Pay us or Chaos
 

Recently saw some UA FAs at ORD with this sticker (Pay us or CHAOS!) on their bags. I felt it looked very unprofessional of them to be "fighting their battle" right in front of their customers. How do others feel?

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UA Premier

That probably says a great deal about United in general these days (and other carriers too). I totally sympathise with them.

I think it's reasonable. I mean, how else can they let people know what's going on.

Once they've gone a while w/o getting a new contract, I think it's just fine.

I think it is completely professional that they let others know they are serious about wanting decent wages, hours and working conditions. I for one appreciate it when they inform us of problems and the potential of future actions. It affords us an opportunity to discuss with them what is happening and (hopefully) show our support in words and actions.

But the flight attendants DO have a contract and it does not expire ubtil 2006. The contract allows for a mid term wage adjustment in the first quarter of 2001. I think the problem is that instead of just a wage adjustment FAs are asking for other changes. They're starting to sound like all the overpaid pro athletes: Demand a 10 year contract and then want to re-negotiate half way through! A contract is a contract, if they don't like it they can take their customer service skills, go greet people at Walmart, and let UA hire new people that WANT to honor the contract and work for a fair wage.

[This message has been edited by LikeItUpFront (edited 02-02-2001).]

I feel it to be fine that they are displaying these stickers.. The general public has no idea how much these people work, and how little they receive in return..

In a previous marriage, my then Wife, was a FA, for a large Canadian carrier.. We moved to the states, and she applied at United.. They, of course offered her the position, but wanted us to relo to SFO..

Guess what the starting salary was?? ~ US$30K / year!! Can you fathom this? How shocked we both were...

But, she saw the light, and became a FA in the corporate world, and now flies on G-V's, Challengers, and Falcon 900's... AND the pay is too good to be true...

So for all of you FA's out there with the big airlines, email me, and I will shed some light on your new careers in the corporate aviation world..

I agree with the FA s right to freedom of expression. If it impacts the service, that's a different story.

But to express disatisfaction with your employer - well it's just such an American thing to do. (country, not airline :> )

Thumper

Great, the next time I answer the phone at work, I'll tell the customer how crappy the company pays us. I won't let it impact the service I provide, I'll just let 'em know.

Do I detect a little sarcasm http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

I believe this is a little different than you "answering your phone, and informing customers.."

What happens if you go on strike? Probably, not a whole lot.. What happens when airline FA's, and Pilot's go on strike? CNN reports the airport chaos..

To add to my previous point, I have NEVER heard an FA, or Pilot voice these opinions in-flight, or to any PAX's...

LorettaG,

Let's keep this a friendly board.

In response to hypothetically answering the phone in the manner you described, the FAs were not wearing buttons during the flight. They were not advocating getting off the plane or suggesting their company should not be used.

A bumper sticker on their bags in my mind is similar to a bumper sticker on my car. Would I drive up to a client site with "get screwed by MyCompany" - no. But that's not what they did either. They got us - the endusers - discussing their plight.

I'm sorry you disagreed so strongly, but I'm glad we're allowed to.

Thumper

Very unprofessional to have any "anti-company" info visable when you are working. Fine on personal items where you are not "at work" - such as person vehicle.

If working conditions are so poor, why is it difficult to get a FA job - or is that not the case any longer?

Once on strike, info is appropriate.

true.. true.. very valid points from all...

Regarding the points of obtaining FA positions, there is indeed a screening process, which in of itself is ironic.. The airlines desire people with excellent communication/interpersonal skills, and good looks. They are also very demanding, but only pay as much as a McDonald's Manager, if that... Notwithstanding the poor pay, the benefits are good.. So pick you poison...

With attitude and unprofessional conduct like that it is easy to see why you are not being paid more richly.
1. If someone is not happy with their pay or thinks that their skills are worth more than they are being paid, then they should go and work for someone else who is willing to compensate them accordingly.
2. Don't give me the freedom of expression crap. When someone puts on a uniform and goes to work they represent The Airline, they are on The Airlines time and they need to fly the company flag, portray a positive image of the company, conduct theirself in a professional manner keeping any personal dissatisfaction out of the public view. On their day off they can do whatever (legally) they want.
3. Fuel prices are way up resulting in decrease profits (or even losses), and ticket prices keep going up while ameneties are being cut.... The last thing that I want to see or hear while I am paying more for less is some basically unskilled laborer whining and complaining about how underpaid they are... If you aren't happy, go see item number 1

To Likeitupfront:

Comments/attitudes like the one you posted are part of the reason they are so vastly underpaid and underappreciated.

