magic111,

I use to always wonder how the quote thing was done also. Go to the posting which you want to quote, and in the center top portion of the post there will be four symbols, click the one that looks like a page with a red arrow pointing to the right. A reply window will appear where the quote has been placed. Hope that helps.

but how did u quote just a portion of the text? thanks!

Try it, and you'll see the coded quote appear in the text window where you type your posting. You can delete from, or edit, the quote (or, if one thinks one can get away with it, actually alter the text).

Also, for uses of UBB code, check out:
http://www.flyertalk.com/faqsfr.htm

[This message has been edited by Counsellor (edited 07-08-2000).]

When it comes to bumping, each airline has its own rules & policies, so we should be careful of generalizations like "elite status doesn't matter" in choosing which volunteer to select. Whether you can split the voucher, whether you can get a 2nd voucher for the unused balance, whether the ticket bought with the voucher earns miles, whether the voucher is even a $ amount or a round trip amount...all depend on the airline (and possibility the volunteer's negotiating skills). So the best advice is to familiarize yourself with the policies of the airline(s) you fly most often, and decide which policies are most important to you and get those answers before you surrender your seat.

onedog: if American has a policy that everybody gets the compensation offered to the last volunteer, that's great. I've often wondered if the particular airline I'm flying on has a policy like that.

It is still possible to have a situation where volunteering later rather than sooner gets you higher compensation, though you're taking a risk. Suppose American needs 3 volunteers, and A volunteers when $200 is announced, B volunteers when $300 is announced, and C volunteers when $400 is announced. Now suppose A had not volunteered, and B and C volunteer at the same price points that they did before. American might announce an offer of $500, which A takes (and which you say B and C would then also get). A is of course then taking a chance then that D volunteers when $500 is announced, and American accepts D over A.

pshuang,

Yes you are technically correct. What you are doing at that point is very risky. You are correct that for all bumping situations, if there are not enough volunteers, the airline will generally continue to raise the offer (up to a point where they will involuntarily deny boarding). But if someone takes the latest offer before you (assuming that person is the last needed volunteer) because you are hoping for something better, then you are bummed. For me, if the original offer is to my liking, then everything else is gravy.

I don't know about any other airline, but I am glad that AA gives everyone the last, best offer.

thanks for the information on quotes onedog http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Bump story and a question:

Girlfriend & I travelling on Delta JFK-LAX 3 weekends ago, flight is overbooked, I offer our seats when attendent B calls for volunteers (though slightly pissed, as checked in with attendent A, and had her start a volunteer list with our names on it).
Next flight was a over 6hrs later, but each of us got:

- $400 Delta travel voucher (choice of that or $250 cash)
- $10 lunch voucher
- upgrade to Delta Business Elite

BE allowed us to spend the time in the Crown Room lounge (MUCH nicer than in the terminal). Plus, because we got the business class transcontinental mileage bonus (10k miles) for that segment instead of the coach one (6k miles).
This was all on a $209 pp websaver fare. Totally weekend cost was $846 (departed Sat afternoon, return Wed morning), but received $800 in travel vouchers, and almost 44,000 FF miles.

Question - we could got have gotten bumped from the next flight (following flight would have only an additional 2 1/2 hr wait) but my girlfriend didn't want to lose our BE seats.
If you have First/Business class seats (whether purchased or upgraded), and you give them up to be bumped, are you likely to get F/B class on the rebooked flight? If I gave up my first rebooked BE seat for a 2nd rebooked coach one (maybe no room in BE), could I expect/ask for any extra compensation? How about a systemwide upgrade voucher to use on a subsequent flight?
I would certainly ask for a pass to the First/Business lounge. If they want me to wait for a later flight (especially 6+ hrs), they can let me do it in comfort.

Jeff

Congratulations on the excellent bump w/DL (and on such a cheap fare too)!

I have found that if I volunteer for a bump, I am offerred a seat which is in at least the same class of service as what I just gave up, but I would definately make sure.

For an additional 2 1/2 hours, assuming that you had the free time and didn't need to be anywhere in a hurry, I would have probably given up my seat. Achieving the double bump is a great way to earn travel money.

[This message has been edited by onedog (edited 07-10-2000).]

A comment was made that one could withdraw the offer to volunteer, seemingly as late as one wants. There is a practical limit to that, however. Any change of mind needs to be before boarding passes have been issued using the volunteered seats. That means that you'd best be watching the gate counter action closely.

