Worst Business/First
 

There is a thread on the best. I would like to know what FTers' opinions on the worst, so that I can avoid .... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Happy New Year to you all. It's already 2001 here in Tokyo.

I had a domestic flight and my only flight on CZ (China Southern) in C where my seat rocked. I don't think it was supposed to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif !

Asking for an Ice cube for your warm coke was the equivalant of asking them if they had the Hope dimaond!

American Airlines' transcon business class in 767-300s: a fully reclined seatback in front of you squashes your tray (no room for beverage glasses, computer, etc.) and traps you in your seat.

BTW, I would appreciate route-specific comments, as I do not believe airliens can deliver uniform/consistent services. While I really love CX, the worst ever business food I ever had was CX TPE-HKG in Nov.

I believe that 0524 is referring the AA's transcon domestic 767-200's (approx 40" pitch). The 767-300's have a 48" pitch and 60" pitch (those reconfigured to MRTB). The int'l 767-200's have a 50" pitch.



[This message has been edited by AAPlatinum (edited 01-02-2001).]

Speaking domestics - my vote is TWA! And I know it was a typo - but I love the new term "airliens" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I've had those FA's !

SK on their non-refurbished 767-300 intercontinental flights. the service is quite good as is the food however the seats themselves are ancient and not too comfortable either. inflight entertainment is limited to the main cabin screen or sony watchman's - i.e. no in seat video.

until they replace these seats or ontroduce their A330 and 340's I would avoid SK longhaul business if an alternate is available.

also, avoid Air India on any sector served by Airbus aircraft as these planes are badly in need of updating. the 744's arent too much better either.

I cannot reference too many airlines FC or business class; but I would make a recommendation on an aircraft to avoid.

The 737 (particularly the older ones) are not as good in FC as the Airbus or 757. Newer 737s are allright. The 737s cannot come close to a 777 or 747.

Thanks for the important correction, AAPlatinum.

My vote goes to the many intra-European flights where business class has the same pitch and same seat width as economy. The extra Euros for C get you drinks, sometimes food, a departure lounge, and a shorter walk from the airplane door to your seat.

Whoop whoop.

Any FC flight on America West. HP's F is like flying Southwest with an assigned seat number and 'pleather' coating on top of hard plastic.

I once bought a round-trip business-class ticket on Balkan Bulgarian Airlines between Sofia and New York (they mercifully no longer fly this route). The plane was one of their leased 767s, and the fare was quite attractive. When I got on the plane I saw that the seats, pitch, etc. were exactly the same in C as in Y, which the FA cheerfully acknowledged. The only difference was being in the front, having fewer people around me, being served by the cheerful FA, and having a somewhat better meal, although the snack before landing at JFK was served with plastic knife and fork. All this for about $300!

I'm trying to select a preferred carrier for 2000; I've been looking at Northwest. I bought a 60 day trial WorldClub membership and tried a ConnectFirst (full fare coach, auto upgrade to first class) fare from MSP to Fort Wayne, IN on the 28th...

Here was my experience:

MSP - DTW
1. WorldClub closest to gate was closed due to weather problems, they were using it as some sort of a rebooking center for other customers.

1. Nice wide seat on a DC-10. It was directly in front of a couple and their screaming infant.

2. No greeting by FC FA.

3. No offer to take my coat. I eventually put it in the overhead compartment.

4. No offer for a pre-takeoff beverage or snack while the flight was being delayed for two and a half hours waiting for a tug, waiting in line for de-icing and waiting for our turn to take off.

5. After we were airborne, there was the standard cart beverage service. Alcohol was offered, so were a few types of nuts. I had a 7up and honey roasted nuts.

6. Snack service was a ham and cheese sandwich in a bag with some cookies and crackers. Kind of like AA's bistro service, only we had to wait for FA's to deliver it to us.

7. Since the flight was late because the crew was late because they were coming from a plane diverted to Duluth due to mechanical problems, plus the above delays - I was 80 minutes late for the connecting flight. Ticket agent said there wasn't anything they could do because it was weather related. I asked about discount accommodations due to weather delays, she said it wasn't their policy to provide any assistance for weather related problems. I showed her the page in their customer guide where it mentions discounted accommodations for weather related delays, she returned with a voucher for the Ramada. She joked that I needed to get rid of the customer guide.

