I have linked my corporate Amex (I own the company) to my personal Amex in the Membership Rewards program. Since I buy blocks of hotel rooms, cruise cabins, group meals, etc., in my job, the miles pile up by the gazillions. It's too good to be true. What's a guy to do?

Travel? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

As a former AMEX employee, let me clear up a few misconceptions...1. I recall there was a single charge for $2.5M to get the mileage, but I believe it was for hospital equipment, not a painting. 2. Two Ferraris was the biggest single transaction automobile purchase that I was aware of pre-1992 3. Vendors are not allowed to add additional surcharges for use of a card they advertise that they accept. However an informed purchaser may ask about a cash discount. Small volume vendors pay higher percentages and these are the ones most likely to offer cash discounts. 4. IMHO, anyone who uses plastic to buy a vehicle could have negotiated a better deal. If you don't know the difference between dealer invoice and factory invoice or what dealer holdback is, mileage bonuses achieved by using plastic to buy your vehicle may have been at too high a cost. The only plastic that should be used to buy a vehicle was the Ford Citibank Card (Citibank replaced this with the Driver's Edge card) and the current GM Rebate Card through Household Bank (if you should really want a GM)

As recently as 1996, I was able to pay for a car in full with Visa, but just this past week I was making the rounds of Detroit area Cadillac dealers, and not a one would accept a credit card for even a partial payment. The explanation given was that GMAC recently issued a letter prohibiting credit card use for vehicle purchases. Why is GMAC involved? They finance dealers' inventory and apparently have a say in how it is paid for, even if you are paying in full for the car.

But all was not lost...carmiles.com got me 10000 Delta miles, and the dealer who offered carmiles turned out to have the best price anyway.

When Plan A fails, try Plan B!

It was Billioniare art collector Eli Broad who used his AMEX to pay for a $2.5 million Roy Lichtenstein painting in 1994.

It is mentioned in the 2nd paragraph at
http://www.sunamerica.com/InFocus/re...eprint0997.htm

How does that relate? Visa is not a charge card. It's a credit card.


------------------
Craig

That is true as a general rule, but there are exceptions -- taxis in some countries, for example, where merchants are quite specifically allowed by the credit or charge card organisation to add a surcharge.



------------------
Craig

Merchants do not have an agreement with Visa or Mastercard. They have an agreement with their bank, or its agent.

Banks in the US are not governed by Visa International. They are governed by Visa USA.



------------------
Craig

Why would you discuss how you would pay for a car before you'd negotiated the price of same?



------------------
Craig

Don't know how they got it approved, but all Sydney cabs that take credit cards have a big sign saying card use will be surcharged 10% and you agree to that by using card.

There is a sign next to it, just as large, saying "VISA cards are not accepted by this cab", as I understand VISA refused them OK for the 10% surcharge. Went on right thru Olympics, and as the sponsonship thing is a big deal that would have p!ssed off VISA methinks - who were an anchor sponsor. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

In fact rhe ONLY card you could place Olympic ticket purchases on (some were $1000s) was VISA.



------------------
~ Glen ~

You should not. In fact, the only thing the salesman and the manager should know is that you can afford the car and that you are a serious buyer. As long as you don't make too good a deal, you should spring the card on the finance person, who was going to try and finance you through the dealership. They will probably cry foul (or certainly howl) and may decide not to honor the deal. You can offer to split the transaction fees with them if you think the mileage/points is worth it. If nothing else, you can probably get a better rate on the dealership financing by threatening to walk and tell the media about the dealership that doesn't honor its deals...



------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"

This is close to how it works in the US, but not quite ...

You can't charge a surcharge for credit cards, but you can offer a discount for cash.

In some adverts, the discounted cash price is advertised, but if they do that, they always say so in the fine print, something like: advertised price is cash price only. Credit price slightly higher.

It's just a matter of semantics, really. As a merchant, we were not allowed to charge a surcharge, but we could offer a discount. Incidentally, we didn't take Amex or Discover. For us, the fees were slightly higher for these other cards and it wasn't worth it for the type of business we had.

-David

Spiff .. I will speculate here that NO car dealer on earth selling a new vehicle is going to let 3% abort a sale!

On $20K that is $600.

Here merchants on high ticket items like cars get down to 1.5% on Visa and M/Card, so that is $300. We all at the last momeent nearly all will sign only if they "throw in" factory mudflaps, mats, CD player, side striping, or whatever, and this is the last "stinger' to inflict on the salesman. A few $100 is not going to see him let you walk away. He just won't toss in that CD player. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
~ Glen ~

ozstamps,

don't know how it works down under, but in the States, a lot of dealerships can be negotiated down to margins under 5% after dealer holdbacks, rebates, etc., etc., so the 3% can potentially be a big chunk of their profits. Of course, this is predicated on being a sophisticated buyer.

