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-   -   Best card for foreign exchange? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/401958-best-card-foreign-exchange.html)

uiucsb Jul 21, 2010 1:49 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 14338058)
Since I'm usually in China (not much day-to-day movement) or HK (USD peg), xe.com is typically useful enough for me. However, it's not very difficult to find past WSJ rates online. Feel free to tell us what rates you received along with the dates the transactions posted and one or more of us should be able to tell you how far off they were from spot (typically very close).

Thanks. xe.com was the other site i couldn't remember earlier.
I have GBP, EUR, JPY, TRY data and should have something to post soon. I've already looked up the necessary dates, so don't want to make others repeat my work (until they want to verify and further analyze what I've done) :)

themicah Jul 21, 2010 9:20 am


Originally Posted by uiucsb (Post 14337991)
What is the standard?!?

I don't believe there is any single official rate. Oanda, XE and WSJ are all good guides, but I don't think any of those show you the full range of rates on a given day. Since many currencies can have a trading range of well over 1% on a single volatile day, an average rate doesn't necessarily tell you if the rate you received was particularly good or bad. A Bloomberg terminal is probably the best source of data, since you can pull up a full chart of trading rates for any two currencies on any given day to make sure your transactions fall in the range. But most of us don't have one of those.

Also note that if you're looking at ATM transactions, you should be looking at the rates for the day of the withdrawal. If you're looking at credit card transactions, you should be looking at the rates for the transaction "posting date" listed on your statement and not the "sale" or "transaction" date.

alemdohorizonte Aug 6, 2010 8:30 am

Six Different 0% Forex Credit Cards' Foreign Exchange Rates Tested
 
Six Credit Cards With 0% Forex Fee Tested:

1) Capital One No Hassles Cash Visa Signature
2) Charles Schwab Invest First Visa Signature
3) Citibank Chairman Amex
4) Pentagon Federal Credit Union Premium Travel Rewards Amex
5) Pentagon Federal Credit Union Promise Visa
6) Stanford Federal Credit Union Visa

Six separate and identical purchases made for AU$10.77 on the afternoon of August 04, 2010 (Australian East Coast Time) at Woolworth’s in Potts Point (Sydney). All purchases made within a two minute period.

OANDA Daily Market Exchange Rates for AU$10.77 on different dates:
August 04, 2010:
OANDA Min Market Rate (0.90703) x (AU$10.77) = US$9.77
OANDA Max Market Rate (0.91500) x (AU$10.77) = US$9.86

August 05, 2010:
OANDA Min Market Rate (0.90942) x (AU$10.77) = US$9.79
OANDA Max Market Rate (0.91836) x (AU$10.77) = US$9.89

************************************************** ************
RESULTS:

Capital One No Hassles Cash Visa Signature
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 05, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.87

Charles Schwab Invest First Visa Signature
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 05, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.87

Citibank Chairman American Express
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 04, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.84

Pentagon Federal Credit Union Premium Travel Rewards Amex:
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 05, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.94

Pentagon Federal Credit Union Promise Visa:
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 05, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.87

Stanford Federal Credit Union Visa:
Transaction Date: August 04, 2010
Posting Date: August 05, 2010
Actual Charge Listed on Statement: US$9.87

************************************************** **********
Notes:
It took me over 10 minutes on the phone with Capital One to get a travel auth posted prior to making this test. I never call ahead for any of my other 0% forex cards for any of my travels. This is one reason why I seldom use the Cap One card.

I conducted a similar test a bit more than a year ago (see my post in this same thread from April 2009) and the card with the best exchange rate then, as it is now, was the Citibank Chairman Amex. Although it has a $500 annual fee, I have nothing but wonderful things to say about the service on this card. It is truly exceptional.

I was surprised that the Pentagon Federal Amex came through with the worst exchange rate. It was also surprising to me that all four of the Visa cards posted the exact same exchange rate. I wish that I had had a 0% MC to test (but the only one I know about is from Capital One and I don't want any more of their cards). Rumor has it that MC offers the best foreign exchange rate (compared with Visa and Amex).

Considering how tightly the cards' rates fall between the Min and Max Market Exchange Rates for the posting date of the charges, I think that it's safe to say that all of the cards I tested are truly 0% forex cards. This is in response to the insistent but unproven assumption that one member makes in this thread that all 0% forex cards include a hidden 1% surcharge from the card issuer (i.e. Visa, MC). I believe his/her information to be incorrect. With the possible exception of the Pentagon Federal Premium Travel Rewards Amex, all of the results from both of my tests (the one from April of 2009 and this most recent one) are consistent with the conclusion that these cards' claims that they are 0% forex cards are entirely accurate.

wco81 Aug 6, 2010 8:51 am

What do they give you for that $500 annual fee?

Besides low forex transactions?