8. Ramada van arrives with the parking vans, not the hotel vans - so I watched from the hotel van area as the Ramada van arrived at the parking van area. I ran to the parking area and missed the van until it returned 20 minutes later. Van driver didn't provide any assistance with bags.

9. Ramada front desk says, "Sign here" in same breath as he says, "next in line" to next guest. Didn't tell me I had to also turn in phone voucher in order to get my phone turned on. Went back to front desk with phone voucher, then to hotel dining room where they were closing in 10 minutes and were out of everything except for chicken fingers.

MSP - FWA:
1. DTW WorldClub was open. I snacked on a bagel and had some OJ. Watched some TV.

2. Gate agent didn't give off typical NWA Soviet aura. Older lady, super professional and friendly with everyone. Smiled more than most NWA employees I've dealt with. Helped rebook passenger who just missed her flight at a neighboring gate. Wrote her name down for a comment card... Actually, I asked her for a comment card but she didn't know where I could find one. I used the one at the back of the customer guide document. When I boarded the flight I gave her an extra 120-minute pre-paid calling card as a token of my appreciation.

3. Bulkhead seat, decent recline but not much legroom.

2. To my surprise, the FA asked if I would like something to drink. She seemed put-off by my acceptance of her offer. I had a 7up.

3. No offer to take my coat, although she was putting coats away for members of the crew.

4. Other FA was chewing bright green gum, visible to everyone within 2,000 feet. Strutting up and down the aisle, throwing her hair back.

5. Although beverage service was displayed on the reader board at the gate, FA made announcement that there would be no beverage service due to the "short duration of the flight".

6. Arrived to FWA earlier than scheduled.

I don't really care about being in FC just for the sake of FC, especially if FC is just like flying coach. I just want some decent service.

I have always enjoyed Alaska Airlines; their coach is better than NW's FC. Too bad I can only use AS between ANC and ORD.

I think Midwest Express might be worth a try, it might be worth the drive to MKE from where I live near ORD. Have any of you tried it yet?

-Robert

By all means try Midwest. You will think that you have died and gone to heaven. It's no accident that CondeNast rates them at 80.5% customer satisfaction. Forget Northworst if you can use Midwest.

Just as i rate SK high on econ service, their C-class product is inferior. On intra-european routes pitch and width of seats are the same as in Y. Intercontinentally, as mentioned by Indogulf, they are way overdue for a refurbishing/interior overhaul of their 767's.

Rwinn: FA didn't take your coat! No offer of a welcome drink! Snack is only ham and cheese in a bag! A crying infant! I wish you a happy new year, and may all your flights be no worse than this "flight from hell" you describe.

First class on an USAirways MD-80 is barely better than coach on any other plane.

See the first part of my trip report about SK intercontinental and intra-europe in C. The seats on at least one side of the 737 were wider in C: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/001293.html

While I've had some NW experiences like those posted by rwinn above, I'd like to share one to balance the books a bit.

I was returning from Singapore to Manchester, N.H., this past July on a deeply discounted economy ticket ($1,246 round trip). The last leg of the weird routing I needed to take for that fare involved a JFK-LGA ground transfer. I asked the SIN folks (standard check-in, I am not elite with NW) if they could fix things up. They did, routing me via MSP and DTW.

I boarded the airplane happy.

About ten minutes later, just before they closed the doors, one of the gate crew found me in my seat and said "We've been able to improve your routing so you'll get home two hours earlier." With that she handed me new boarding passes.

This was done AFTER I had left the counter, AFTER they had done all I asked, AFTER they had made me happier than I expected to be, without the slightest request on my part, and requiring a voluntary effort on theirs.

It may just be Singapore, but at least that part of NW is more than OK in my book!

I would say that service in First Class on NW domestic is erratic. I've had excellent service, poor service and no service. I continue to favor UA over Northwest. I've hardly ever experienced poor or no Service in first class on United. All airlines seem to have the "disappearing flight attendant syndrome", but there appears to be a regular practice of the FA's "hiding" behind the curtain in the galley on Northwest. I haven't seen this on UA.

I do think that Northwest First Class seats are poor. They provide no lumbar support and many of them seem to be falling apart. I've noticed this on the DC9,757 and A320 especially.