I, myself, am a college undergrad, and have frequently done a lot of DTW-NRT/KIX-MNL/BKK RT flights on NW. Here's what I figured out after all these years:

a. Given your travel date is on a Thursday and is not on a peak season, your chances of overbooking is low, unless there's bad weather. Peak time: WINTER, on Saturdays.
b. If economy is overbooked, and there are a bunch of business/first class seats open, economy class pax get upgraded at the gate agent's discretion.
c. ALWAYS, when checking in (luggage check-in), ask the gate agent if the flight is overbooked. If so, ask how you can get on the list. Do the same at the gate counter. [Sometimes when you don't expect it, the flight can be overbooked.] In Bangkok, I got my $500 voucher at luggage check-in, 2 hours before the flight when I arrived at the counter. In Detroit, you get vouchers at the gate, after the overbooked flight has departed.
d. If you fly back to Asia in December, particularly on a Sat (Dec 9 or 16 this year), there's a high chance of overbooking or operational upgrading.
e. When travelling from NRT to the USA (at least w/ NW), the Japanese agents usually don't give out vouchers. They prefer to reroute you and upgrade you, considering NW has a bunch of other flights departing to the USA within the hour. I think UA codeshares with ANA and/or JL to ORD and other US cities. There's chances of upgrading from NRT to USA, But don't expect vouchers. (However, business class upgrades are awesome! I heard that a one-way ticket from NRT - DTW in business class costs $3,000!)
f. However, from NRT to an Asian destination, they'll give out vouchers at the boarding area since the next flight out is the next day.
g. In terms of types of people airlines look for, volunteering comes on a first-come, "first-serve" basis. (They're serving me by either upgrading me or giving me vouchers.)

Little story to end: In early January, 1999, there was a snowstorm in DTW and a lot of Asian flights got cancelled. At that time, I was leaving Manila to go to Detroit. In Manila, there were 3 flights bound for Detroit -- all overbooked. I was offered $400 to take the flight the next day. I declined.

Once in Tokyo, my flight to Detroit was badly overbooked. I heard no annoucements asking for volunteers. Some paid economy pax went straight to the gate agent and asked about volunteering. The gate agent just upgraded their seats and put them into another city, with connecting flights to their intended destination. No vouchers.

I requested also to volunteer and was offered to be rerouted to another city and upgraded. No vouchers. I asked if I could decline the upgrade and get vouchers. Nope. I just took my original flight to Detroit. Lesson learned: Don't bet on getting vouchers at NRT when flying to the USA. Should have just given up my seat in MNL and ran away with $400 in travel vouchers.

Go Blue!

- Pat, Detroit resident, college student in NY, loves to pester relatives in Asia

Some friends told me that on 7/1/00 DL was offering $1,000 vouchers for pax volunteering for BOS-ATL flights. I was on a BOS-CLE-ATL flight on CO on 7/1 and the BOS-CLE was overbooked (but they ended up not needing volunteers). They handed out 2 drink/headset coupons to those that volunteered.

Think I'd rather have got the $1000 than the headset coupon! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I am new to the "bumping game" but was quite successful on a flight back from Vegas, checked in early, offering to be bumped, at the last minute they bumped me I got a $200 voucher boarded another plane immedietly and beat my lugggage back to DTW. I am using part of the voucher for a trip to New Orleans at the end of the month and hope to get bumped both ways!!! One of the best ways to be bumped is to look professional in dress and maner and be nice!!! This is fun!!

As a family of four I appreciate YOU!!! Thank you to all of the nice fliers out there who understand children need to be near their parents. Not to mention who wants to sit next to someone elses children. Thank You agian. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif isleroyal

I haven't had much experience getting bumped since my college days of holiday flying, but recently I have been able to fly internationally in Business instead of coach. The gate agent (SJC-NRT in a 777) said that they won't bump a business class passenger. They will move coach up to business instead of bumping.

They'll bump business class if you volunteer. I'm pretty sure you're well-protected from an involuntary bump when up front.

I played UA one night when they were grossly overbooked at the end of a holiday weekend. Got the operational upgrade, then immediately asked to be bumped as long as I could keep the FC seat on the Monday morning flight. Ended up with the typical basket of goodies: hotel night, meals, FC in the morning, $400.

Thanks Wiirachay !!

One thing I fly on Thu is b'cos AA consider Friday as weekend (so fly on Thu is cheaper) and Thu's airport is nicer than weekends.. but for the sack of bumping, I will switching my habit http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have one tip and a question.....

