services need to sometimes pull back and look at who hey are marketing to, and what they are actually doing. FT is a response to it, and when it comes to miles, it's a darn good thing it exist to help people out of a jam when needed!

Also, with all the crap I have learned, I find that greatness begets greatness. I have learned much of it right in here and I intend to continue the game. This makes me one of those guys who can help others out and it always pays off in one way or another. Mostly I get off on a few cool things in here, not in this order:


-helping others --and yes, this all comes around back to ya later on, but that's not why I do it...

-reduced $$ travel

-the glee (yes I said glee) of getting something at a discount (and playing the system thinking I just did that) We have all got some sort of tenacious bug that makes us try to get more and do this and that promo...that's the common thread, I think!

-networking (I have met some great people in here!)

-semi work... it is a lot like what I do--and enjoy doing--for work!

-why not?

;)MM carry on my friends, play the game, and if your friends stumble or need help, offer it up and get back on track!
Like skiing in a snow storm, there's definitely some untracked pow out there to be had by those who can reach it... Follow on!...

FWIW, Southwest Airlines' Rapid Rewards program is the antithesis of a pyramid scheme. First of all, there are no capacity controls and only a handful of blackout dates. An award is virtually equivalent to a full far ticket.

Second, you can't save your points if you wanted to. You have to earn an award within 12 months, and they you have 12 months to use it (or pay $50 for re-issue and another 12 months).

Third, Southwest may lack partners but their network keeps expanding. Awards are worth more and more every year as cities are added. Not to mention the fact that you can use a Companion Pass in conjuction with an award to get two free trips for the "price" of one.

Devaluation may eventually come to Rapid Rewards, but it hasn't yet.

With the utmost respect, Marathon Man...with each of your posts, you do! ;)

indeed! ;)
and now, when I one day find them all and string them together with a bit of editing, I will have something some less savvy mile monger can possibly purchase when wasting time in the airport lounge in paperback for $9.95!
why not. :):):)MM

You Da Man, Marathon Man!!!!!!!!!

Your wings are steady and your attitude is right.

It will be offered for nominal miles by some ff program, along with several magazine subscriptions.

Last fall my gf flew from the states to SIN on UA using US miles on exactly the dates we wanted with zero hassle.

My parents frequently travel on FFM without difficulty.

There are no hidden rules - schedule early or don't fly the most popular routes/dates/etc.

*shrug*

Cool post MM :cool:

IMO, Southwest Rapid Rewards is probably one of the least valuable programs out there.

While you certainly have more flexibility with the lack of capacity controls, and the RR program is extremely simple, there are significant negatives of the WN program:

First, you have the rolling 12-month accrual period, which is the shortest of any carrier. If you're short just one point, and you don't earn it in time, your old points start dropping off. If you fly 2-3 trips a year, at least you stand the potential of getting something over time from a traditional carrier, based solely on the flying miles.

Second, there are still blackout dates.

Finally, with WN's markets and pricing, whatever you accrue in terms of rewards doesn't have much in terms value. Sure, a last-minute, no-hassle ticket is worth something, but it's still PHX-BWI or other such markets. Not nearly worth the same in dollars as a Qantas F award or a Virgin Upper Class award.

Okay, I agree that FF mile devaluation can be harmful to FFP members, both because of the increased number of FFP members that one is competing with for award seats, and because of restrictions on mile redemption.

But seriously, a pyramid scheme? Do those of you who think FFPs are pyramid schemes know how a real pyramid scheme works, and how it fails? "Pyramid scheme" isn't a synonym for "scam," you know. Pyramid schemes are a very specific kind of scam, and one of many, many kinds.

http://skepdic.com/pyramid.html

Interesting thought ...

Anyone remember Jim Bakker and his PTL? Ignoring the mail fraud for a moment, one of the ways he raised money to build Heritage USA had similar aspects to a frequent flyer program, but magnified.

In order to raise money for his resort, he made a deal where you "donate" some amount of money and get a certain number of free hotel rooms every year for life. The more you donate, the more free rooms/year you get. I don't remember what the amounts were, but they were very small. The present value of a lifetime of one night a year was much more than the "donation". It would be something like buying FF miles for 0.5 cents per mile.

He made enormous amounts of money and was able to build a very nice resort. I went there one time as a kid, and it was great. That was the first time I went down one of those tall water slides. I think the resort is still there but under drastically new management.

Anyway, the problem was that the demand for free hotel rooms far outstripped the supply. It would be like everyone with a CO account trying to get five CO award tickets to Europe this summer.

Memo to airlines -- don't get too greedy selling FF miles to partners and restricting availability, or you may end up in jail just like Jim Bakker!

Check this out...

Hmmm... this deal sounds just as "too good to be true" as charging $25,000 a year on a mileage-earning credit card, no?

If Bakker sold 30,000 lifetime memberships, that's 90,000 room-nights a year. A 500 room hotel has a supply of 182,500 room-nights a year. Half the total supply could be used for the lifetime memberships.

Suppose everyone with a FF account decided to issue award tickets over the next year. What proportion of the airline's total available seats would that represent?

we can only wish there were some entities policing the airlines. Oh, you'd think that is the FAA, but no!

So what if the jailer is in on the scheme in a way as well? I know they are.

the JB scheme is around and has been around for a long time. Not wrong if you actually manage it well and actually redeem or promis to come thru with redemption that you put forth. But people and companies do get greedy.

To stay on top of the pyramid (which could be where the OP was coming from here) one needs to be tenacious and NOT be one of the people who cannot redeem!

I have had no problem redeeming CO awards. I know I have to call the airlines and maybe pay a fee for this (yet another rip off we all sadly agreed to too easily without a huge enough fight) but if you call and spend some time with a friendly, creative agent, and you are willing to bend your plans and airports a bit, you can get somewhere...

:)MM

RR is right for some, not for others
 

It depends on your travel pattern. For the frequent short-haul flyer, Rapid Rewards is simply unbeatable. Here's how the math works for me: 8 one-way tickets at $49.10 booked at swabiz.com (qualifying for double credit) get me an unrestricted free trip worth $300, according to eBay. This is effective 75% discount on my travel cost. Beat that.

My regular travel is almost like a mileage run. OTOH, if you travel long-haul and you are spending someone else's money, or if you travel infrequently, traditional carriers are a better fit. I tend to favor NW for those trips, in large part because of a certain BBQ spot across from gate B17 in MEM.