If you can get the time away, I suggest one place for diamonds, or any jewelry for that matter.

Nathan Road - aka the golden mile.

This is where I picked up my wifes ring, and to this day I haven't even come close to finding the same deal at any website. That being said, you need to be savvy and prepare to negotiate. If your not a hustler, then stick to the web.

Chris

Interesting advice - I'm heading to mainland China in March for 10 days or so and could maybe give myself a day there on the way home. Did you declare the ring to US customs coming back (sorry - didn't see a loc. attached to your name, so I'm assuming US since statistically it's probable on FT)? If so, what'd they charge you? Any safe, legal ways (or defensible pseudo-legal ways ;) ) around that if there was a big fee?

I've shopped for jewellry in Hong Kong before (black pearls) and don't mind the hustle/bargaining at all. I'd just worry about getting duped because I don't know enough as much about the diamonds themselves as I do pearls. I am a bit wary of spending so much $$$$$ on a ring from the PRC (essentially) where I won't be returning for quite some time and where I have very, very little legal recourse if I get screwed. I'd appreciate any advice or extra info you could give me either in this thread or over PM/email. Thanks!!!!

peace,
~Ben~

Unless I was a diamond expert and could verify what I was buying was what they were really promoting, there is no way that i would spend that kind of money in China on an Engagement ring.

After all the studying I did, if you put several diamonds down in front of me, there is no way that I could tell the difference between many of them. Just slight changes in color (say from E to F), or Clarify (VS1 to VS2) can bring HUGE price differentials. In my example I just gave, the human eye can not see a difference (unless you are using a microscope and you know what you are looking for).

What if you get it home and have it appraised and it turns out to be lower quality then they told you (or even worse, a fake diamond). You have absolutely no recourse. Also, I don't think that vendors abroad can provide GIA certificates. (I could be wrong about this though)

That is why I bought it on the 'net, with a credit card, and with a company that has a written/stated return policy. That way, after I got it, I had it appraised. If there were any problems, I would just return it to the vendor, and get my money back (and if they refused, I would then dispute it with the credit card company, and if that fails, I always have the court system). Buying it from China (or anywhere abroad for the matter), you have none of these protections.

Is it really worth the few potential dollars in savings?

Damn, I had a long reply typed out and my IE window bombed for some reason!

Anyway, here is the highlights of the reply.

I wouldn't have any fear of getting duped in HK by a reputable dealer. Nathan road is known worldwide as a mecca for luxury items, and the reputation didn't come without tight government regulation and shops being on the level. We are not talking back-alley stalls here, but shops that display probably 10 million USD worth of stuff just in the front windows.

I did not declare anything to customs - nuff said.

Was in HK on business staying at the Mandarin Oriental, which is just a tube/ferry ride away from Nathan Road. Had no pre-intentions of ring shopping. Had been living with my now wife for about 5 years and getting married was more about planning the ceremony and timing than decision. Getting a ring of the size/quality I wanted for an unmatched price was just something I was planning on getting when the opportunity arose.

Had previously set a goal of getting a 3 carat ring, which would definately have the "wow" factor, but not be obnoxious.

Found a beautiful 3.04 round carat ring they were asking 150k HKD. The guy asked how I would pay if we came to a deal I told him AMEX. After a phone call to AMEX to let him speak to the rep who assured him the charge would go through, my bargaining power went through the roof! He had to phone the owner after I haggled with him for an hour or so, and we settled on a price of 120K HKD (about 15k USDat the time), which he seemed to get yelled at over - lol.

I looked over the stone with a couple high power loops for about 30 min to make sure the setting was not hiding anything. There was no gem cert, but it did come with a cert from the store stating a grade, which they are bound by local law to provide, and the diamond has to be at least of that quality. The cert really didnt mean anything to me, I just wanted to make sure I looked at the diamond and liked it. Kind of like with rare coins - you are not buying the "holder" (or cert), you are buying the diamond.


Needless to say, I brought the ring home and presented it to the wife and she was more than pleased. She of course had to get it looked at by a few jewelers, which only made her feel better when even the jeweler told her it was spectacular. It has REPLACEMENT COST (not "retail value") appraised for about $25 and $30k. And she was told by multiple jewelers that it was a $20-$25k stone for them.

It was graded by a GIA certified appraiser as VS1 clarity, Excellent Cut, and color of I/J.

So this was about 4 years ago. YMMV.