Of course a lot of businesses overseas won't take Amex.

aimlessflyer Aug 6, 2010 10:27 am


Originally Posted by alemdohorizonte (Post 14433300)
Six Credit Cards With 0% Forex Fee Tested:

1) Capital One No Hassles Cash Visa Signature

Notes:
It took me over 10 minutes on the phone with Capital One to get a travel auth posted prior to making this test. I never call ahead for any of my other 0% forex cards for any of my travels. This is one reason why I seldom use the Cap One card.

I always call before I travel to put notices on the credit and debit cards I will be using overseas. However, on my last overseas trip I somehow completely forgot to do this. I remembered when I pulled out my Capital One to pay for something. I was worried they would reject the transaction, but it went through as did all my other transactions during the one week trip.

fiveninerzero Aug 7, 2010 1:19 am


Originally Posted by aimlessflyer (Post 14433995)
I always call before I travel to put notices on the credit and debit cards I will be using overseas. However, on my last overseas trip I somehow completely forgot to do this. I remembered when I pulled out my Capital One to pay for something. I was worried they would reject the transaction, but it went through as did all my other transactions during the one week trip.

Crap one FTW! never called ahead for my last trip to the Philippines and South Korea, and 1 rewards point per dollar spent.

rtwvagabond Aug 8, 2010 7:06 pm

Speaking of Capital One, it seems they are offering 2 new online only checking accounts. Online Interesting Checking and Rewards Online checking, so I guess you don't have to be located in a state where they have branches to get a checking account with no foreign transaction fees.

Mountain Trader Aug 9, 2010 5:43 pm


Originally Posted by alemdohorizonte (Post 14433300)
Six Credit Cards With 0% Forex Fee Tested:

Thanks for a very informative, fact-based survey and post. It's rare that we see such a thorough, real world test of forex fees (or anything else) on FT.

alemdohorizonte Aug 9, 2010 9:32 pm


Originally Posted by Mountain Trader (Post 14451250)
Thanks for a very informative, fact-based survey and post. It's rare that we see such a thorough, real world test of forex fees (or anything else) on FT.

thanks for recognizing my effort.
it's nice to know that it's appreciated.

themicah Aug 10, 2010 6:07 am


Originally Posted by alemdohorizonte (Post 14452411)
thanks for recognizing my effort.
it's nice to know that it's appreciated.

It absolutely is appreciated. We also appreciate the patience of the Woolworth's clerk who let you ring up six identical transactions in a row! :)

It would of course be even better if we can continue to get tests like this spread over time so we can see whether the Chairman Amex is just happening to get a better rate on a particular day or if it consistently does better than the Visa cards.

FWIW, in my friend's recent tests, his Citigold ATM card has consistently gotten slightly better rates (<1% better) in several trials against his TD Bank and Schwab ATM cards in identical, serial transaction tests like this in several countries. So I wonder if Citi processes its own forex transactions and is therefore able to provide better rates, as opposed to some of the smaller banks and CUs that seem to use Visa/MC to do the forex transactions for them. Or it could just be luck of the draw on a given day.

chowder Aug 10, 2010 1:53 pm


Originally Posted by Mountain Trader (Post 14451250)
Thanks for a very informative, fact-based survey and post.

+1

maisha Aug 10, 2010 3:53 pm


Originally Posted by themicah (Post 14453759)
It absolutely is appreciated. We also appreciate the patience of the Woolworth's clerk who let you ring up six identical transactions in a row! :)

It would of course be even better if we can continue to get tests like this spread over time so we can see whether the Chairman Amex is just happening to get a better rate on a particular day or if it consistently does better than the Visa cards.

FWIW, in my friend's recent tests, his Citigold ATM card has consistently gotten slightly better rates (<1% better) in several trials against his TD Bank and Schwab ATM cards in identical, serial transaction tests like this in several countries. So I wonder if Citi processes its own forex transactions and is therefore able to provide better rates, as opposed to some of the smaller banks and CUs that seem to use Visa/MC to do the forex transactions for them. Or it could just be luck of the draw on a given day.

Yea, that kind of effort should be appreciated.

925 Aug 10, 2010 3:56 pm

Pentagon Federal Credit Union
 
Would it be worth a call to Pentagon Federal Credit Union to get them to EXPLAIN why the difference for THEIR two charges? They may understand why their own cards are different.

eltonang Sep 3, 2010 11:39 am


Originally Posted by alemdohorizonte (Post 14433300)
Six Credit Cards With 0% Forex Fee Tested:

+1
Very detailed report.
Thanks for all the hard work in getting that done.

LittleCupcakes Sep 3, 2010 3:07 pm

I sort of tested this a couple of years ago (used my AMEX Blue and CapOne) and the CapOne FOREX rate was always worse than AMEX, and in a couple of cases was worse than AMEX FOREX+fees.

The Citi ATM is where I got screwed. OK FOREX rates, but fees up the wazoo.


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