My worst experience?
Hmm, will probably be one of the 20.50 domestic departures in Sweden.
I guess SK somehow figures that 20.50 is too late for dinner, so instead of the pretty nice dinner one gets at the 18.30 departure, on the 20.50 you get an awful "smörgås" (kind of a sandwich) - it's extremely fat with some kind of strange (and fat) filling, and it tastes like crap.

SK has no business class on domestic flights. You can buy a business ticket - but you're still seated in eco.

Also as a tea drinker it's very annoying that you have to sit on guard and SCREAM at the FA when she passes and whispers "tea anyone" - if you don't scream or take other drastic action you're not likely to get tea...

SK has good sides too - but this thread was for the bad ones, so...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
Goldlust

re NWA:

I haven't had the poor experiences in F that others have had. I've had unimpressive service and food, but nothing actually offensive to my dainty senses http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

once on a ConnectFirst fare I missed the last plane from DTW to MSP because I forgot that DTW is in the eastern time zone and relied on my watch instead of the airport clocks. I stayed at a crappy Romulus, MI motel and got up for the first flight out, on a DC-10. at check-in I was told F was full and was given a Y boarding card. I went and retrieved my bag from the locker and while in queue to board the gate agent walked up and presented me with an F boarding card and a big ol' smile. she actually remembered me!

a few weeks ago I'd booked a trip MSP-IAH-SFO on CO for the miles. the return was a hellishly early 6am and nobody at CO would do a thing to change it (my fault anyway as I booked it online and wasn't paying attention to the return). upon checkin at MSP with CO was told to check in with NW (the MSP-IAH leg was on NW metal). the nice lady at the Elite counter was able to not only get me on a later return flight but booked it on a non-stop (at that poing I didn't care about the miles) back to MSP in F on a DC-10 (the only way to fly F on NW domestic) even though I'd bought the ticket from CO. the meal on that flight was outstanding as was the service.

My worst experiences have been on SK and AY.

As some here have already metioned SK has no biz class on domestic flights even though it sells way overpriced tix for it. There is no warning that domestic flights are first board - best seat basis. Short haul international codeshare flights are even worse. There appears to be no warning about a codeshare and you find out about it often at boarding time only.

AY, is IMO a little better than SK on short haul international flights but if having what they consider an extra perk of cold blizzard coming through the door on their turboprop for the best seats on the plane (biz class exit row) then they better reconsider. The service is also very impersonal with FA-s ignoring English language questions/wishes. They seem to think that everyone on their planes speaks Finnish and speaking English is just a "tall-poppy" syndrome unless you are dressed in football colors and are drunk and rowdy (British football hooligan).

Their international (non trans-Atlantic) service is also very disappointing with VERY poor and impersonal service, very limited pitch, poor food, no personal monitors and even lack of blankets! I hope that I will never fly them on long haul flights again!

I have to agree with others who have trashed SAS. I flew on them last year only because they are part of *Alliance (so I could get UA miles). While I was sitting in coach the whole way, they screwed up many aspects of the service, including my wife's request (made weeks in advance) for a special meal. They didn't have the special meal on 3 of the 4 flights. I got a look at the business section on the 767s. It was a joke -- no better than the domestic first class seats on UA's old DC-10s. And as for intra-European flights, the "business" class was coach with a curtain. Same seats. Same pitch. Maybe the food was a little better but, come on. Next time I fly to Europe it will be in business class and it will either be on UA or Lufthansa -- but never again on SAS.

I flew SAS quite a bit in 1999 between LHR and GOT. The business seats were indeed very close and uncomfortable but I guess the fact that business and coach seats have the same pitch appears to be the norm on intra-European flights. Service was nothing exceptional and I remember asking a check-in agent in Sweden about what precisely constitutes the difference between business and economy. He thought about it for a few seconds and then replied quite accurately, "the price." I was also somewhat amazed that the shabby MD80 that had been deployed on this route had no entertainment whatsoever, not even audio.

Worst transatlantic premium class: US Airways' Envoy class on the two-class 767-200. (I've previously railed on this on the US board.) Lousy food, poor entertainment options (three movie choices and a couple of looping television/sports choices - very weak for transatlantic premium service), broken reading lamp (it was *always* on). Seat recline and legroom were average. Service was average. The winelist consisted of a chard, a cab, and a chablis, all in the $15/bottle (retail) category. Except the chablis...it was probably about $10 per bottle.