For the buyer who hasn't done his homework, you're probably right.

This is strange that they won't accept the card for season ticket purchases. Me and my buddies all put our Falcons season tickets on our AMEX every year. This year will be over 6,000 HHonor points http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I think I would call them and ask them to join the new millenium. Accepting cards for single game purchases and then not accepting them for larger season ticket type transactions is ludicrous.

Falcon56

In my industry, the trade show business, there are many opportunities to rack up many, many points and miles. So many in fact that some trade show exhibit managers or special events coordinators, seriously consider their ability to earn personal miles and points as a major point in selecting a position.

For instance, they often charge all of their shipping, drayage*, and labor fees to their own AMEX card. These figures can easily exceed $100,000.00 per show for a major exhibit.

Additionally, trade shows by their very nature require travel, sometimes for fairly large groups of people. Often the trade show manager will make the whole block of hotels rooms for his/her company and can pay for them all on his/her own credit card, or cause the purchase of all the airline tickets to go to his or her personal AMEX.

Then, there are coporate meetings. Negotiating for personal perks with a hotel manager when arranging a coporate meeting, has for some become an art form in and of itself. Here again, all of the points and miles are going directly to the account of the meeting planner. 100 rooms for 3 nights, plus all the catering = $$$$$$.

Of course, there are many large companies with government contracts, that forbid the personal accumulation of points and miles from business transactions, but there are also those (frequently the free-wheeling dot.coms) who encourage this practice as a method of wooing top talent to their companies.

So for all you young adventurers out there who are looking for a way to rack up huge number of miles and points and aren't of the ilk to start your own business (another path to big numbers in the miles and points department), don't overlook the trade show industry. Of course, you will like to have to work very, very hard under a great deal of pressure without a great deal of sleep to enjoy this work. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

For those not familiar with this arcane argot:

*drayage: is all the movement of trade show freight from the time it hits the dock at a show until it leaves the dock at the show. This includes moving crates from the dock to the booth space for setup, then moving the empty crates from the booth space into storage durin the show, then from storage back to the booth space for teardown and repack, and then back to the dock for shipment. Just in case you were curious. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Well, even lowly little me bought a car on my Amex for the mileage. Nice little 1998...um, Dodge Caravan.

Don't hate me because i drive a minivan. Hate me for the sweet deal and the 12.5k miles i got for it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

went to jamaica a few weeks ago for the weekend.. on the literature they sent me they said there was a 5% fee added to your final bill if you wanted to settle up your bar bill and tip by credit card.. being the good consumer that i am i called up Citibank and asked them whether this was proper and whether they would make any concessions for one of their platinum card holders.. nope i was told.. they can do pretty much anything they want to once they are outside of the united states..

I am a sales manager for a high end exotic car dealership.

In the past I have, and will continue, to refuse a credit card for "full" payment if it has not been formally discussed in advance of the transaction.

2.75 to Amex is a lot of money on a $150,000 vehicle....and they also take 90 days to pay. The cardholder can also refuse the charge should a dispute arise after delivery. The same applies to Visa and MC.

The company where I work pays out approximately $18-20,000 per month in C/C discount fees to Amex and Visa.........they are not about to cancel our merchant agreement because someone is upset that I won't accept their card for a large amount.



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 01-27-2001).]

Carioca ... well you better toss in that "free" CD player then! BTW what happened to you in RIO for NYE??? Speaking of VISA card bills, just got mine for last month.

I flew out of Brazil on Jan 4th. From Jan 10 to date there were FOUR PAGES of closely typed charges, all in Rio made to my card. About $20,000 in total, as I have a very high credit limit. No idea how it occured, and masses of diff. businesses there involved, even quite a few big hits at Wal Mart there. Gas stations, beauty salons etc. First time this ever happened to me and sounds like a mess clearing it up. I had 2 copies of that Gold card and lost or had one stolen, and have not noticed until now. Hope I am not liable? All future use stopped now of course and new card on way.

------------------
~ Glen ~

Glen.......

I had to follow the pre-arranged NYE plans of my fiance, although barring my internet trouble, I did manage to hook up with Red Robin a day earlier by telephone...........wasn't the rain at midnight fantastic !!!

