I am BLOWN away no one @ Webflyer has posted a comment regarding this.

This board is a VERY valuable resource for them. If I owned it I would be paying a h*lluva lot more attention to it.

Imagine if a competing board popped up...offering miles every now and then for compelling posts and 'scoops'. I would bet it would be very hard on FT. (IMO)

Randy and crew really need to screw a person down on FT....so they know what is being talked about! Don't get me wrong...I VERY much appreciate this board...and am VERY happy Randy provides it...BUT if I owned it I would now be protecting it.

Rumours such as ones posed in this thread are easily killed with less than three sentences. I would certainly want this one dead.

All IMO! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

If in fact this was an imposter who broke in and set up a private room, then they probably broke a bunch of laws related to hacking. In that case I would think that Randy would contact the FBI who would tell him not to comment on the situation while they check things out. I'm not one bit surprised by the silence.

Well, OK, I think that it's time for a word from our guru of miles, Randy, to check in and tell us the straight scoop.

Was it real, or was it just Memorex (c)?

You know.....this is the exact type of thread the 'old timer clique' avoids! I love it....none of the people who have been around a 'long time' will ever take a stand.....unless ofcourse it this issue directly involves them! Whimps. Take a stand.

IMO

Dorian



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

I'm sorry Dorian, but as an "old-timer" I don't see what it is I should take a stand about. Could you explain it to me? Or why I am obligated to take a stand? Is anyone paying me to post here?

Personally I don't see any advantage to feeding the rumor, nor do I see a situation that requires some sort of urgent action.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I tend to think "Well, Randy's probably working on some sort of formal apology to those who participated."

I for one am confident that we will have an answer in due course, and I for one am certainly not going to be losing any sleep over this.

I actually thought it was all kind of funny. That screen was scrolling faster than I could read the darn thing. When RanFlyer showed up and could not establish his credentials, I just bailed. Early on.

My apology to Randy if RanFlyer was him. I'm sure he'll understand.

It is interesting that so many people come up with so many theories and conspiracy ideas, and it is all so readily solved with a single phone call, as we see in Davidlee's post "It Was Randy". We should understand by now that neither Randy nor Flyertalk answer quickly or "off the cuff" when there is mass confusion or controversy... as witness the Delta upgrade change issue and even the second Latin Pass "visit" this summer. Perhaps it is best that he takes the time to think something through and is selective in the use of his comments.

Well - that's some baiting there...

In response, I can only explain that I've resigned myself to the fact that Flyertalk will never be as good as it was, or as good as it could have been. Up till this one, I've restricted my posts of late to topics about flying, miles and points.

Now I understand a little better why Onefreeman just said none of this was worth it and gave-up Flyertalk for good. Look around and see how many other "old timers" post little or nothing lately.

Never mind us...you all just go on and argue about internet imposters, live chats, unworthy ethnicities, and all of these other terrific Flyertalk topics of late. The real frequent flyers will be at the airport and in the skys as always.

I logged on at the very end - I just had gotten in.

Found a lot of posts happening very fast, was unsure of what it was all about.

Dorian,

Take a stand on what?

This was all conjecture. Some of us where simply patiently awaiting the explaination that we knew would occur.

Click the back button and look up. You will see the "Official" explaination from FT.

Wow! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Thank you very much for the explanation, Randy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm extremely sorry for the difficulties and confusion. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

Needless to say, no disrespect intended! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Please accept my most humble apologies for misreading and misinterpreting the situation and for likely causing you further aggravation!

WOW. This board has been around how long? And we talk about old timers? Lots of us just found it and have been reading for awhile without posting. If all you old-timers have so many miles and are so important, why are you showing up on chat-boards yelling "where are the miles". I would be afraid to post anything good because it would be in the wrong place or had already been posted. Some of you guys are quite mean-spirted and I know you will soon be telling I am posting in the wrong place or that this has already been posted.

Well, as a newbie here, I guess I can be expected to Common guys, get a life. I can't believe the carping about this whole thing.