The tip is: we volunteered our 4 seats on AA last week on the first leg (SAN/DFW) of our trip. Agent asked if we were willing to split up if she needed fewer than 4 seats. Fearing for the stability of our marriage ("Dear, I'm going, but you and the kids are staying...see ya!"), I said it was "all or nothing". Turned out she bumped THREE people! When I asked what would have happened if we had agreed to split up, she said the three bumpees would have met me at our final destination (MIA), after connecting through DFW, just 1 1/2 hours later. Those three would be a $300 voucher per person richer, and would have been upgraded to FC. Needless to say, EXPLETIVE DELETED! Moral of the story/tip: When volunteering, don't say you won't split up without first asking when your traveling party will be reunited if you agree to separate.

Now the question.....this past spring, we were bumped (again, SAN/DFW on AA) and were shuttled one hour up to the Orange County airport, where flights had some room. Got to Florida just 3 hours later, after connecting through DFW. Question is this.....we were first in line, and after being rerouted through SNA, the agent asked (shouted, really) if anyone else in line behind us wanted to hop on the same shuttle, with the accompanying $400 per person offer. Of the 12-15 people in line, not one spoke up. WHY? This was a Sunday morning flight, so not many business travelers, I'd guess. Did people have family or hotel commitments worth more than $400 per person for a delay of a few hours? Really, I think many people do not understand the bumping routine. They're afraid it's a trick or a scam of some sort. It's like "My ticket says this flight, at this time, on this day. That's what I reserved and paid for. Now you want me to give that back, you're going to shuttle me to another airport, and get me to my destination who knows how much later? No thanks". While people going to a specific occasion (business meeting, wedding, funeral, etc.) might not want to risk it, I continue to be amazed at all the others who remain locked in to their original itinerary, no matter what. Do FT'ers have thoughts as to why this is?

jetsetter - do u know what flight no/time of day this BOS-ATL bump occur?
I am going to BOS next week, and have some flexibility on departure time. Flight from BOS to ATL are often full, would be nice to know exactly which one was especially overbooked.

Does anyone know the government Web site that gives a history of what flights have been overbooked and required volunteers to give up their seats? I've heard that this history can be an invaluable guide in planning to be bumped.

The best way to increase your chances of bing bumped that I have found: call the night before to see how the flight is looking. If it looks overbooked, arrive at the airport 2 hours early so that you can be first on the list. I never bother to ask at check-in, but go directly to the gate. If I am traveling with someone and I sniff chaos in the air, I leave my companion at check-in and head right to the gate to be first in line.

If I do get bumped, I always insist (in a friendly way)on receiving a Customer Care packet that has a free phone card, free headset rental or free drink, and a discount off my next flight. America West and Continental have always provided me with these. Also, if there is a delay due to a mechanical problem, my request for one of these packets has never been turned down.

Lastly, even if you are not an elite member, asked to be placed in first class on the next available flight (no matter what airline you will be flying) and make sure they do not put you on standby (being an elite member definitely helps here).

jwhite4 asks At least on United, I've had exactly that happen (bump w/ upgrade; re-bump w/ downgrade)...and I got an upgrade voucher to use on a subsequent flight (North American, not systemwide...my original flight was ORD-SFO).

Wiirachay, it's interesting that NW considers an upgrade on the substitute flight to be sufficient compensation for the bump. Then again, you're talking transPacific, so the upgrade is a lot more significant than between, say, Chicago and Orlando.

In general, for voluntary bumping it's whatever you can negotiate with the airline - there are no government "rules". Hence some airlines use vouchers, some give roundtrip tickets, NW uses just an upgrade http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif. While you may be upgraded on the future flight, I wouldn't count on it...but then again, I've been upgraded on the original flight just for volunteering! But that was in the early days of FF programs; today an elite (me!) would probably get that upgrade.

For involuntary bumps, there are government rules, starting IIRC with next flight and basically a full refund. That's why I'm surprised NW is so cheap. But airlines want to avoid involuntary bumps because of the expense and also the ill will, both from the affected traveler and the public at large who sees it in the statistics. Hence they'll make these $1,000 offers from time to time - it's better than having to do an involuntary bump.

Captain Mike, I've never understood why most people are unwilling to bump either. Can't conceive of doing something "spontaneous," I guess. But lets not clue them in, OK http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif?

[This message has been edited by johna (edited 07-12-2000).]

Being available for bumping means you have the time at the other end of the flight FREE! Most people have to work or are working. Wolunteering is another luxury of the upper percentile in any country.

