Guava -

Just a quick correction - UA does have first class lounges at most of their international gateways in the US, and many around the world.

You're right, though, that even 1k or equivalent can't use the F lounges unless they are in F class. If I'm a revenue F passenger, though, I'm pleased by that. Most F class lounges around the world on *A airlines are quite small. If all 1K's were permitted to use UA F class lounges, many of them would be quite overwhelmed. Not that I don't wish *A were like OW in this respect, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Other than the F class lounge rule, the SK BKK lounge and the couple of SQ lounges (won't even start the SQ topic again) what
*A lounges can't *Gold use? E.g., what lounge with ANZ? With ANA? I've generally never had a problem.

Note also, that if you had been an AA Platinum, i.e., the vastly most typical US based oneworld Sapphire passenger, you would not have received Admiral's Club privileges on US domestic flights (correct me, somebody, if I'm wrong on this one).

Greg

I beg to differ, Guava

1. Does an AAdmiral's Club membership get you into all the business class lounges across all member airlines? NO. You do with a Red Carpet Club membership from UA.

2. Does being AAdvantage Plat or EXP get you any better lounge previliges when travelling exclusively domestic than United? NO, you don't get lounge access in both cases.

3. Does being Star Gold get you into every single business class lounges across the Star network bar the SQ lounge in SIN, plus some First Class lounges? YES

4. OW does NOT have less exclusions than Star about lounge access. Most of the restrictions on Star is about access to certain First Class lounges, and nothing prevents any *G members travelling internationally from getting into any of its member's Business Class lounges.
Of course, SQ is an exception, but I'm not sure if they even want to be in an alliance in the first place. They are the most arrogant airline on the planet (well, they do have a right to be, just not when they're in an "alliance").

5. When you mention that *G doesn't get access to lounges in some airlines' hub airports, like ANA in NRT and Varig in GIG/GRU, I hope you did finish reading the guide and found that they were actually restrictions on access to their First Class lounges at their hub airports?

6. Airlines that have F class lounges: Air NZ, ANA, Lufthansa, Singapore, Thai, United and Varig. Now, being *G gets you access to 3 of these airlines' F Class lounges (except at their home-base airports), even when only flying 35000 miles per year. Point: You don't get into ANY F class lounges when being Sapphire on OW.

7. Lounge quality: Mainly personal opinions, but when you go to the Maple Leaf lounges in AC hubs, or to SK's Scandanavian lounges in CPH/ARN, with only being a middle tier on Star, I don't think you have much of a cause of complaint.

I'm sure you notice my conclusion already... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[corrected for UBB codes ONLY]

[This message has been edited by stargold (edited 01-03-2001).]

As the autoher of the original post it's fun to see some traffic http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

First:
To stargold: Not really that important but in order to use the SK lounges (except for the Arlanda Domestic Lounge) you need to be a Top * Tier i.e. Gold. I'm quite sure that's what you meant but the * middle tier is Silver. What is confuzing? Probably the fact that e.g. as a UA PremEx you are a United middle tier but a * Top tier (Gold).

Second:
I think I must agree that as an emerald member of OW you do get better lounge access than a Star Gold. Emerald members get to use all first class and business lounges regardless of which airline they use (they can fly * but still use the OW lounges).

My first goal is to become star gold, however, OW gold seems much harder (difficult).

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Greg,

Thanks for the correction about UA's First Class lounges. By coincidence, I called RCC two days ago to find out if they have a First Class lounge in LAX b/c I will be travelling a revenue F ticket on ANZ (P class) soon but the agent said she doesn't think so. Yes, she was a RCC representative, can you believe it? She said they have somekind of 1K lounge that only 1K members can use. That's how I was under the impression that UA doesn't have First Class lounges. Sorry, I am not very familiar with Star-Alliance yet, I was only 'assimilated by force' not so long ago. As a side note, I also have American Platinum status, just got comped by AA. So, I may still be able to 'rescue' myself out of Star-Alliance if I try.