If live chats with a fast scroll bother you then why did you stay? If you thought that RanFlyer was an imposter then why did you stay or respond to the questions? If you need to get "paid" in miles for your time in a chat then you need might want to reevaluate what's really important in your life.

I found the whole thing interesting, especially the side comments of the doubters (except UALover7 but that's what the ignore key is for). RanFlyer conducted a coherent chat after the survey session including giving some feedback on his actions in the Delta situation. Was this the folly of an imposter? I neither know nor care.

IMHO, the life of the frequent flyer is enough of a hassle without stressing out over something as trivial as a bulletin board chat session.

FWIW.

- Bob

There is so much of stereotyping from some (but not all) folks here (on both sides of the cliques) it is disgusting. I am on this board from day 1. I rarely take part in chats - I was not in this one. Calm down guys and take a deep breath.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 09-28-2000).]

Breathing deeply! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Thanks for the great advice PG! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I missed it. where is this official explanation?

..."Our tech department will bring you up-to-date on the fact that the compnay that provides the technology of the chat session decided, without notice, to release their new version of the software that night which made the version we use unavailable. We didn't know and it was a real problem. Also the fact that many people wanted to engage in "Private Chat" which wasn't possible to any real degree because of all the people on line that night. We only selected a small number of FTers and it was our luck that most of you had nothing else to do. We thought we'd have 18-24 people which would have been a nice group, try 140 aggitated FTers which we don't blame, but consider how I felt with technology that didn't work, no one else in the building but me and all but Dan not home to help and none could have known about the software change anyway. A night to forget I hope for most of you, for me, it will be a night I'll never forget. We are accounting for the miles to all those who attented that night and posted a response to any question."

-Randy Petersen

doorman, yu intirtane arturo.

oziewyzerd, jus doo wat enstruckshun sey! yu'll find et.

------------------
Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

FOlks, I am also considered an old timer but I decided NOT to respond because the whole experience was frustrating enough I decided "WHY STRESS" and move on to something else.

We so called veterans can't respond to anything and sometimes silence can be even more powerful (it's one thing I need to learn!)

RANDY, sorry about the technical problems. It's like when I'm left to do new tech stuff on our station web site all alone -- and have only one minute of training!

Well....

DOC..sorry, did not see any such info anywhere.

Sorry if I offended any out there. Went back and read what I wrote and still stand by it...though maybe I could have phrased it better (I had just finished a big argument with some friends...but that is not excuse!)

Still friend?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

Well....

DOC..sorry, did not see any such info anywhere.

Sorry if I offended any out there. Went back and read what I wrote and still stand by it...though maybe I could have phrased it better (I had just finished a big argument with some friends...but that is not excuse!)

Still friends?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

Everyone! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Curiousity do NOT kill the CAT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Sometimes we are too outspoken perhaps!

Sometimes we are too silent perhaps!

So we are NOT perfect! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Welcome to the club! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Have a great weekend everyone! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

-Mark

You guys are awesome... I was wondering if it was technical. The worse possible thing is getting locked out of your own system http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Totally bizarre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with a straight-forward survey?

--------------------------------------------

Oh yes....SHOW ME THE MILES!!

[This message has been edited by papachuck (edited 09-29-2000).]

Just got back into town and am thrilled to learn that it was technical problem - thrilled because (A) it means the mystery is solved and (B) murphy visits someone other than my technology company!

Sorry that you had to go through that, Randy - and sorry we were so hard on you in times of trouble!

Ozstamps,

It actually should have said: "click the back button two times".

The explaination is at the top of each forum. This is where Webflyer posts notices.

Anyone interested in the "Official Explanation" can now find it here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum75/HTML/000015.html

I've removed it from the announcements to make room for the next hot topic.

Thanks for your support.

------------------
ThanX...
Michael at WebFlyer



[This message has been edited by Michael at WebFlyer (edited 09-29-2000).]

I'm troubled by the following from Randy:

"We only selected a small number of FTers and it was our luck that most of you had nothing else to do"

I think thats a bunch of BS.
Only selected a small number? You invited everyone that was registered? You didnt do any selection at all. So how can you say you selected a small number of FTers? This sounds like and out and out lie.