I want to get bumped from Business Class on NW in NRT on the way from BKK to LAX, so I could sleep in a real bed, have a good meal, and shower with the good rest. Starting over fresh for the last leg out of NRT. Those 6AM flights out of BKK mess me up. Got on the plane SMOKING(a mistake in seating) section, got off, but was put back on in a non Smoke section of Business class.
I would sleep over at NRT on any trip if it were possible.

Roadrunner, I agree that much of the time business people can't take advantage of bumping opportunities. But the situation Captain Mike was describing occurred on a Sunday morning - surely at least a few business people had the flexibility to take the bump. Not to mention the leisure travelers, and for a Sunday a.m. flight there should have been quite a few leisures. Yet very few volunteered. I suppose they figured a three-hour wait in an airport isn't worth $400.

[This message has been edited by johna (edited 07-13-2000).]

In my bumping experiences, it appears AA offers most generous voucher amounts and UA offers equivalent of $100 voucher per hour delayed.

Holidays are also the key times to expect bumping opportunities.

On Dec. 23, friends were traveling SFO-Belize on TACA. The flight was oversold and they were offered $600 in vouchers and night's hotel at SFO to go out biz class on AA through DWF the next morning. They took it.

In Dallas, AA was overbooked and they were offered $1500 to spend night in Dallas and go out biz on AA the following morning. They got to Belize two days late - and on Christmas - but they pocketed $2100 each in vouchers.

Same people booked SFO-CDG first Saturday of spring break on AA (paid for with their vouchers, of course http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ). They are offered $1100 to fly same flight the following day, plus hotel and food. Again, they took it.

On that same Saturday, my son and I were booked SFO-KOA on UA, first flight of the morning. They offered $400 in vouchers for anyone willing to take flight four hours later. I told the agent we'd take it if we could get biz class seats and she said, "No problem."

As we walked around the airport that day we paid attention to what flights were oversold. Morning flights on the first Saturday of spring break to OGG, KOA,IAD and Florida destinations seem to have high probability of being oversold.

My best bumping stories happened when my company transferred me to PHX from LAX. For a month I had to commute to LAX on Monday and PHX on Fridays. The 5 PM, 6PM and 7PM flights were always oversold. I volunteered each time they offered and in that month racked up over $3k in vouchers.
The only drawback, it was with AmericaWest who is probably the worst airline in terms of service and on time record. But free travel is free travel. Also, they are reluctant to transfer remainders of vouchers.
The lesson is to be flexable, friendly and firm when it comes to the carrier breaking their contract with you. Always dress to impress and ask if you can be upgraded to first class. For me it has worked enough times to justify donning the suit and tie. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My family of 4 has greatly enjoyed several bumps during the Easter holiday season. We live in Cleveland & usually travel to warmer climes during the week between Good Friday & the Sunday after Easter. We've been bumped in Ft. Myers, FL, Brownsville, TX, Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, and Nashville, TN. We volunteer as a group of 4, but we will split up when necessary. We have one carry on that has overnight necessities--just in case we get lucky. Our most recent bump in Nashville was on SW. We'd bought our tickets only 4 days in advance so they were expensive ($589), but "fully refundable with ONE hour's notice". The bump deal was 50% face value of the ticket PLUS $200/ticket & confirmation on the same flight 24 hrs. later. We had a super 24 hr. stay in Nashville and the $1500+ we received in vouchers just about paid for the ENTIRE vacation. My kids only groused the 1st time we did this, but now they expect it, enjoy it, & reap the benefits of more "free" travel when they least expect it. Every bump has been a great adventure--we're now very disappointed if we DON'T get the chance to get off the plane!

I get the impression from reading the posts above that many think NW often offers the least in terms of compensation for a voluntary bump. My experiences have been great with NW. I have always received a voucher for a free ticket rather than a dollar amount, and NW doesn't even seem to hesitate to offer the vouchers. I paid $305 for a coach ticket (LSE-MSP-MEM-MCO) a couple of weeks ago. In LSE, volunteered to be bumped and pocketed a free ticket, upgrade to F/C, and a direct MSP-MCO flight which arrived an hour earlier than expected. On the return, pocketed a free ticket in MCO for a bump to a flight leaving 20 minutes later and another free ticket when I volunteered to be bumped on the MSP-LSE leg. Bottom line is I flew only 4 segments and pocketed 3 free tickets. Gotta love NW for this if nothing else! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

"I have an OAG and I know how to use it." http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
But most travellers haven't a clue what an OAG is, much less how to use it....

One strategem which helped me last year was arranging a little extra time on business travel in order to be able to take advantage of bumping opportunities. Especially given that I'm single, it's not much hardship to spend a couple of extra hours in the destination city and be able to see the sights a bit.