I am not familiar with the debate over SQ or SAS. I do know that I can't use SAS's lounge in BKK. But why bother, I can use Thai Airways' anyway. I have used SQ's lounge once in Sydney, I had no problem at all. It was an International Business class ticket on Ansett. You know what, I presented my CP Gold card with a big Oneworld logo on it and she said: "Oh, yes you can use it..." then, she checked my card again and said: "just want to make sure it's gold...yep, it's gold so it'all right..." I don't know whatever problem some Star Gold people were having but that's hilarious now I know that those Star Gold people were having trouble. I mean this is funny: "Singapore Airlines accept Oneworld status in their lounge rather than taking Star Gold members."

Greg, you are absolutely right about AA Platinum doesn't get lounge access within U.S. I know that as a fact for a long time and I can confirm that information. By the same token, UA's top tier members can't use RCC within U.S. unless they have RCC membership. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now, looks like I was put on trial by someone. My name had to be put into bold!

Here are my answers:

1) I think they have the rights. But, I can't confrim this information at this time. I went to do a little bit of reserach on their website. The only thing I found out was the announcement that the reciprocal agreement with CP Empress Lounge has ended. Nonetheless, that just shows they have reciprocal agreements with their partners. The only thing I can't confirm is if this applies to all. I will find out. In the meantime, unless you can prove me wrong with written proves, I suggest you refrain using such definitive tone. By the way, your above statement needs some correction. RCC membership DOES NOT get you access to all the business class lounges of all members. Here is one notable exception: ANZ ,no access of International lounge in Auckland. Note Koru Clubs are only Domestic lounges. RCC gets you access to most but not all partner lounges.Source: www.ual.com

What's your point then? They are equal. UA 1K & Co. don't have lounge access within U.S. either. Besides that, I thought we are debating about RCC membership v.s. AA Admiral Club.

See #1 above, I am sorry but you are wrong. Again, please refrain from using such definitive tone when you are not 100% sure of your information. "Every single business class lounges?" Gee...see my response to Greg above, if what you are saying about SQ is true, then appearantly Oneworld Sapphire are having an easier time with SQ than Star Gold members. Isn't that ironic?
By the way, on top of the examples I gave out in #1, here are some more examples from my updated Elite guidebook with Air Canada, which is also Star Gold status: "No lounge access in the following places: ANA->Fuji Lounge and Signet Lounge in Narita, Fuji Lounge in Washington-Dulles, SAS lounge in BKK, SQ in Singapore." Now, I don't know how many other exceptions are out there for Star Gold of other programs, I bet there are several others. Therefore, the quote #3 above is false, not every sinlge business class lounges; there are several exceptions.Source: Air Canada 2000 Elite member guide (updated version as of 01/01/2001)

Really, here is my challenge for you: "I have been doing some research for your questions and statements and will continue to do so for any unanswered parts, here is your turn to
prove me that there is any exclusion for Oneworld Sapphire members of any Business Class lounge that they can't use
anywhere (except of course AA Platinum within the U.S.). Say, take Qantas Silver as your model. You seem to have something against SQ. Perhaps I am an exception, but they seem to welcome Oneworld sapphire though. Are they arrogant? Not from my experience. What evidence do you have to suggest they don't want to join *A at the first place? The only thing I heard was that Thai considered a drop out shortly after SQ came in. Talking about arrogance, don't know about British Airways. It's a long story. Every single time, I have to make them understand that Sapphire can use their Club World or Club Europe lounge. Every single time, they ask me to go to Executive lounge, which I had to refuse and say: "Read your rules." And every single time, they have to say: "Sorry, you can use it; normally we reserve Club World for flying with us only." Gee...that's what I called arrogance. Is the alliance called Oneworld or BritishWorld. By the way, you just reminded me of one thing. Iberia allowed me to use their First Class lounge (Grand Clasé) in Madrid for traveling internationally with BA. That was like 3 weeks after they joined Oneworld. So, I conclude Sapphire status has access to certain First Class lounges too.

I did finish reading my guidebook. Your mistake here again is a definitive term when your information is not accurate. ANA's First Class lounge is the Signet lounge (from my experience in PVG last December). Fuji lounge is not. What about SQ in Singapore? Don't start the complaint about SQ again. It's irrelevant. It is written in my Elite guidebook that I can't use SQ's Business Class lounge in Singapore. That counts I suppose. What about SAS lounge in BKK?