Personally, I'm very disappointed at the handling of this. We basically were asked a few survey questions? Why couldn't everyone been emailed those questions?
Why did it take so long for an offical posting on FT explaining all of this?

Why couldn'ty Randy post of FT before logging on as Ranflyer? Ceratinly this would have been proof of identity. Considering many people questioned whether it was Randy, the absense of such proof only added to the confusion. Instead we were left to day of festering with regard to the chat, flyertalk and what was happening. This certainly was not good for Flyertalk. It also seemed to bring to the surface the old-timer vs. newbie issue(I'll leave that debate to others).

Certainly, at a minimum, Randy could have posted an explanation immediately after the chat to flyertalk, I think the 140 or so flyertalkers who braved the chat experience deserved at least that. At least we could have gone to sleep knowing that it was a technical glitch.

I for one received phone calls from 2 flyertalkers during the chat, wondering what was happening.

Frankly, I think we deserved a little more respect. We certianly should have been given more information then we received, and been given it in a more timely manner.

Boomer, I have no idea who got emailed. Many of us certainly did, but on the other posts I have seen many users, old and new who clearly say they did not get any notification, so not sure your point is terribly fair based on that!

------------------
~ Glen ~

Ozstamps: In his announcement Dan at Webflyer said "we had sent an email out to all registered FlyerTalkers to invite them to participate", therefore I think Boomers comment is entierly fair.

Dorian: Maybe one of the reasons old timers don't comment (if your assertion is correct) is that we are too long in the tooth to care less about this kind of stuff. Personally every time I hear the word "guru" I want to chuck-up. I am sure Randy is a fine man and a successful businessman, but the shameless self publicity is a massive turn-off for me.

I know some of you will criticise me for saying anything negative about our host, but maybe a few more people are realising that this board has a commercial purpose and is not some kind of great philanthropical gesture.

My view is that Boomer is entierly correct, if the pay back for this board is a survey - fine, e-mail it to us and let us respond. But why the hell some of you guys want to kneel down is homage to the great "guru" is beyond me.

Nick

Agreed totally, as a NEWBIE (yes, I confess)... I haven't had the chance of getting any advices yet from Randy, I'm sure WHEN he speaks his advice is as that from any guru but up till now the people I have learnt a lot from are the ever popping up names like Doc, Merry, ozstamps etc..etc..

To be honest I find the hommages many of you bring to Randy a bit strange in light of the large amount of other knowledge on this board, let's face it, the total amount of revenue the members of this board bring to the AL's is probably more than most 3rd world countries have to spend in a year..

Scott

Merry and Scott. Had a lovely dinner with Randy here in Sydney this month:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000231.html

I must say spending a few hours with him changed entirely what my preconceptions had been. YES he has 30 something staff, so YES Frequent Flying matters is a BIG business for him. He outlined areas to me he is involved in that would surprise many here. And I feel someone who can employ that many staff ENTIRELY on frequent flyer related areas does make him a GURU of the genre, judged by the clear success of the venture he started from nothing but an idea. No other person or company in the world comes close to what he does.

He told me he got into this 20 years ago with a few $1000 capital and grew it from there on a wing and prayer. Good on him - a self made success.

To be flying around all over (I recall him mentioning 250,000 miles in a year) at his OWN expense is a sign of high principles. He mentioned a $ figure to me he spends on his personal air travel that sure surprised me. A great deal of it in coach. This man could I am sure expect gratis First worldwide from most carriers by simply making a call, but said it does not allow him to be as objective as he otherwise could be, and he confirms that on the thread above. I admire that. He chose to go on the Latin Pass run as he thought it sounded like fun. He paid for the coach tickets and suffered the same hassles and frustrations as all others here who flew it. Great stuff, and flying and points and deals are still in his blood it seems very much to me.

I imagine it is no news to anyone reading these boards that I am no sycophant or "yes man" to anyone. However, I really think Merry's comment above about Randy's "shameless self publicity" is way off. If anything Randy in my view does NOT plug his money making areas virtually at all on these boards. Indeed, if you do not visit www.webflyer.com the money making core of what he does is not evident at all.