... I haven't seen anything in concrete, but back to the bumping questions:

If I volunteer to take a voucher at $300, and then the airline needs more volunteers at the price goes up-- does everybody get the next higher price?

I am wondering if the answer is "yes"-- because whenever I get bumped, they thank me and have me sit down and wait until the flight leaves... then they process everybody at the same time...

Also... my last bump, I read an article in the paper and I got everything except the free lounge passes:

* $350 Voucher
* Free Night at the airport Ramada in New Orleans
* Free 10 minute phone card
* $10 meal voucher (not good towards beer however)
* Free transportation to the hotel
* Roundtrip Cab Vouchers to and from the hotel down to Harrah's Casino and back
* Return flight in First Class the next morning

... If you get bumped involuntarily-- do they get the voucher as well?

As to when you volunteer at a certain voucher level, and the price goes up for people who volunteer later: yes, you get the top voucher value. That's been my experience on AA, at least, where I've gone from the initial $200 (I'm always first on the volunteer list if possible) to over $400 when they finally have everybody they need.

All this bumping talk is making me jealous! I flew SFO-SLC-GEG on DL today and it was a bumpathon at SLC. 3 out of the 6 flights boarding nearby were offering bumps, significant numbers of them on SLC-ATL and SLC-CVG. They started at $300 and I heard them offering $500 but don't know the final deal. My flights were crammed full but no bumps. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I'm thinking about buying a bunch of full fare refundable tickets and going to the airport and playing bump roulette. Can I check in, wait and see if I'm gonna get bumped and then if not refund the tickets? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif (I'm not really going to do this! But is it possible?)

I had a bumpathon this weekend in Vegas, "trying" to get back to JFK. Or actually trying "not to get back to JFK"

I was bumped 3 times in 18 hours, and picked up $1000,$600, and then $500 for a total haul of $2100.

Thank you America West

Best I ever did was back in high school. It was a student group going to Germany, and the travel agent botched the reservations, and they didn't have room for all of us from ORD to Dusseldorf.

AA offers us $800 each if they reroute our group through Manchester, UK. (We'd paid about $750 each for a 3 week homestay trip with some bus excursions) So the group says "You betcha" and we end up in Manchester, where somehow either AA or BA managed to lose our reservation information again, and about 2/3 of the group ended up in first class between Manchester and Dusseldorf because that was where there was room on the next flight. (Alas, not me.)

So between my chaperone father (who went free because the group was big enough to get him that perk) and I, we ended up with $1600 on my $750 vacation.

Our family of four spent the next Spring Break on St. Croix because of the vouchers.

Suppose that you're traveling on a full-fare refundable ticket, and volunteer to be bumped for some vouchers/compensation, etc. You're then rebooked on a later flight. Can you decide not to take that flight, and still get a refund for the ticket? Or is a ticket non-refundable after check-in?

You see what I'm getting at -- is it possible in effect to get something for next to nothing (just a couple hours at the airport in return for bumping vouchers)?

Just curious.

I would think the ariline would consider you to have checked in and thus it would no longer be refundable.

Of course, thats just a guess.

Does anyone have experience getting bumped on a transatlantic flight? I need to fly from ORD to BRU on Sabena or AA anytime between 5/18 (Friday) and 5/24 (Memorial Day) and I'm trying to book myself on a flight that has a chance of being overbooked because I have all the time - but not all the money - in the world.

I read many tips on getting dumped on domestic routes and I wonder if these tips also apply to transatlantic routes (ie flying Friday afternoon or Monday morning).

So, any suggestions?

Three or four years ago I remember getting bumped from AA96 ORD-MXP on the Saturday nine days before Memorial Day. They gave me a hotel room and meals vouchers and put me on the following day's AA96. That ended up being oversold too. So I volunteered again, and AA flew me the same evening to LHR, then on to LIN on BA. I arrived about 30 hrs later than planned, but I managed to visit the Art Instiute in Chicago (love it!) and gain $1350 in DV vouchers.

Of course, it's always a matter of luck. I've flown ORD-MXP many times on weekends in May, and that's the only time I was bumped.

Now that's exactly what I want! It seems to me that for some reason airlines don't overbook transatlantic flights like they overbook domestic flights. I have only flown transatlantic a dozen of times so far, but none of these flights seemed to be fully booked.

Odd that you were bumped on a Saturday BTW.

I've been bumped 3 times on LH out of DFW. If I totally cancel the trip, they'll give me $800 voucher if I go the next day or a $400 voucher if I am transferred to another airline on the same day.