We were standing at the corner of Avenida Atlantica and Rua Figeuiredo de Magalhaes during the fugos (fireworks) swigging from a bottle of cheap bubbly and absolutely soaking wet from the downpour !!! The crowd was estimated at 2.5 - 3 million Cariocas and gringo touristas like me.

I never bring the C/C's to Rio, just dead President's.............there is way too much fraud there..........gee....I guess you know that by now.



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 01-27-2001).]

Oh yes...BoSoxFan?

I was allowed to pay for my season tickets with a credit card last year...i'm in a 5-person "pool" so we split it that way. I got the miles; i just sent a letter in with my renewal.

This was for the Red Sox, of course. *grin*

Carioca .. yes what a night! I've
just posted a very detailed trip report on this fun experience at:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/001514.html

New Year's Eve in RIO is THE spot of your life to be in!

------------------
~ Glen ~

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 01-28-2001).]

>>2.75 to Amex is a lot of money on a $150,000 vehicle....and they also take 90 days to pay.

Carioca, please tell me Canadian law allows you to consider that 2.75% as a business expense for tax purposes.

In that case, the full effect of the merchant fee isn't felt. It reduces the tax on your profits to the extent of the bracket you are in. Maybe the 2.75 becomes, in net effect, 1.75%, or something.

I positioned this approach for the last 2 Chevy's I bought. I was able to charge something like $5 or $6K of the purchase price to my CO Visa.

carioca: you should call amex.. my payments from them here in the us post electronically within 72 hours of closing the batch.. much slower than the next business day paid by chase on my mc/visa transactions but still notwhere near the 90 days you speak of..

Ronin....

Your accounting scenario is quite right for Canada as well....however, it's still an expense at the end of the month.

We allow up to $10,000 in "unannounced" charges per transaction, as the deposit placed at the time of the purchase is usually 5-10K.

Ozstamps.....

You can pay for the CD player at my cost....and I'll throw in a CD from the musician of your choice....do we have a deal ???

juuceman....

That's interesting......I was just regurgitating what our corporate controller had told us.....I will inquire tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 01-28-2001).]

Outoftown,

In general one has negotiating room under those conditions, but not always.

I was ordering a BMW E46 (the current 3-series design) in early summer of 1999. First US deliveries were scheduled for September. The pipeline was already committed for months. Based on discussions with other early buyers, I consider myself fortunate to have gotten an early slot without paying a premium over sticker price. Negotiate a discount? Not on your life! Why should they, when the line of people ordering them is (figuratively) out the door?

(BTW, the car now has 61,000 miles after 2+ years. I'm delighted with it.)

Carioca .. but WHO then pays the shipping and GST's on CD's?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Re Amex payment to me as a merchant, it is very fast. They would be out of business if it took more than a week - your finance guy might have told you the "90 days" story on April 1 perhaps?

If I as a merchant have an e-terminal money goes into bank account in 24 hours. If I opt for a cheque, it takes about 7 days. Thats not only Amex, but Diners, Visa, M/C etc, and I've had them all for 20 years or so as a merchant.

------------------
~ Glen ~

So true. Want a popular car? Be prepared to pay through the nose. For the really popular items, you can expect to pay an ADMU (Additional Dealer Mark Up). Negotiate? Yes, on how much/little OVER sticker you will pay. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

If you make a sweet deal (x amount under dealer cost + holdback), you're going to probably have to give something back if you want to charge the full amount on a credit card. However, if you pay close to sticker on a not-too-popular car, then the dealer will probably reluctantly let you charge it. It's all about negotiating and almost everything is negotiable when you go car shopping.

------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 01-29-2001).]

Absolutely right. I think the $700 I got (the cost of the Lo-Jack) from flashing the AmEx card was, under the circumstances, pretty good.

I just talked the Red Sox into accepting my Amex for my season tickets, over $4000.

They normally take CC's for single game purchases, but not season tickets.

That now marks my single biggest charge.

That's it? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I put a $5,000 computer on my green American Express card when I was a sophomore in college. Despite what I imagine was not a particularly impressive looking prior spending history (but a perfect albeit short [just 18 months] history of making payments on time), American Express approved the purchase after a short conversation on the phone at the computer store. That was when I didn't have any Visa or Mastercard credit cards with a credit limit over $1,000. That was also long before I realized that it was possible to earn rebates, points, etc. It was long ago enough that such programs weren't nearly as widespread as they are now.

This practice is actually illegal in many states, Florida being one of them. I was socked with one of these add-on fees a few years ago and after checking found that this practice is in violation of Florida statute. So I called the CC company (don't recall which one) and they credited my account. I agree that the key is to have the charge itemized. If the merchant wants to balk, I'm taking a walk.