BTW - and this is one mans opinion, but if I was listing how I would choose a diamond I would do it like this -

Size FIRST! Women don't carry around certs or care where a diamond was bought. When someone says they are engaged, women want to see the ring, and size is king - no doubt.

Clarity - make sure the thing isnt milky, if it is really clear, a little lower color will not hurt the stone. My wifes ring is dead clear, and in most light it looks 100% white. If you are a diamond person, you can see the slight yellow tint in certain lights - but 99% of people wouldn't see it. If the diamond is SI or worse, you will probably see a speck or more in the stone, which I think is really unattractive.

Cut - I did see some ugly cut stones. A good cut can make up for some physical flaws.

Color - Put the floor at K, but evaluate the stone on sight, not a grade. Depending on the cut, the color will be more evident. The reason I have color lower is this seems to jack the price up, especially in the US, quite a bit. I think it is the #1 more oversold thing on a diamond. In the US you will see D and E color diamonds with I or SI clarity selling for huge money, which I personally think is a US thing. It seems like the US is the dumping ground for inclused stones. In HK I had a hard time finding stones that were not at least VS2 rated. Clarity was MUCH more in the limelight overseas.

In the end I am more than happy with how things worked out, and my wifes ring is definately a showstopper that still gets noticed all the time. She gets embarrassed about it, but I am sure she wouldn't trade down!

Chris

I have a ring
 

I have a whole set to sell. Its all like new with all certs receipts ect. And its all platinium. There are two wedding band and the ring. Shoot me an email. No miles but it will save you a fortune

Ring pic

Diamond cert

just spotted in the Air Canada forum... miles for rings

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378322

All the best too!

Congrats to the guy, best wishes to the woman. Never knew that until I got engaged recently and had it explained to me by a friend....

I would strongly urge against buying online. While you can get all of the "details," there are certain diamonds that just look better than others because of some factors that come together to amke it gorgeous.

Also, I disagree with the comment above that size is all that matters. It depends on your future fiance, and what she wants. I happen to have small fingers, so a huge diamond would look ridiculous. Beyond that, the quality is far more important than me -- because of it's AMAZING color and good cut, my diamong puts off a lot more sparkle than a lot of my friends' with bigger diamonds, making it look better. At the $7-$8K range, if you're shopping within the US, you probably can't get anything larger than 1k or so with good quality unless you have massive connections.

If you are interested in learning more about choosing a diamond, I suggest having a look at www.pricescope.com. They have forums on there with friendly people who are more than happy to share their expertise (just like Flyertalk).

I just remembered something. When I was purchasing a ring for my fiancee, the Jewellers had an ISEE2 which is a mechanical test for diamond quality.

-The camera scans your diamond and sends 15 images per second to an iMac computer which processes 48 different lighting positions during its calculations.

-Objectively evaluates the amount of light returned from the diamond.

-Shows the degree of contrast between the 57 facets and quality of each diamond’s brilliance, scintillation and the symmetry.

-Compares different diamonds under absolutely identical conditions and shows that not all diamonds play with light in the same way.

Not all diamonds of the same colour and clarity behave the same in this machine so you may find a lower grade diamond behaves better with the light than a higher grade diamond. The best thing about it is, it's not subjective and I really liked that. If a diamond scored over a certain number it carried a premium because it would be more brilliant than another one of the same grade. Anyway, it's just something *else* to adle your brain over.

Disclaimer, I have no financial interest in any jewellers or the producers of this machine.

My friend (who is not a mileage junkie) managed to pull that idea off via iDine on an airline credit card and pay for the reception in chunks over several months (since the establishment had a monthly limit on iDine spending). I think they ultimately got around 25K miles for that event.

Here are my two carats....if her friends are as shallow as those described above, I hope you see them rarely. :eek:

Oh, Analise, I do live in LA...everyone here is that shallow. ;)

If you REALLY want to get turned off the diamond industry, read Diamond: The History of a Cold-Blooded Love Affair by Matthew Hart. Actually, since you're about to buy a ring, DON'T. When we were buying my engagement ring many years ago -- in 1992 our very high quality 1.43 carat ring cost just less than $3,000, a steal even then but painful on a resident's salary -- I thought my husband was going to lose his mind. This is a man who does not have a single fear of walking into negotiations at a car dealership, or buying a ridiculously expensive home (now, not then!), but buying a diamond shredded every bit of trust and competence from him. Don't overanalyze it. The market for diamonds is what it is, and even though you'll probably be getting ripped off in some way, it's OK. Everyone does, whether they know it or not.