Note: Other US FT'ers were quick to point out that Envoy on the A300 is a *much* better product, particularly as far as the entertainment and seats go. Apparently, A300 Envoy has been significantly enhanced beyond 767 Envoy. Also, in defense of US Airways, I've found their narrowbody F to be much more consistent than TW, NW, or HP, and on par with AA and UA.

Midwest Express sidebar: Anyone who has the opportunity to do so should try this airline. It's an entirely different experience from traveling on the major airlines, from the friendliness of the gate agents to the lack of long lines at the airport to the wide seats to the food/drink service throughout the aircraft. The FF program is very basic, but it's a trade-off I'll make anytime I'm flying a coach fare in one of their markets.

Worst Business Class for me was TransAtlantic SAS Copenhagen to Seattle in a "Sleeper Seat" which was an additional US$600. The plane was old and rickety. The food was bad. The flight attendants were surly. The cabin was huge and crowded.

For first class, Air France gets my vote for CDG-SFO. Their featured meal was ground veal "a l"Alpo" (my description. The glassware came in one shape, two sizes no matter whether for water, champagne, beer, or juice. At least the FAs were very friendly contrary to their reputation.

Long live LH & SQ in First!

Nobbi

My vote would go to any United 767 in business. The seats are too narrow for comfort.

I have gone near and far and among my rankings:

Worst international business-
This is a tie- Swiss Air or British Airways.
Although both have impeccable service, I got a middle seat twice. If you are in business, you should be next to a window or an aisle. Apart from the middle seat, both lose more points. SwissAir only has personal videos on their Airbus and their games and entertainment pale in comparison to Virgin Atlantic's and CO 777. British Airways has an interesting business class set up where your seats make a bed and you are diagonal to your seat mate and in my case, had smelly feet.

Their economy class is nice as is their amenities package (how hard is it to convince some american carriers that you might need a toothbrush on an overnight flight?)

Worst domestic first
- Hands down it would have to be Delta. 2 class trans con service is terrible. 767 is a nice aircraft but first class along with the 727 and 757 are old and need seat upholstering and new interiors. However, Delta's biz elite is very good.

If you use that criteria, the only widebody-operating airlines that would stay in the running (operating widebodies) would be those who operate 767s & A-300/310/330/340s. Just about every single airline that operates 747s and 777 (and most DC-10/MD-11) have 7-abreast in business class on the main deck (unless it's located in the nose on the 747).

WorldBanker,
I haven't yet flown on a new BA Club World bed. From what you (and others) say about smelly feet, I am increasingly hoping that my next flight in Club stays with with the Cradle seats.

As far as my worst Business Class is concerned, it has to be Club Europe on BA (and I suppose all other intra-European Business classes). Seat pitch is the same as economy and the seats slide to convert from a 3-3 config in Econ to a 3-2 in Business.

[This message has been edited by salt (edited 01-04-2001).]

AOM is pretty terrible in Business. The seats are tight (but no where near the tightness of the economy section, which should be renamed "Turkish Prison Class"), and the service was the worst I ever encountered.

This flight was LAX-PPT.

Aeroflot has THE worst First Class service! Flew them last year from SVO (Moscow) to PKC (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Siberia). All passengers had to carry their own baggage to the aircraft and place each bag in a rack that was then loaded into the aircraft. Upon arrival in PKC, the luggage was dumped on the tarmac and each passenger had to “claim” their own bag. The “First Class” experience included (but was not limited to):

 Rude FA’s
 A “meal” that included a small sandwich with some type of “meat.”
 18 years old pilots who’d rather sit in the “comfortable” first class seats than the cockpit.
 A cramped cabin filled with heavy smokers.
 An 8-hour delay on departure from SVO (why? Who knows?!?).
 Broken seats and inoperative seatbelts
 Cheap vodka
 A decrepit old Ilyushin IL62 that smelled like it was on fire.
 Broken lavatory facilities

Avoid Aeroflot….I had not choice, who else flies to Siberia!

I'm a bit surprised that no one has nomiated Pakistani Airlines for this award http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif . They seem to be pretty "popular" in another thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Uzbeckistan airways.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003906.html

if u have read this thread...your could proabably save this topic