We are almost there, two more questions to go. O.K., if I remember correctly, you are also Star Gold with Air Canada/Canadian based on the fact that you were distributing free system wide stickers valid on Y/M. Let me take time to mention that it is very generous of you if you were indeed the person I am refering to, my memory may be wrong.

Please tell which 3 airlines can Star Gold use F class lounges? From my experience, this varies with each airline. In PVG, Air Canada members cannot use Signet Lounge (First Class) even travelling on Business Class, but United 1K can use it. O.K., I just checked my guide, I suppose the three airlines are Lufthansa, Thai and Varig and or ANA. Let me tell you one thing: I don't think so. It's all theoretical until you actually fly. It's written on my guide that I have access to Signet lounge with ANA and it was not excluded in PVG, yet they didn't let me use it. Note, I was flying on a revenue Executive First ticket! I seriously don't think if I travel on economy class that any of the above airlines would let me use First Class lounges; they would give me their Business Class at best. It also depends on the reciprocal agreements between airlines. On the other hand, I've had experience of using First Class lounge as Sapphire. So what can you say about that? Oh! I forgot! Star Gold includes two tiers in Oneworld: Sapphire and Emerald. It is therefore incorrect and unfair to compare Sapphire and Star Gold on an equal basis. Star Gold's benefits include some of the the top tier benefits, which is not simply a middle tier. Therefore, it is even unacceptable that they are refusing access to ALL First Class lounges, but to only a few of them since that some Star Gold members are actually Top Tier members of their respective programs. In comparison, this just proves my point that Star Gold membership is more general and the benefits are more diluted and only comparable to Sapphire but not to Emerald.

You are right, it's mainly personal opinion. But I beg your pardon, I am not a middle tier on Star. I am Star Gold, TOP tier in Star. Whether one is Super Elite or 1K, it doesn't make a difference. Under Star-Alliance system, we are equal, Star Gold = Star Gold. Do you think SAS in Sweden cares if I am Super Elite or Elite? No, SAS only knows I am Star Gold, Top Tier in Star-Alliance.

Woff...that was long.

Actually (and sadly) not even "b)" seems to work for the Revivals lounge at LHR. According to: http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/main.asp?page=3.1.5

But the other lounges should work.

Whilst us British Midland *G might seem insignificant ( the lady at the SEN lounge in FRA was of that opinion) we get to use the Clubhouse. Its one of the few perks, but its my brand new spanking little LH Sen card that I like most, cos it gts me upgrades. It does make it very difficult when flying to America, as I am meant to fly virgin, but often find myself in Vienna or Frankfurt so i can fly OS or LH and get those miles - I guess thats what the FF programs are counting on. I will get the chance to try Upper Class early feb when I go to Joburg. I wont shave for a few days, so i can get a 'proper' shave - a new experience. I will arrive very very early for that flight.

Jon

Well, Goldlust, Virgin's Revivals lounge at LHR is an ARRIVAL lounge (after immigration and customs) which is a whole different debate.

VS passengers can use the lounge on Upper Class award tickets.

For £25, any arriving passenger can use a similar facility at LHR T3 offered by BAA.

A few years ago, when checking in for a flight back to ATL from Mexico City (coach), the ticket agent noticed I had paid for my ticket with an AMEX card and asked if it was Gold or Platinum (it was) and said I would be able to use the lounge there, which I did. I had forgotten about it until this thread appeared and now am wondering if there are other airport lounges where an AMEX Gold or Platinum card will gain admittance. A check of AMEX's website did not provide any information on this. Anybody know?

I don't know if it is any help but I find the best value lounge access to be the UK Amex Platinum Card. The card costs UKL220 per annum and includes:

Priority Pass (Cardholder FOC and each guest UKL15 - normally $299)
Hilton HHonors Gold
Hertz #1 Gold
Annual Family Travel Insurance (normal UKL160)
Access to Virgin Clubhouse when Flying VS any class
Access to British Midland when flying BM any class
Also access to 1 other (TWA I think?)

I use it all the time when travelling on business but was really impressed when travelling in Y on DL from PBI via ATL to LGW a couple of days ago, that they let me use the Priority Pass to enter me, wife and 2 kids, only logging 1 guest. My kids (2 and 4) were really impressed with the freshly squeezed orange juice and the Nick Junior channel on Direct-TV.