I've been looking for 2-3 carat each (big difference, I know!) solitaire earrings. I'm really torn between 2, which is "believable," and 3, which is stunning but might be interpreted by some people as having been bought at JC Penney's.

Anyhoo, one place I found that is absolutely above board and very well-priced is (drum roll...)

Costco.

I don't know what you're looking for in a ring, but they have both solitaires and smaller diamonds with some bling on the sides. I prefer a simple round Tiffany-style ring with nothing on the side. If I'm getting a diamond, I don't want people to get distracted by the little .5 carat numbers on the side. Just me.

You go to their website, choose "Jewelry," choose the diamond(s) and setting(s) and order it. It's shipped within 5 days. My Costco store manager said there's an option to ship it directly to the store, where they hold it in a secured area. You can look at it without paying for it yet, according to him. If you like it, you just pay for it like you would a 3-lb can of tuna. If you don't, you don't have to buy it or pay anything. The direct purchase option is described below.

Here's one ring I found:

"A remarkable*2.28 ct round brilliant cut one-of-a-kind diamond ring set in a platinum tiffany setting.

Only One Available
$29,999.99
Item # 859189
Shipping & Handling: $115.37

Weight:*2.28 ct
Clarity: Very Slightly Included (VS1)
Color: Near Colorless (G)
Available in size 7; sizeable to any size (Costco does not provide this service)

This diamond comes with a Summation Of Appraisal certificate from the International Gemological Institute (IGI). This is to certify that the diamond described above is genuine, and has been independently examined in the laboratories of IGI. To view this certificate, with detailed information regarding the clarity, culet and color, click here*

Also included with this diamond is a GIA (Gemological Institute of America), Gem Trade Laboratory, Diamond Grading Report. Gem Trade Laboratory is a division of GIA Enterprises, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the nonprofit Gemological Institute of America, Inc. This describes the characteristics of the diamond at the time of the examination based upon 10x magnification.

Standard shipping is via UPS insured. Signature is required. The estimated delivery time will be approximately 5 business days from the time of order.

When returning items containing a 1.00 ct center diamond or larger, Costco warehouses may require additional time to verify the diamond, in which case a refund will be approved upon positive verification. This process may require two to five business days."

Oof - she'll have to keep that 2.28 ct affair in her dreams for now... :eek: I'm 23 and not pulling down that kind of coin yet. :rolleyes:

We've looked at the rings in Costco and been really impresssed. I am just holding off so that I can educate myself further and see what shakes out in Hong Kong and at a wholesale jewellery show in DC before I get my WP Visa line of credit extended and a 0% balance transfer CC lined up...

Many thanks again for all the advice here on FT!!! Keep it coming! :D

peace,
~Ben~

Well after finally getting engaged I post my 2 cents here. I did a ton of research. Pricescope.com is the site to learn everything you ever wanted to know about diamonds. The basic premise of the site is that cut can make a huge difference in what to buy. In addition, the retailers that you can buy from are much much much cheaper than convetional retail stores and offer an additional discount (or many do) for pricescope readers. They also have a very interactive forum like FT. (I know this is repeating info in this thread but I can not emphasize how great that site is to educate). I was able to get a much bigger and much better stone than I thought b/c their retailers were much cheaper. I went with an AGS cert as they tend to be much more conservative in their grading. I also had a sarin report done and used those numbers in the HCA (Holloway Cut Adviser) prior to having the stone shipped to me. I then immediately took it (prior to having it set) to an independant gemologist (doesn't sell anything but the appraisal service, none of that I could have gotten you a better deal) who looked at the stone without the AGS cert, to make sure it was what it was. I also, of course looked at it myself and under a loupe. In general most of the retailers on pricescope will beat your local jewelry store by (and I'm guessing) 10 - 20%. They will be much more cheaper than Tiffany or Harry Winston. (I got a kick out of running circles around the diamond specialist at my local Tiffany). Blue Nile is on pricescope (ie if you search for diamonds - they will show up). Generally they are more expensive, but are probably the only retailer to offer miles. Continental is offering 5 miles/$1. AA 3 miles/$1. Others one mile and I belive they particpate with a few rebate places.

Costco didn't even come close to the price of these retailers when I looked.