Perhaps if we heard their side of the story (ie, starting wages of 18k/yr, no flight benefits for 6 months, no contract for excessive time frames) we'd be a little more sympathetic. I for one am glad that middle class workers take a stand to improve working conditions for all.

Hey Thump this. No one was being "unfriendly" , heaven forbid! And the bumper sticker on your car is just like the sticker on their bags. And you don't know what kind of work I do, if I strike, or what would happen.
And for LikeItUpA** - that was sarcasm, if I don't like what I do or feel I make enough, I change it, I don't take it out on my customers and coworkers. Ya'll need to stop taking yourselves so seriously and open your eyes to the real world. It does not revolve around you. And lighten up, Loretta is the one that got you talking now http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif And Loretta is entitled to her opinion. And Loretta did not start the name calling or bashing. All Loretta did was add an other option to the discussion, which obviously did just what I thought it would, show where some people are "really" coming from.

..."And for LikeItUpA** - that was sarcasm, if I don't like what I do or feel I make enough, I change it, I don't take it out on my customers and coworkers..."

Yet, IMHO, isn't this is just a wee bit over the line, LorettaG! C'mon, please! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

I'm sure I don't know what you are talking about, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Oh Dear! Without taking sides, I repect the views of all, but this string seems very strident and with everyone wanting to have the last word no one seems to be actually commenting on the original string anymore. All this seems to be taken very personally for reasons that I do not understand. Reading this string from start to finish, it does us little credit, and it does not suprise me in the least that we end up with Moderators.

Wow, I feel like I jumped into a thread at PlaneBusiness by accident.

I think it's tacky for the FAs to have bumperstickers on their luggage. But, I also think it's tacky for the airlines to pay brand new FAs so little. So, it's a draw.

Back in days when common SENSE, COURTESY, and DECENCY dictated behavior, such an act would be considered insubordination, a firable offense. You want somebody like THAT working for you? Among your "good" workers? Spoiling morale?

Who's holding a gun up to the heads of the disgruntled, keeping them in their sorry, unhappy state?

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

LorettaG,

Let's see... I wrote "let's keep this friendly" and you responded "Thump this?"
Then you made fun of another's name?

I'm comfortable with the fact that every situation has different views and opinions. I even know that sometimes others are in the majority, but I am comfortable with my views being my own.

I never knew where flamers came from. My first instinct was to respond equally in kind, and I guess cause this to escalate. I'm glad I didn't.

But the other responders let me see how each of us looks to the rest of the world. I learned something here, and for that I thank you.

You are welcome, please remember it. Thank you everyone else for your views. As I have said, it has made me see where some people are really coming from. It is definitely correct we would not want people like that working at our companies with "bumper stickers" anywhere for customers to view. Others have articulated very well why this is not acceptable. My sincere apologies that my sarcasm was mistaken for being unfriendly behavior (heaven forbid we be unfriendly here) but I am apologizing nonetheless. Now I think we know what unfriendly "really" means and we can be more cautious about accusatory remarks.

Loretta....I "got" your original post. It was fine. There are some threads that allow people of a liberal mindset to go off the deep end.

I never get in on these arguments that you can't win, because... you can't win. BUT, I will this time (really, I'll never do it again).

Seems to me like the law of supply and demand usually works pretty well. If the demand for FA's outweighs the the supply at a given wage rate, the wage rate will have to increase. Am I missing something? If there were not enough FA's to fill the positions at the current wages, then the Airlines would be forced to raise wages to an acceptable level and the supply-demand would begin to balance. Clearly, supply of FA's willing to work at current wages is at least equal to the demand. Therefore, wages stay where they are.

I am not an economist (and I don't play one on TV) but it seems like the system works and airlines should not raise wages. Of course, the leverage of the union could change that...

Patrick, my thoughts exactly. And on another point, FAs should never be confused with "professionals."

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Maybe not for United but it does for American and the OneWorld alliance.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hmmm, if professional courtesy is costing extra, then an airline that provides superior service would be able to attract either more customers or a higher price.

That is, IF the market were closer to perfect. Unfortunately, many of us have little choice over the airline and the level of service we can fly.

Equally, there seems to a basic disruption of supply and demand at the moment - airlines are not able to offer the level of service or frequency of service that folks are demanding - the skies (or rather the airports) are too full as it is !!