Travelling mostly in the UK internally and to the USA, Priority Pass has full lounge support at LHR and LGW and even lounge support at LUT when flying Easyjet.

In the USA, I have used it to get access to CRC and Ambassadors Clubs. Has anyone else had a similarly good experience of the UK Platinum Card?

Sadly, I take it it's only possible to get this UK Plat Amex card if you actually have a UK address and bank?

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Wow... Nothing personal Guava! Didn't mean to get fiesty or anything, just defending Star http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So... Just a few clarifications...

1. About SQ accepting Oneworld cards in SYD. Remember CP was acquired by AC (a real pain for some, I know). Most (my favourite word now http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif) Star lounges would have got a notice that they should accept Canadian Plus cards as being same level as AC. So, Gold=Elite and EP=SE as of 1JUN. This is why you got into the lounge in SYD. If you tried to enter using your AA card, or tried to enter using CP Gold at their SIN lounge even after 1JUN, you would have been turned away. I, too, have used the SQ lounge in NRT, KIX and LHR. The lounge I was talking about when mentioning "exceptions" was the one in Singapore. Most others are fine about giving access to *Gs.

2. When you mention that I was wrong by saying "every single business lounge across star, except for SQ", and quote examples such as "ANA Signet and Fuji lounges in NRT and SK BKK Lounge", I can't help mentioning that Signet and Lounge Fuji are both First Class lounges of ANA. The SK lounge in BKK... the one you can't get access to being *G is the Scandanavian lounge. *G still gets access to SK Business lounge. So... anything else?

4. Your example using CP cards getting you into SQ lounges is false in the first place, because your CP Gold was actually *G as of 1JUN. If you check out threads in SQ forum and Star forum (don't have the time to provide the links, but it's there), a fair number of Star flyers did think SQ was arrogant and that SQ didn't want to join Star in the first place. Your point about BA is taken, but peronally I don't think the lack of knowledge of rules can be counted as an example of arrogance. Likewise, your experience with IB could have been a misunderstanding of rules. Not saying it definately is, just suggesting it could have been. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

5. Please allow me the honor of letting you know http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif that Lounge Fuji is ANA's First Class lounge. Signet is also their First Class lounge. They are in a process of converting Fuji lounges into Signet, changing the atmosphere into a much lighter and casual one, but this is besides the point, and so they want to differentiate the two types of First Class lounges. Of course, SQ¡'s Silver Kris lounge in SIN is a recurring theme and I already have acknowledged that it is an exception so I won't mention it again. So is the SK Scandinavian lounge in BKK. See above.

5.5 Yes, it was indeed me who was distributing SYS and NA upgrades. Thank you for your compliment.

6. The three airlines I was referring to was LH, NH and RG. Ask any *G flyer if they get access to the SEN lounge (their First Class lounge) in FRA (their hub airport... I think http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif) and the answer is likely to be yes. Yes, even when they are flying Economy. I have used the ANA Fuji Lounge (their First Class lounge) in KIX, also flying on an Economy ticket. So you say *G doesn't get access to First Class lounges just because you were turned away at Signet in PVG? You could have tried so many other airports and they would have let you into their respective SEN lounge, Lounge Fuji and Signet, and RG First Class lounges, just not at PVG, probably just not when that particular lounge attendant is on duty.

About comparing Star Gold and OW Sapphire. So you think it's practical to promise Top Tier members on Star, First Class priority all the way when more than half of Star airlines don't HAVE first class? Just how would you go about providing AC First Class lounge access for a 1K member, when there IS no First Class lounge in AC because they don't have First Class? How about some First Class boarding priority on AN?

And I honestly can't understand your point about the last paragraph so I await further clarifications as to what you were trying to say about why it should make a difference to SK whether you're E or SE.

You've already mentioned that you were 'made to switch' to Star, and that you are unfamiliar with various aspects of Star. Please, don't try to teach me Star stuff. I am already very aware of various rules and exceptions thanks to my Star employee's guide. If you think, 'Oh, but it's just what it says in writing, it doesn't happen in real life', why don't you ask the SElite desk for a copy of the Star Products and Services, and just show the book to lounge attendants who won't let you enter. So far, I didn't have to do that, because none of them gave me any trouble. But I do carry a copy around when I travel.

Whoa, that was pretty long too.

-stargold-