He told me a $ figure this board costs him annually and even with the few paid banner ads he says he is substantially behind dollar wise. And he also said he would not dream of changing things as he regards the 1000s of users on this board as his instant research lab, and sounding post for what is wrong and right in his core business area. These boards are the real-time pulse rates of the airlines and Hotel plans. He among other things is a consultant to many areas. Knowing what we like and do not like makes him money.

We are wittingly or unwittingly his cross section and voice, for or against recent Corporate policies. Witness the Delta forums link at top of every airline forum page of FT right now. I have never flown Delta, but a core of those here have managed to speak for the entire Delta Flyer membership it seems. And by their actions Delta may well water down the unpopular changes, whatever they were. And if that hapapnes, a lot of Delta fliers certainly will regard Randy as THEIR Guru methinks!

Just my 2¢ from the Olympic City.

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-30-2000).]

Merry,

The point I was more or less trying to make is a point I chatted about at the Toronto Red Green event.

I was complaining that when rumours and things got out of hand I had hoped that some of the more respected individuals on this board would come forward and make a clear(er) statement as to their thoughts. (Okay, I know there have been exceptions.)

I TRY to speak up (although not an old timer...having only read this board since early '99) but I am always aggressive and often an a*sh*le in my statements (Catcop, sorry!).


I do agree with both you and Boomer in the fact that this is a great commercial resource for Randy. He can get such great info. from a concentrated resource...and SELL it for $$$. Imagine trying to write an article or find new information without this board???? I'm sure it requiring staffing up considerably.

I wrote on some other thread the other day about this being a business resource that if I owned I would work more diligently to keep going smoothly (ie: stamp out this thread right at the start with a clear statement). I can't find where I wrote it now.....maybe it didn't post???

Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate Randy running this board at "his cost". Although I have never met him he seems like an okay guy. Also, I do know this is a great asset to him and his organization and will eventually require more professional management.

IMO,

Dorian

(from the Baltic States!)



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

Wow! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Many interesting points have been raised here by Dorian, Ozstamps, Merry and Boomer.

We FT'ers are collectively a very diverse and an even more extraordinarily demanding group.

Indeed Randy is one of us - and yet he is NOT really - due to his unique position.

My assesment, like always, comes from putting myself in his/their position.

This was an unfortunate situation for ALL those involved.

Yet, a case of miscommunication, which is apparently what transpired, is not necessarily a lie. I do not think it was purposeful or done to achieve any unwarranted gain.

Randy, IMHO, could/should have initially made a statement either at the chat and or in the post chat buzz in respone to queries regarding his identity. Why he did not, I do not know! Perhaps he was, (and I do not as you know speak for him), extremely preoccupied on his end and did not even read the queries coming in!

A statement immediately following would have been the next best bet and would have enabled others such as myself to be more responsive to those who had asked me about the identity crisis!

Could their have been better and more timely communication within the FT administration ranks and also to we FT'ers? YES!

Is their a commercial aspect to the boards? SURELY!

Yet, Randy has proven himself in the past many times over to be quite knowledgable and generous and so on...

His unfailingly cordial responsive nature and the seeming absence of such on that fateful chat night is what lead me and others to suspect that something was amiss!

Our collective expectations are quite high and thus we are apt to occasionaly be dissapointed in our host!

Let's all please "cut 'em a little slack!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Albeit belated, there was an apology from Randy and Co and I hope we can all accept it, learn from the situation, put it behind us in the hope that it will NOT happen again.

Let's ALL move ahead in good spirits! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

to me this is the crux of the matter. tech glitches are a fact of life for those of us who live and die by computers <G> so the lateness and odd chatname are understandable. but to not give us some way of knowing we were in the presence of 'the real thing', and to post no response for so long to the mkany queries here, made no sense.

i find this board extremely helpful and appreciate randy's, and the regulars', contributions very much. (and thanx michael for the eventual clarification). just wish there had been more thought to the time and effort we'd put in. i'm certainly ready to move on, and hope we'll have another opportunity to respond to surveys in the future.

I agree with Merry, infact I seem to think that his participation decreased once he realized the commercial (vs consumer) nature of Inside/Webflyer.

I have met Randy at a FT get together, and he is a great guy. I once used to eagerly anticipate the monthly issue of Inside Flyer, but now I read it sporadically. This board is a great resource (despite the low signal to noise ratio). But still it is a great source of tips, mostly from the lesser known folks so I will not name any names here. I really like the grass roots nature of this board, and dislike any guru labels.

I like Randy, I think most people who know me know that. Like many of you, I've met Randy.

However, as Merry explained about my statement with regards to Lies>

Either Dan or Randy Lied to us. Since they each told us different things about the same subject. This I don't like, I think we deserved better.

And Doc, You're a friend and when we get together we always have fun. But, if you arent going to call "One person from Inside Flyer saying everuone registered was an invited and anothe telling us that only a few were selected" this a lie what would you call it? Clintonese?

It also seemed that we didnt hear from anyone at Inside Flyer until the firestorm brewed here at FT.

To me the reaction afterwards, or lack thereof, was worse than the chat session.
The chat session problem was largely poor planning and technical problems.

The aftermath was delay, misleading, and just palin insulting to one's intelligence.

Maybe someday we'll find out if Dan or Randy were straight with us?

Dan or Randy, either of you care to help answer that one?

Hey DOC,

You started this thread with a question.

What is your (clear) opinion?

Dorian



------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

"Either Dan or Randy Lied to us. Since they each told us different things about the same subject. This I don't like, I think we deserved better.

And Doc, You're a friend and when we get together we always have fun. But, if you arent going to call "One person from Inside Flyer saying everuone registered was an invited and anothe telling us that only a few were selected" this a lie what would you call it? Clintonese?

It also seemed that we didnt hear from anyone at Inside Flyer until the firestorm brewed here at FT.

To me the reaction afterwards, or lack thereof, was worse than the chat session.
The chat session problem was largely poor planning and technical problems."

Boomer- I essentially agree with what you're saying here, as I'd noted above by saying you'd (& others) raised interesting points.

Perhaps it bears repeating:

This was an unfortunate situation for ALL those involved.

Yet, a case of miscommunication, which is apparently what transpired, is not necessarily a lie. I do not think it was purposeful or done to achieve any unwarranted gain.

Randy, IMHO, could/should have initially made a statement either at the chat and or in the post chat buzz in respone to queries regarding his identity. Why he did not, I do not know! Perhaps he was, (and I do not as you know speak for him), extremely preoccupied on his end and did not even read the queries coming in!

A statement immediately following would have been the next best bet and would have enabled others such as myself to be more responsive to those who had asked me about the identity crisis!

Could their have been better and more timely communication within the FT administration ranks and also to we FT'ers? YES!

Is their a commercial aspect to the boards? SURELY!

FWIW, I too am/was very troubled by this and am concerned that it was NOT very "healthy" for the future of FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

All I'm saying is, 1) let's please cut some slack and be forgiving here; 2)let's perhaps assume it was unfortunate MISCOMMUNICATION between Dan and Randy, as well as some further untimely MISCOMMUNICATION to we FTer's - as opposed to a premediatated plan to willfully deceive us or gain unrightfully on their part at our expense; 3) put it behind us with the understanding that this will NOT happen again; 4) Accept the good faith apologies that were already offered to us and go ahead in a positive manner- ALL the more wiser folks from it all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Clintonese?

Well it's close perhaps, but I'd hope not! It's the House of Miles and not the White House! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Human beings make mistakes! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Having said all this, any further clarification would surely be most welcome insofar as I too am concerned, in that it may help to make us ALL more comfortable and help clear the air! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm just kinda' thankful that it was not me stuck up there in the "muck" of this situation. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Would I have handled it differently? YES, I would surely think so!

Yet I'm willing, however, to forgive and forget! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hoping this clarifies matters-

Mark

Let's all cash in some miles, get a free plane ticket, fly away and get a life. How many days ago was the chat? And you guys are still beating it to death.

Here, here...get a LIFE!